Lectured by a cop at airport for carrying HP ammo

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Matt Payne,

Your right the FAA regs are not classified, but the TSA SOP is which is our guide on everything. Now I use the word guide because a TSA agent does have the right to interfere with anything they choose. That is my point, if a agent wants to confiscate the shoes off of your feet because they are suspicious to him then he can without having to give nor make any excuses. Call me a Jackbooted Thug all you want, I was just trying to give advice that would make peoples lives a little easier going through a check point. Apparently you have no problem with others that are giving completely wrong advice on this thread but I do. If you were a trained professional on a subject that people were handing out completely bad advice on don't you think you would step in and try to correct and clear up some issues. Calling me insults is not taking THR but trying to help people when you have no obligation to help them is. One more thing, don't ever accuse someone of doing something illegal when you have no idea of what you are talking about.


To the Moderators: I am sorry if this thread is starting to look like a flame war, but I am simply responding to insults given by Mr. Payne. I also don't appreciate being accused of illegal acts when the accuser has no idea of the authority or internal laws that govern the TSA. I also have another TSA agent with me right now who would also like to state that he does not appreciate the comments made by members here on THR about things that they have no idea about.
 
Please keep this thread polite--

Hawkeye--

I agree with you. I certainly didn't feel that the agent in my case was taking my ammo for his own use, or stealing it in any way.

However, the letter that I started to write turned into something quite different once I found how much power the TSA has over all of us. I certainly didn't know that just taking a securely locked gun or ammo to the airport could result in confiscation or arrest, with no stated right to appeal a decision made by any agent or LEO.

And I'm sure that in most cases there would be no problem, but what alarms me greatly is that IF you got one of the (hopefully very few) crooked TSA agents, there's nothing you could do about it. Security concerns seem to override everything.

I do appreciate the comments made by crewchief, and I'll certainly try to abide by the written rules & regulations (and the secret ones too, if I can find out what they are) but IMHO what crewchief just said,

Now I use the word guide because a TSA agent does have the right to interfere with anything they choose. That is my point, if a agent wants to confiscate the shoes off of your feet because they are suspicious to him then he can without having to give nor make any excuses.
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proves that my concern is justified. I only hope that others in the TSA are honest, (as I believe crewchief to be) but there's no way to be sure of that, is there. So any agent can confiscate anything he or she chooses, with no accountability. Is that correct, crewchief?

Esky
who is not planning any airplane trips carrying anything valuable
 
Esky, I understand what you are saying. You have a legit point, as far as it goes. My point concerned only the suggestion of theft when, in my and your cases, we were merely denied the ability to check something. I know it amounts to losing it, but that's only because we chose to proceed rather than taking our stuff back and leaving the airport. We are always free to rent a car to travel from Orlando to Huston. Not that I agree with all TSA regs, but do you see my point?
 
Kinda hard for me to get to Germany to see my son without flying. And, at my age, the odds are against my going to Africa for a hunt--not that I've ever worried about that.

But when Joe Foss' Medal of Honor was taken from him at the Phoenix airport because "it had sharp points on it", which an 83-year-old man could have used to hurt somebody, I figured the inmates had taken over the asylum.

It's a philosophical thing: I won't fly unless I absolutely have to.

:D Drivin's cheaper, and I can stop off along the way to visit folks--and go huntin' or shootin' if we want to. :D

Art
 
If we sit by and let people like the PO get away with things like this, then we really are no better than them.

It's things like this that lead me to believe that when the time comes, and it will, for the gun grabbers to drop by every house and collect all the guns, those of us that are willing to fight and die for our convictions and rights will die alone and unremembered.

Sometimes this place makes me sick.
 
If you were a trained professional on a subject that people were handing out completely bad advice on don't you think you would step in and try to correct and clear up some issues
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I can appreciate your point of view crewchief, but I have to tell you that as someone who manages a multi-state region in my job, most of the TSA folks I've encountered do little to give the impression that they are "trained professionals." My last flight out of DFW is an example.

I went through the baggage check, and was pulled over to take off my shoes (I know many people will do that voluntarily, but my opinion is I have a 50/50 shot that my shoes will clear the alarms, so I'll keep them on). I sat down and took off my shoes, and stuck my feet out to be wanded. "No, no" says the TSA agent. "Don't point your toes up."
"Huh?" says I. He says "Don't point your toes up ...point them out. " :confused: Well, that's a new one.

