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Learned something new on xmas eve about CCW...

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics, and Training' started by FL-NC, Dec 27, 2018.

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  1. FL-NC

    FL-NC Member

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    Went with the family on Xmas eve to an upscale restaurant. Actually, a world famous upscale restaurant, where you wear coat/tie. Now we are in 2 situations that are unfamiliar to me- an upscale restaurant AND a suit. As in almost all situations, I am CCW my S&W shield 9. Several months ago I switched from SOB cary to a thumb break pancake style, in order to improve access and presentation time. My son informed me that because of the slots (or whatever they are called) in the bottom of a suit jacket, that it is very easy to CCW in this fashion, sit down, eat dinner, get up, and find that you are now open carrying. The obvious solution moving forward (to me) is to continue to wear my unbuttoned carhart work shirt or flannel shirt, and in the future "dine" at waffle house. What I am looking for is the strategy ( or tactic) to explain this to my wife.
     
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  2. Spats McGee

    Spats McGee Moderator Staff Member

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    I wear suits, and CC in them, more often than most. I often CC a Shield 9 in either a DeSantis Speed Scabbard (OWB) or a Stealth Gear Revolution (IWB) at about 4:00. Some ideas: (1) Straighten the bottom hem of your jacket as you stand up. A quick flick of the wrist will put the jacket back in place over your gun. (2) Go with a tuckable holster. Even with my SGR, I don't typically tuck my shirt over the gun, but it is an option. (3) If possible, get seated so that your CC is in a corner, so that even if you do accidentally open carry, nobody will see it.

    I had an untucked but buttoned shirt ride up at IHOP one time, causing me to OC, too. I wondered why the folks at the next table kept staring at me....

    And we wish you the best of luck with that. I've had no luck with it, myself. My wife likes to go out to nice places and wear nice clothes to dinner. I like to carry a pistol. We've just had to make both work.
     
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  3. Sebastian the Ibis
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    Sebastian the Ibis Member

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    Try to find single vented suit jackets. Unfortunately double vents are trendy now, and they are perfectly positioned to expose you. Also, go with a tuckable holster. Usually places that require suits are not places that require an extra half second on the draw to deal with a rabid junk yard dog.
     
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  4. Spats McGee

    Spats McGee Moderator Staff Member

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    A good point.
     
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  5. cheygriz

    cheygriz member

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    I wear suits, or blazers, often. I wear a Galco shoulder rig for my SIG P226 or Glock 17.

    Perfect concealment, and fast draw from any position, even seated.:thumbup:
     
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  6. Mizar

    Mizar Member

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    Just get a quality tuckable holster and be done with it - I carry a full sized pistol with a double vented jacket with no problems.

    P.S. There is really no excuse for a grown up man to not dress formal - you are just searching for reasons not to.
     
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  7. herrwalther

    herrwalther Member

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    I use a holster that can be tucked around a dress shirt for IWB carry. I rarely wear suits and when I do, I don't wear a jacket with them. It is already too hot in Alabama to have a jacket over a dress shirt and undershirt. Even with a tuck able holster you have the tell tale sign of typically seeing the hooks of the holster poking out to go around your belt. A holster company I use has hooks that hide behind a belt.

    https://www.whitehatholsters.com/velcro-brand-fastener-clips/
     
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  8. edwardware

    edwardware Member

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    Single-vent helps, and your tailor might help too. Mine knows me now. . . after adjusting fit and lining my favorite jacket against the rough butt of my 1911.
     
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  9. Sarge7402

    Sarge7402 Member

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    Shoulder rigs may be a tad slower, but have some benefits not found in belts. Like Abe Vigoda on Barney Miller the older one gets the more likely you are to have to take a dump. Bad news for a belt rig. NBFD for a sholder rig
     
  10. Armored farmer

    Armored farmer Member

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    On the contrary......I find carry in a sport coat much simpler than any other time.
    Owb
    20180415_114726.jpg
    or iwb
     
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  11. labnoti

    labnoti Member

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    Lots of options here. I agree there's no excuse not to be flexible in the wardrobe. An ankle holster works in any situation with long trousers. If you're wearing a suit coat, a shoulder holster is ideal, but there are plenty of waistband options that sport-coat wearing detectives, executive protectors and other professionals have proven over many decades. Doesn't James Bond almost always wear a suit?
     
