Lead poisoning

[Cosmoline]

I should be more specific. The risk I'm seeing comes from handling the lead, mashing the ball into the barrel, blowing down the barrel, etc. I think just avoiding drink or food during the process would resolve this.

 

[jbkebert]

It was said ealier that you could ingest lead and it would pass through you before much damage could be done. This is true the reason that lead shot is banned for most waterfowl hunting is that birds have a gizzard. They east small pebbles and such to grind up thier food. This act of grinding will powderize some of the lead they eat off the bottom of the lake. This powder can be absorb into the blood stream and cause lead poisoning. A solid chunk of lead cannot be absorb and will pass through it might not be pleasant but it wont kill you.

 

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

Mr. MyKeal, no one is going to present you with any data. Not any legitimate data anyway, because it dosen't exist. Not in real life for sure....

 

[BlackNet]

Everyone is forgetting to realize that adults and children are vastly different. In a healthy adult the rate lead is absorbed into the body is under 10%, in children it's much higher, close to 50%. Same holds true for eating.

However, prolonged consumption will cause problems in adults as well, see the roman empire and it's consumption of lead.

As for the nitrates goes yes if you eat hotdogs and icecream every day loaded with nitrates and all that other junk you would be in for a short lifespan, will it kill you immediately? No. Will it cause you to have a short life span? Yes.

As for the original posters question.

Hey guys...Just a simple question here....Ya think its possible to get lead poisoning from a few round balls just sittin around, and not encased? I know the basics...washing hands after handling...etc etc...Just wondern if a few balls layin around on a bench could be throwin poison out??

The answer is likely no change of poison from that.

 

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

"see the roman empire and it's comsumption of lead"(post 29)....Hmmm...I was under the distinct impression that in addition to becoming a glutinous and drunken and immoral society that the Roman Empire collasped and fell because a certain being came to earth and the rest is history. Don't seem to recall ever reading or hearing anything in any book whatsoever about them dying or falling out of power from eating fried lead and scrambled eggs for breakfast....

 

[BlackNet]

http://www.nytimes.com/1983/03/17/us/roman-empire-s-fall-is-linked-with-gout-and-lead-poisoning.html

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/encyclopaedia_romana/wine/leadpoisoning.html

these both are related to rome, seems the link is very hotly debated and that is not why i brought it up. I did recall some history channel show I wanted years ago talk about them using lead cups and they had numerous medical problems because of that and other things.

 

[Cosmoline]

It was said ealier that you could ingest lead and it would pass through you before much damage could be done.

That's an intact lead ball in an animal, though. I'm talking about the lead residue on your fingers, smeared on the barrel, etc. Muzzleloading gets messy, as we all know. Or maybe it's just me ;-)

I'm also not sure what the burned BP itself does to you. It's pretty acrid on the tongue.

Don't seem to recall ever reading or hearing anything in any book whatsoever about them dying or falling out pf powder from eating fried lead and scrambled eggs for breakfast....

The Roman empire didn't fall because of lead consumption, but there's no question that using soft lead for eating vessels is an exceptionally stupid idea. It was a moot point for most of them due to their short lifespans. For us, living into our 80's or longer, the buildup of lead is a bigger concern.

that the Roman Empire collasped and fell because a certain being came to earth and the rest is history.

Not to get OT too much, but the Roman Empire eventually converted to Christianity. Gibbon blamed that fact for its ultimate demise. Of course Christian Byzantium continued to reign over the east for many centuries and lingered until the Turks finally finished it off.

 

[Snaggletooth]

Im not trying to be a smart ass but if your fear is so great, dont shoot black powder and get rid of the balls that are so upsetting. Personally, Ive handled lead all my life and have suffered no ill effects that I can see. Nothing is worth the fear that you experience.

 

[Wildfire]

Wow again.

Oh how these subjects can get twisted...
Rome ? It is a well known fact that Rome fell just as was stated. Moral decay.

