Leaving an SBR at a friend's house?

[NELSONs02]

If it's locked in a safe and he has no key, he's not in possession.

So if his friend had a felony on his record it'd still be okay right? I mean he's not in possession right? I'm not the kind of guy who plays a 7-2 off suit and I sure as hell wouldn't count on the "rules" of possession holding up in court.

Like I said take it to a C3 dealer or ask least ask them what to do. I guarantee they wont tell you to put in safe and give it to your non-licensed buddy for four years.

 

[Hanzo581]

How would you prove the friend didn't know the combination?

 

[hirundo82]

And in that respect a C3 item left IN THE POSSESSION of a non-licensed civilian could cause major problems should something happen.

There's no license to possess "Class 3" (properly referred to as Title II) firearms. You just need the tax stamp for each gun you own.

"Class 3" refers to a Class 3 Special Occupational Taxpayer, which is a retail FFL with a special add-on to deal in NFA firearms.

So if his friend had a felony on his record it'd still be okay right? I mean he's not in possession right? I'm not the kind of guy who plays a 7-2 off suit and I sure as hell wouldn't count on the "rules" of possession holding up in court.

:banghead:

 

[nalioth]

If it's locked in a safe and he has no key, he's not in possession.

So if his friend had a felony on his record it'd still be okay right? I mean he's not in possession right? I'm not the kind of guy who plays a 7-2 off suit and I sure as hell wouldn't count on the "rules" of possession holding up in court.

Sure would.

Thousands of folks are in this situation daily, as many gun owners have SOs with felonies.

Some of us obviously haven't read the whole thread, because this has been addressed earlier here.

 

[NELSONs02]

There's no license to possess "Class 3" (properly referred to as Title II) firearms. You just need the tax stamp for each gun you own.

Thanks for clearing that up. So is there any difference between owning a Title II firearm and having possession of one in regard to needing or not needing a tax stamp? :banghead:

 

[kingpin008]

How would you prove the friend didn't know the combination?

That's not how the law works. If you're the cops and you're accusing me of a crime, the burden is on YOU to provide proof that I violated the law.

 

[Hanzo581]

That's not how the law works. If you're the cops and you're accusing me of a crime, the burden is on YOU to provide proof that I violated the law.

Welcome to America where you are guilty until proven innocent.

 

[NELSONs02]

The question in this circumstance would more so be about who has possession. A person can easily get into any gun safe if given enough time.

 

[nalioth]

The question in this circumstance would more so be about who has possession. A person can easily get into any gun safe if given enough time.

AH, now we're getting into "pre-crime".

Reality: If John leaves his MP5 in a locked safe at his neighbors while he rotates overseas and his neighbor forcibly opens the safe, it's not the responsibility of John, but "theft" on the part of the neighbor.

The neighbor could just as easily break into John's home to steal the MP5.

 

[NELSONs02]

AH, now we're getting into "pre-crime".

Reality: If John leaves his MP5 in a locked safe at his neighbors while he rotates overseas and his neighbor forcibly opens the safe, it's not the responsibility of John, but "theft" on the part of the neighbor.

The neighbor could just as easily break into John's home to steal the MP5.

Man, I don't know. Lets say someone broke into the neighbors home and that MP5 went missing or got used in a crime. Honestly I don't think the ATF would be signing any more papers for you if that happened.

I just don't understand why someone would want to put that kind of responsibility or liability on a friend.

Can you find a good reason why storing it at NFA item dealer wouldn't be a better idea?

 

[nalioth]

AH, now we're getting into "pre-crime".

Reality: If John leaves his MP5 in a locked safe at his neighbors while he rotates overseas and his neighbor forcibly opens the safe, it's not the responsibility of John, but "theft" on the part of the neighbor.

The neighbor could just as easily break into John's home to steal the MP5.

Man, I don't know. Lets say someone broke into the neighbors home and that MP5 went missing or got used in a crime. It's a stretch but honestly I don't think the ATF would be signing any more papers for you if that happened.