Then I had to stand up and get wanded. This time it was my chin that was creating a security concern. "Look up, with your chin up."
I turned halfway, put one hand on my hip, the other under my chin, and made a perfect "little teapot." "Better?" said I, just a little bit aggravated. I guess that was lost on him, because he said "Yeah-fine." Unbelievable.

Now all of this was completely new to me, and it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone why my Platinum frequent flyer status has now reached Cardboard. Having to deal with the inconsistencies of the rules and regulations that are now accepted by the once a year traveler, makes me nuts. Add into the equation that I'm a law abiding citizen who would like to check a handgun when I fly, and it's easy to see why this latest addition to the Federal alphabet soup agencies can generate such strong feelings.
 
Geegee,

I have to agree with you that most TSA agents can hardly be called professionals. There are a few good ones although very rare especially at the larger airports where information flow seems to be a problem as well as proper training. That screener you encountered was completely wrong but it could have been his preference for you to point your toes. Just like I have seen screeners that like people to spread their legs farther apart then others while wanding. That is why we came up with those mats with the feet painted on them so that we can have some form of standardization of how far apart the legs should be. Believe me as a supervisor I am constantly correcting screeners on their procedures. Like I have one who constantly touches the passenger with the handwand even though the standard is two inches from the body. I have been telling him this for two years and he still does it time to time and it makes me want to scream. Trust me I have written him up and counseled him many times but I still do not have the authority to fire him nor is it a fireable offense. We do have some less than smart put it that way screeners, but we also have some equally less than smart supervisors and big bosses. That is the truly scary thing:uhoh: is that the company that did the hiring for the TSA was not to selective on the process. I mean sure you had to read and write and pass a battery of tests but none of those tested for common sense. Believe me I am leaving in a month and moving to another state and I will never I repeat never work for such a group of idiots again. So the next time I pass through an airport as a regular Joe I will have to just hang my head and shake it back and forth.:banghead:
 
gryphon said: If we sit by and let people like the PO get away with things like this, then we really are no better than them.

It's things like this that lead me to believe that when the time comes, and it will, for the gun grabbers to drop by every house and collect all the guns, those of us that are willing to fight and die for our convictions and rights will die alone and unremembered.

Sometimes this place makes me sick.
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Well, there is a huge difference between not allowing someone to take ammo in checked luggage and coming house to house to collect people's guns. First of all, I could have said to the cop, "You know what, I think I'll miss my flight. Let me have my ammo back and I'm going to arrange a rental car to get me to my destination, rather than lose those expensive eight rounds of ammo." In other wards, it was not theft by a cop. Somebody had to take custody of them if they weren't allowed, and it is asking a lot for them to arrange a system by which you could later retrieve them with a receipt. Yes, being lectured on my choice of ammo by a police officer pissed me off, but they are allowed to have their regulations on how we have to package our ammo to be checked. Eight rounds at the airport was not the hill I chose to die on. You'll have to pardon me if that means that, in you assessment, I don't qualify as a patriot.
 
This thread should be titled...

HOW TO ROB A GUN OWNER IN FRONT OF HIM AND HAVE HIM THANK YOU FOR IT.
 
(quote)Well, there is a huge difference between not allowing someone to take ammo in checked luggage and coming house to house to collect people's guns. First of all, I could have said to the cop, "You know what, I think I'll miss my flight. Let me have my ammo back and I'm going to arrange a rental car to get me to my destination, rather than lose those expensive eight rounds of ammo." In other wards, it was not theft by a cop. Somebody had to take custody of them if they weren't allowed, and it is asking a lot for them to arrange a system by which you could later retrieve them with a receipt. Yes, being lectured on my choice of ammo by a police officer pissed me off, but they are allowed to have their regulations on how we have to package our ammo to be checked. Eight rounds at the airport was not the hill I chose to die on. You'll have to pardon me if that means that, in you assessment, I don't qualify as a patriot.(end quote)

Hawkeye, some fights are worth it, some aren't. Sounds like you decided this one wasn't worth it and I agree. I doubt the pro gun movement will be set back much by the actions of one cop or one gunowner anyway.

org
 
Real Hawkeye, you stated the ammo was not in the original box which to me means you transferred it from the original to another.

Sounds like you just might have given a thief a few rounds of hollow points with your finger prints all over them. Sure hope he doesn't shoot someone with them. Hopefully, he is only a thief.
 