Again I will restate the FACT that for many , many years ALL city water systems were using and some are still not converted. LEAD PIPES.....
Your water flowed through real lead pipes. No one died from it.
Hot Dogs and Ice creamed has never killed anyone yet either.
Simple facts. The EPA and other Government agencies have had their way with us for many years and have brain washed so many into believing so much crap.

9 years in a row now we have set record cold temps and yet we are in a Global warming end of all ends. But then again if not for that national hero we would not have this wonderful internet now would we. ???????

By the way Hot Dogs and Ice cream have over 1000 PPM nitrates each. 10 PPM in a water well seems just a tad on the crazy side. Do your research and you will find that it is the banks that require the water well to meet the 10 PPM count before they will loan money on the new house and well.
If you pay cash for a new well at your already lived in home it is OK, just fine and your choice.

We have used Aluminum pots and pans , cups and bowls for years also. Check that out and you will also find warnings against that now too.

 

[4v50 Gary]

I think lead, when handled properly, poses no threat. I'm more worried about two legged threats than lead.

 

[missuramoss]

Hey...appreciate the replies fellas...I wasnt "stressed", or "worrying" about gettin lead poison from a few balls sittin on my bench...I just began to wonder one mornin if possibly lead vapors could be emitted from them, and me bein right by them, could I be breathin those vapors in...thats all..Thanks again!!

 

[bigbadgun]

Lead poisoning hmm thats what the bad guys get isent it?

 

[pohill]

A few years ago I redid a bedroom in my house (built in 1892). I tore up the pine floors and in the sub-floor was a channel with a lead pipe in it. It went from wall to wall, about 15', and had been cut off at both ends. It was an old water pipe to the bathroom. Soft enough to tie in knots. It weighed 30 lbs. I got alot of roundballs form that pipe.
Everytime I get bloodwork done I ask for a lead test and fo sar go sood....I mean so far so...something.

The Pipe.

 

[BHP FAN]

I have about three hundred pounds,some of it soft,some wheel weight,some scrap. I figure it'll last a least a coupla years in my .45-70.

 

[alemonkey]

One of the guys I shoot with who is an active BPCR competitor scored a few tons of pure lead when they re-roofed the state capital a few years ago. He has enough to last several lifetimes, even at 500+ grains a shot. It's all sitting in big pile in his garage. It's a glorious sight.

I've tossed around the idea of setting up an air gun range in my basement, but I have a 5 year old daughter so I'm a little concerned about lead particles being emitted when the pellets hit the trap. I've heard of using duct seal to catch the pellets, so I'm thinking it would prevent the release of lead particles since it's a soft clay-like substance.

I think the #1 thing you can do is to not eat, drink, or smoke while shooting, and wash your hands with COLD water after you're done.

 

[arcticap]

I use a conventional steel .22 trap for shooting pellets indoors.
The front is sealed up with tape and paperboard to help contain the lead spatter.
I know folks that use the duct seal putty to capture pellets fired at lower target velocities and it's effective but then the lead can't be easily reused for casting.
I don't know how well the putty works with higher velocity pellet guns.

 

[JohnKSa]

I've still seen no data showing how much lead exposure there is from shooting.

What do you mean? Are you asking if shooters are actually exposed to lead or are you asking how many shooters have problems as a result of lead exposure? Or something else entirely.

Shooters are exposed to lead while shooting. There was a study done awhile back (in Australia?) that showed that primer compounds from the discharge of firearms was the main way that lead got into the bloodstream from shooting. In other words, the vaporized lead off the back of the bullet and lead dust didn't seem to result in as much exposure.

I don't believe that the study determined if the primer residue was inhaled or ingested.

Determining how many shooters have problems as a result of lead exposure would require the cooperation of a large number of shooters. You'd have to get a large population of shooters to agree to be surveyed about their shooting activities and then to submit to blood tests. Maybe the military has done such a study but if they have they haven't published the results. It shouldn't be hard to understand why no else one has been able to do such a study on any decent scale.