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  12. Blkhrt13

    Blkhrt13 Member

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    Just make or buy one of these. If it was good enough for Sean Connery....
     

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  13. FL-NC

    FL-NC Member

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    Vents, huh? That's what they are called. Learned something else.
     
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  14. FL-NC

    FL-NC Member

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    Sure there is- First off, I don't like to, and second, if I'm dressing formal to eat, it means I'm about to spend WAY too much on dinner, which as we all know, the next day will just be... well, we know. To each his own, I guess.
     
  15. Good Ol' Boy

    Good Ol' Boy Member

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    As I have come to hate IWB I would think a shoulder rig would suit me, and anyone else who might be worried about a OWB set up being exposed with formal dress.

    If you like IWB then that's an option too.

    Aren't options great...
     
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  16. Hangingrock

    Hangingrock Member

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    The problem with concealment is the overly nourished carrier with ill fitting clothing. Not all, but a relatively high percentage of people are not in reasonably in good physical condition for their age group. The adage of fat-dumb & lazy applies.
     
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  17. Mauser lover

    Mauser lover Member

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    I agree with you about the expensive restaurants. Well... kinda. I pretty much despise eating out at all. And no, like you, I haven't convinced my wife yet.

    If I were you, which I'm not, but if I were, and I were required to wear a suit or jacket that would make me open carry when sitting, I would wear an IWB holster with my shirt tucked in behind the holster (not over the holster). For me, this is just as fast and comfortable as an OWB, but the bottom half of the gun is hidden even when the jacket might ride up.

    Fortunately for me, my wife's favorite restaurant is Arby's. Sorry, I have no help for you in convincing your wife that Waffle House is superior to upscale places.
     
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  18. LRDGCO

    LRDGCO member

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    A chaque, son gout.

    I have worn a suit or blazer to work every day since I was 23, and frequently do so in the evening or at the weekend. The double, or "saddle" vent is an anachronistic affectation as it originated from the days when it allowed one's jacket to drape better when sitting in a saddle. If one often wears a suitcoat or blazer while ahorse, I commend you sartorial excellence, however, maintaining concealment at that point raises other issues.

    The various shoulder rigs originated in the days when every male, every day wore a jacket. They also tended to be double breasted and therefore easier to maintain concealment. If, unlike me, you find a shoulder rig comfortable and can keep you jacket buttoned, that is one solution. I have a friend with an apparent Bond delusion who has had an, in my eyes, bulky and insecure " holster pocket" tailored into his jackets and carries the de rigeur PPK in it. It seems silly and of minimal use to me. I have carried with a horizontal holster in the small of my back. I found it painful, bordering on useless, and prone to uncover. As per those who have suggested it above, a tuckable holster is the best compromise.

    On the other hand, flannels, carharts, and the Waffle House seems like a perfectly reasonable plan to me and has much to recommend itself. Happy New Year!
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2018
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  19. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator Staff Member

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    A sport coat or suit coat make CCW extremely easy, you just have to understand how to move correctly when so dressed.

    As already pointed out a single vent coat will be more accommodating than a double vent one.
    Learning to blouse the tail of the coat, after unbuttoning, before sitting keeps it from being pushed up.
    Sweeping the front of the coat slightly open when standing allows it to drape correctly over your gun/holster.

    To make all the above easier would be to have the coat cut correctly when fitted/made
     
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  20. Old Dog

    Old Dog Member

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    Having worked a bit for employers requiring "business dress" (either suits or sport jacket, tie and slacks) I have found that I can pack the most ginormous pistol in my inventory OWB at 3:00 when dressed up ... the wife loves me when I take her to fancy restaurants, and I've never had a problem concealing any full-size or compact pistol with a single-vent or non-vented suit jacket or sport coat. My local Men's Warehouse has guys who know that men up here carry handguns, and are quite able to find the best accommodations for doing so. I think you'll find most purveyors of menswear are most helpful when it comes to assisting men with wardrobe to facilitate CCW (well, maybe not in Hawaii, NYC, NJ).
     
