The reason commercial casters use hard alloys is to keep all the bullets nice through shipping, where they bang against eachother and deform. There is no reason to use that hard of a bullet. Missouri's 12 BHN bullets are hard enough for any handgun application short of the 454 Cassul at full throttle.
Leading With Hard Cast Bullets
- Thread starter hinton03
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LiveLife
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USPS workers sure do "rough handle" the shipping boxes as they often arrive with tears/rips on the outer boxes and inner MBC blue boxes often arrive dented at the corners. Even with the cross-country semi-truck journey to the west coast from Missouri, these are how the MBC 12 BHN Bullseye #1/#2 look compared to 18 BHN IDP #1 when they arrive at my door steps. The heavy plastic bag Missouri Bullet uses to contain any box tears/bullet spiils seems to do a good job as I have not had any bullet spillage/loss.
Here's close up of bullets. They were pulled straight from the boxes and slight roughness you see on the bullet surfaces are extra lube particles.
Bullet surfaces after extra lube particles were wiped showing not too much dimpling or damage done to the bullets during cross-country transport.
Here's close up of bullets. They were pulled straight from the boxes and slight roughness you see on the bullet surfaces are extra lube particles.
Bullet surfaces after extra lube particles were wiped showing not too much dimpling or damage done to the bullets during cross-country transport.
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dardascastbullets
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You can make your own (extremely accurate) hardness tester from a steel ball bearing. I reference 'Cast Bullets' by Col. E.H. Harrison USA (ret.). The article is on pages 29 & 30. The book is published by the National Rifle Association and the Library of Congress Catalog Number is: 79-89301. I will highly recommend this book to all that want to and are shooting cast bullets.
BDS,
When you compare the appearance of Missouri's 12 BHN bullets to LaseCast, there is no contest. LaserCast look like they were machined on a lathe out of stainless steel, then beadblasted with fine grit glass. They are much more presentable (pretty to look at).
I prefer Missouri, though, because they are more gun friendly and accurate with the pooh butt loads I use.
When you compare the appearance of Missouri's 12 BHN bullets to LaseCast, there is no contest. LaserCast look like they were machined on a lathe out of stainless steel, then beadblasted with fine grit glass. They are much more presentable (pretty to look at).
I prefer Missouri, though, because they are more gun friendly and accurate with the pooh butt loads I use.
Metal Tiger
Member
Just wanted to second the recommendation to have a look at the Los Angeles Silhouette Club web site. Sepcifically the page on cast bullets here:
http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm
I spent an afternoon last week reading through a lot of good info there. They talk a lot about the hardness of lead and the formulations to get there. Great stuff.
Thanks dbs for your postings here on this thread and to all the others. I have to say for a little lurking and snooping around will yeld tons of great information. Thanks guys. You all "ROCK".
http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm
I spent an afternoon last week reading through a lot of good info there. They talk a lot about the hardness of lead and the formulations to get there. Great stuff.
Thanks dbs for your postings here on this thread and to all the others. I have to say for a little lurking and snooping around will yeld tons of great information. Thanks guys. You all "ROCK".
LiveLife
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918v, appearance of bullets is one thing but I am a subscriber of "Holes on target speak volumes" and "Accuracy is everything".
I have shot mostly 20-24 BHN cast bullets for many years and while I could push them faster, experienced leading below max load data. At mid-to-high range load data, accuracy suffered.
With Missouri Bullet's 12/18 BHN bullets, I like having the flexibility of using mid-to-high range load data for most of my lead loads as they are loaded to lighter target velocities but still produce accurate shot groups (A good example is 200 gr SWC with 5.0 gr of W231/HP-38). Even using faster burning powders like W231/HP-38/Promo at lighter target loads, I do not experience leading with .355", .400" and .451" groove diameter barrels. With 12 BHN 45ACP bullets, even in oversized PT145 barrel (.455"), I can shoot the same .452" sized bullets with lighter target loads and I do not get leading - makes it simpler to keep the same load for all of my 45 pistols.
I am currently testing 40S&W lead bullets in Glock factory/Lone Wolf barrels and don't plan on doing much shooting at max load data. For me, being able to shoot lower pressure mid-to-high range load data target loads in higher pressure 40S&W is an extra insurance for those that have pressure concerns using range brass that's been reloaded multiple times.