I believe you can easily find information relating to elevated blood lead levels in indoor shooting range employees. I'm not sure that's exactly what you want but it probably speaks to the general issue. Here's an example.

http://www.uniquetek.com/site/696296/uploaded/Getting_The_Lead_Out_In_Alaska.pdf

Here's something that may answer some of your questions but it's based on a very small number of study participants.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...serid=10&md5=2304d57f5e6f1af1b7392d123530c063

 

[mykeal]

What do you mean? Are you asking if shooters are actually exposed to lead or are you asking how many shooters have problems as a result of lead exposure? Or something else entirely.

I take it for granted shooters are exposed to lead. I want to see the numbers.

What is the measured amount of lead exposure from shooting? From dust or particles on the floor or in the air or any source. Numbers. Real, honest to goodness data, measured by competent, trained technicians using calibrated instruments and a scientific process. Expressed in milligrams per cubic meter or any other metric that's convenient. Compared to levels accepted by the medical community as being a health risk. Something other than hyperbolic adjectives. What is the real danger?

Your reference to the article about a range in Alaska provides no data. It's simply an anecdote about action taken as a result of concern that a problem existed. The only information about actual measured levels was a statement that they were 'higher than normal' (whatever that means) and 'well below the danger standard set by the Occupational
Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) for the work place'.

The reference to the German article provides an abstract that contains data showing range personnel had measured blood levels that 'exceeded the German general population', but as far as I can tell did not approach levels considered a health risk; there is no comparison with levels considered dangerous by a government entity. The same goes for the single airborne particle data point provided. This is in spite of a title claiming a health risk for marksmen. I note that it costs $31.50 to obtain the full article; we don't charge people for data about health risks here in the US.

I don't think this is so hard to do. If there is a genuine problem, somebody must have measured data showing what the exposure levels are compared to levels considered dangerous by health authorities responsible for making such decisions. So far, what I'm getting are 'concerns'.

I'm beginning to suspect, as GoTC says, it doesn't exist. I'm not yet convinced of that, but it's getting there.

 

[madcratebuilder]

Im 77. As a kid, I had lead "BB" s. We kept them in our mouth to spit one down the bore of a single shot Daisy air rifle. I had a pocket full of lead sinkers all summer long.. I lived in an area where lead was mined and played with lead soldiers and toys. lived in houses with lead paint on them. Im paying for it now. When I sit down and get my butt below my knees, its hard to get up. I know where all the lead went.

Same here, all that lead has really screwed my center of gravity.

How many times did you clamp your lead sinkers with your teeth?

 

[Hellgate]

Years ago the NRA published a study of lead exposure in bullet casters. I believe they were commercial casters. What I remember from the study is those who smoked or handled food while casting were the most exposed. Good ventilation, not eating or smoking while handling lead, and washing your hands afterwards prevented significant exposure from casting.

 

[Black Toe Knives]

I had a 8 point Buck die from lead poison from a .54 Bullets I made. I know I do not make bullets in my shop at all. I make them outside.

 

[hso]

As the very first reply said, nope, lead shot/balls/bullets or ingots won't emit vapors unless heated (and this is the sort of thing I do for a living).

As to lead exposure to shooters, just search any of the discussions on this in General. The short version is that lead exposure to shooters can occur, but usually is related to indoor range staff or shooters that spend frequent long periods of time on active indoor ranges. Good ventilation and good hygiene are all that's needed to prevent elevated blood lead levels.

 

[missuramoss]

Black Toe Knives.....how did ya find out that buck died from lead poison??

 

[alemonkey]

lead shot/balls/bullets or ingots won't emit vapors unless heated

My understanding is lead vapors won't be emitted unless you get it extremely hot, well beyond normal casting temps. Is that true?

 

[mustang_steve]

Maybe if you made your own lead balls, as in the metling process, you'd have the risk of vapor inhalation and the joys of working on a leaded surface.

Shooting it, nope.

For fun, look into the way professional soldering benches are set-up....as in for a production environment. They work with lead amongst other substances day in and day out....they have some pretty extreme, but very effective processes in place to minimize risk to the workers.