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  21. Spats McGee

    Spats McGee Moderator Staff Member

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    I should have thought about it in my initial post, but I'll join the chorus of folks that have mentioned having your coat tailored for CC. Whenever I buy a new suit or jacket, I just tell 'em I need it cut to carry a concealed pistol. In AR (& in many other states, I'm sure), this really isn't a big deal for the clothing store or tailor. They'll just fit the clothes with you carrying.
     
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  22. lemaymiami

    lemaymiami Member

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    I don't carry a sidearm today (and not for the past 23 years... not even once - but that was my choice... and I haven't regretted it ... yet....) but I did carry one for many years when I was a cop. Starting from scratch I think I've carried handguns every way possible - mostly concealed unless I was in uniform. I've found, like most, that some holster positions I just couldn't live with - particularly a shoulder rig (they look great but I never found one comfortable for more than a few minutes...) so... I eventually settled on two styles of carry. The first, either a paddle style holster or an inside the waistband holster (or just a plain inside waistband carry with no holster...). The second, and what I used for my last ten years was an ankle holster - and even carried my duty full sized .40 Sig in one off duty... I learned through experience that there was a lot of difference between carrying a small sidearm (usually a five shot Chief's special) and actually carrying a sidearm you could rely on in an armed confrontation... That's why I carried my duty weapon off duty... Thank heavens it was never fired on the street - but at least I was ready (and very likely to be a serious threat to anyone that thought I was not armed...).

    As for that coat and tie routine... I needed to have one for court appearances and rarely social engagements (I'm much more a casual type -a guayabera shirt and well presented trousers are as dressy as it gets if I have a choice in the matter...). I learned over time to simply buy a sport coat or suit coat in one size larger than needed. Yes, you look a bit "baggy" but you can carry a sidearm and not show a hint that it's there. If needed, you can also wear armor and not be showing. For a primer on concealed carry when well dressed watch the folks who guard our president. They're carrying at all times (maybe more than one weapon) and don't look particularly out of place (except for the active dead-eyed stare that comes with that kind of job...).

    Since I went back to fishing after I retired out (full time fishing guide now for almost 23 years...) I'm generally only wearing a t-shirt and shorts when I'm not on the water. I still have a nice suit for weddings and funerals but it might not come out of the closet for a year or two at a time...
     
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  23. FL-NC

    FL-NC Member

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    What this guy said
     
  24. Anchorite

    Anchorite Member

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    This is spot-on. Thank you, sir.
     
  25. Mizar

    Mizar Member

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    You know, "dressing up" is not only a fancy-restaurant/funeral/wedding sort of thing, but it's simply to show respect for you and those around you. And wearing a suit does not always have to mean that black/dark blue business style commotion almost everyone is imaging - hello guys, there are colors, fabrics, different styles... Just be creative.
    As for the fit - I'm a fat guy, 5.9 feet, 209 pounds (with all the regrets, excuses and etc.), but this is something I found to be pretty much universal: regular fit suit true size, regular fit shirt true size - just forget about "slim fit", no matter how well you think you look. Pair that with regular fit trousers, but a half to full size bigger. Now, get a decent tuckable holster. Don't worry, you'll get used to it... Shoulder holsters I find comfortable, but printing too much on the back and disturbing the line of the jacket.

    P.S. And please, PLEASE, do polish your shoes properly and forget about boots (cowboy, or whatever - just don't. It's repulsive.), snickers, casual shoes, or (God forbid) that abomination called "squared toe"... ;) Plain old Oxfords are fine, really!


    P.P.S. Can you tell that I'm wearing a Browning Hi-Power, spare magazine, pocket watch, pocket knife, a pipe bag and a tin of tobacco? I hope not...

    42317111-10217051338779681-1904935952757817344-n.jpg
     
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