I have shot mostly 20-24 BHN cast bullets for many years and while I could push them faster, experienced leading below max load data. At mid-to-high range load data, accuracy suffered.
With Missouri Bullet's 12/18 BHN bullets, I like having the flexibility of using mid-to-high range load data for most of my lead loads as they are loaded to lighter target velocities but still produce accurate shot groups (A good example is 200 gr SWC with 5.0 gr of W231/HP-38). Even using faster burning powders like W231/HP-38/Promo at lighter target loads, I do not experience leading with .355", .400" and .451" groove diameter barrels. With 12 BHN 45ACP bullets, even in oversized PT145 barrel (.455"), I can shoot the same .452" sized bullets with lighter target loads and I do not get leading - makes it simpler to keep the same load for all of my 45 pistols.
I am currently testing 40S&W lead bullets in Glock factory/Lone Wolf barrels and don't plan on doing much shooting at max load data. For me, being able to shoot lower pressure mid-to-high range load data target loads in higher pressure 40S&W is an extra insurance for those that have pressure concerns using range brass that's been reloaded multiple times.
In my experience, proper bullet to throat fit is much more important than worrying about what BHN can be assigned to the bullet. For revolvers, measure the cylinder throat (pin guages or slugging is best. can't get accurate measurements with calipers) and size/shoot bullets the same size. Example; my Ruger has .431" cylinder throats and a .429" groove diameter. I size my bullets to .431" and have virtually no leading with wheel weight alloy throughout "Special - Magnum" load pressures. Same with my Dan Wesson (.430" throats/.430" bullets) and my S&W 629 (.430" throats/.430" bullets)
dardascastbullets
Member
In addition to the document that I previously mentioned, I will also highly recommend 'The Art of Bullet Casting' from Handloader & Rifle Magazines (1966-1981). The ISBN # is:0-935632-07-7 (Hardbound) or #0-935632-08-5 (Softbound).
LiveLife
Member
I agree that proper bullet-to-barrel fit trumps BHN, but for my PT145 situation, where could I get .456"-.457" sized 45 bullets?
After some thought, a simpler solution of using softer 12 BHN bullet sized at .452" was the answer for me as my M&P45 and Sig 1911 have .451" groove diameter barrels. Now, I can shoot the same loads in all the pistols and not experience leading and not contend with different sized bullets.
If you have various regular and oversized factory/aftermarket barreled pistols (and many factory barrels are oversized), using lower BHN will allow you to use the same loads without having to adjust sizing of bullets. Missouri Bullet even offers 9mm 147 gr bullet in 15 BHN.
For shooters who have oversized barrels and want to shoot plated bullets, instead of Rainier bullets that are sized same as jacketed bullets; I point them to Berry's bullets that are sized similar to lead bullets. X-Treme bullets offer 9mm bullets sized at .355"/.356"/.357" and 45ACP bullets sized at .451"/.452".
After some thought, a simpler solution of using softer 12 BHN bullet sized at .452" was the answer for me as my M&P45 and Sig 1911 have .451" groove diameter barrels. Now, I can shoot the same loads in all the pistols and not experience leading and not contend with different sized bullets.
If you have various regular and oversized factory/aftermarket barreled pistols (and many factory barrels are oversized), using lower BHN will allow you to use the same loads without having to adjust sizing of bullets. Missouri Bullet even offers 9mm 147 gr bullet in 15 BHN.
For shooters who have oversized barrels and want to shoot plated bullets, instead of Rainier bullets that are sized same as jacketed bullets; I point them to Berry's bullets that are sized similar to lead bullets. X-Treme bullets offer 9mm bullets sized at .355"/.356"/.357" and 45ACP bullets sized at .451"/.452".
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Proper fit has fixed most (all) of my leading problems. ANY BHN bullet too small will lead the throats and barrel. I haven't experienced it yet but, bullets, of any BHN, larger than the throats can cause leading in the throats. My lead inventory consists of lead from BHN 6-8, to about BHN 18-20, and some lynotye I've not tested, and for my Magnums I've cast/shot bullets of all these BHN hardnesses and the only ones to fail are the improperly sized for my guns (usually too small).
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