I just don't understand why someone would want to put that kind of responsibility or liability on a friend.

Can you find a good reason why storing it a NFA item dealer wouldn't be a good idea?

Give it up, Mr., cuz you're grasping at straws.

What keeps the C3 dealer from being robbed while John's MP5 is in his possession?

Not that it matters - an NFA dealer can't have possession of it, either, unless it's on his books.

 

[NELSONs02]

Give it up, Mr., cuz you're grasping at straws.

What keeps the C3 dealer from being robbed while John's MP5 is in his possession?

Not that it matters - an NFA dealer can't have possession of it, either, unless it's on his books.

Yeah that's what I'm talking about. Paying a "C3" dealer or whatever you want to call it to "keep it on his books". Obvisouly they wouldn't do for free.

How is that not the best and safest option? Mr.....

 

[nalioth]

How is that the best and safest option? Mr.....

I think you need to review this thread.

I'm not the one that brought up 'storing it at an NFA dealer'.

 

[NELSONs02]

I think you need to review this thread.

I'm not the one that brought up 'storing it at an NFA dealer'.

I met to say "How is that NOT the best and safest option"

And I don't think I'm "grasping at straws" either. A complete stranger trying to take the weapon would be more realistic then a friend or trusted neighbor trying to take it.

 

[paul]

I would do it, providing that your friend does not have access to the contents of the safe.

p

 

[hirundo82]

So is there any difference between owning a Title II firearm and having possession of one in regard to needing or not needing a tax stamp?

Owning a Title II firearm without a tax stamp isn't illegal--plenty of people do every day. It is just illegal to possess it without the tax stamp, which is why the dealer holds onto it until the stamp arrives.

 

[Mags]

Can you find a good reason why storing it at NFA item dealer wouldn't be a better idea?

Let's say I'm lucky and the dealer only charges me 20 bucks a month to store the SBR, thats 240 bucks a year x 4 which = 960 dollars which is about how much a complete SBR costs minus the stamp. Definetly not worth it. The local class 3 sure as hell ain't going to do it for free. Also what's to say the class 3 dealer is still going to be in business in 4 years? I also bet I would be very lucky if they would only charge me 20 bucks a month.

 

[Sam1911]

A complete stranger trying to take the weapon would be more realistic then a friend or trusted neighbor trying to take it.

But, to put a fine point on it, this isn't Mags' problem. If his friend agrees to keep a locked safe that he doesn't have the key to, and at some point down the road he decides to break into it and take illegal possession of the gun, Mags' friend is completely at fault and liable to be prosecuted. If Mags has the keys and no evidence can be produced to indicate that the buddy was encouraged or enabled by Mags to take active possession, I fail to see where the risk lies.

If I was planning this kind of thing, I figure I'd only do so with someone who's character I respected enough to trust that they wouldn't do such an illegal and unethical thing.

Of course, as the ATF has clearly said, if he removed the short barreled upper (maybe stick it in a safe deposit box, or just sell it), he could give or loan, (even sell, etc.) the receiver to his pal with no problems whatsoever. If his buddy wanted to put a 16"+ barrel on it, he could shoot it every day without running afoul of the law. (As long as the buddy did not also possess a short barreled upper, himself.) Then Mags could return, retrieve his (or buy a new) short-barrel, and install that without having to re-register the weapon.

About half of the ATF's Short-Barreled Rifle FAQ is devoted to this type of question: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-short-barreled-rifles-shotguns.html

It doesn't have to be removed from the registry, and doesn't have to be re-registered, and while it is not in SBR configuration, his buddy can be in legal posession of it for all lawful purposes -- "win--win!"

 

[TexasRifleman]

Gone on far enough when it gets to bickering.

The correct answer it seems is, since there is time before OP leaves the country, to write ATF and ask them

a) If it's locked in a safe at the friends house is that OK or

b) If it doesn't have a short barrel on it can it be possessed as a Title 1 firearm temporarily

An in writing opinion from them is about as good an answer as you will get. The real answer would come from a jury and the whole idea is to avoid that one of course.