Splat says: Sounds like you just might have given a thief a few rounds of hollow points with your finger prints all over them. Sure hope he doesn't shoot someone with them. Hopefully, he is only a thief.
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Interesting point. I had never thought about it that way before. Oh well, you know what they say about hindsight. Seems unlikely, however, even if interesting. You should right murder mystery novels. :D
 
Esky,

Maybe the airport you were in is set up differently, but here in Anchorage the check-in desk is not behind the "security checkpoint". When the regs say "sec. cp" they mean the point where you are wanded, have your carry-on luggage checked, your papers are demanded, ya know, where the absolutely USELESS feel-good BS "security" takes place.

Typically the check-in counter, where they take your checked bags and issue boarding passes and the like, isn't "sterile". You can carry anything to that counter that is legal (by state law anyway), you can even carry concealed. You aren't in the "sterile area" by the boarding gates where random half-adze confiscations can take place at will.

Again, that's here anyway. I had to chuckle when they were doing the random stops on the access road, what were they going to do, shake their fingers at my legal trunk gun and carry concealed piece if I happened to be chosen? :rolleyes:

Given that the failure rates for the vaunted TSA are the same as the old private screeners the whole scenario just pisses me off in an amused way.
 
Art Eatman said:
Kinda hard for me to get to Germany to see my son without flying. And, at my age, the odds are against my going to Africa for a hunt--not that I've ever worried about that.

But when Joe Foss' Medal of Honor was taken from him at the Phoenix airport because "it had sharp points on it", which an 83-year-old man could have used to hurt somebody, I figured the inmates had taken over the asylum.

It's a philosophical thing: I won't fly unless I absolutely have to.

:D Drivin's cheaper, and I can stop off along the way to visit folks--and go huntin' or shootin' if we want to. :D

Art
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oh man! if i had been there and seen that ,i would have come unglued to the point they would have had to hold me down and sedate me!somebody would have gone down!to do that to a genuine hero is nothing but sheer stupidity that deservers an a## whoopin! :fire:
 
Where does the time go?

carebear,

Thanks for reminding me about this thread. It's been quite a while since it was active (but now here we go again!) You've made a very good point, I wasn't thinking about the security checkpoint as being after the checkin point. (Get the point?) :)

The airport where I had my ammo difficulty was in Orlando, FL, and at that airport travellers have to take a short tramway trip before you get to the checkin desk where guns, ammo etc are declared, and only travellers are allowed to take the tramride (have to show a ticket, IIRC.) So although it isn't a 'security' issue as such it does mean that once you're at the checkin desk you are pretty well committed... either you go flyin' or you have to leave. No other options available.

Here in CA... well, <sigh> I wish I could take my "legal trunk gun and carry concealed piece" but here any guns in the trunk have to be unloaded... pistols have to be locked up in a container in the trunk, separate from the ammo... and here in San Diego County, there really isn't any such thing as concealed carry if you're not a movie star, politician or gooood friend of the top cop, which means there isn't really any such thing for most of us. (Hopefully Jim March will be changing that matter REAL SOON NOW! at least I hope so!)

Just to followup- I did send the letter, pretty much as written back on p.4, off to Congressman Cunningham (R-CA), back in May.

And I haven't received any reply.

Which is odd, as I've sent him letters several times before and had pretty quick answers-- maybe he's had someone in his staff looking into the matter or gathering info, or maybe he's just ignored it, or put it into the "too hard" basket. Dunno! :confused:

I'll send him an email, reminding him about this letter (which was sent snail mail) and see if that stirs him into action.

Esky
 
Something is wrong when you ask to see the rules you have to follow, and you're told they're secret. How can one follow the law when one can't find out what it is?
 
This whole thread makes me want to take up handloading, just so that I can be robbed of some plus, plus, plus, PLUS, pressure ammo. :cuss:

Useless for-show "security" is bad enough. Useless for-show "security" that inconveniences and degrades people is worse. Useless for-show "security" that allows, yes, jack booted thugs to rob people with impunity is several steps over the line.

Crewchief, your helpful advice amounts to: "Bring KY jelly". And if you don't like being called a jack booted thug, try not BEING one.
 
The Real Hawkeye

"P.S. Regarding the guy who keeps asking which airport and airline, my answer is that the complaint that was the topic of my original post had to do with the attitude of the P.O., not the airline policy or the airport. I have a personal policy not to give specifics on the Internet that could connect me with any particular location. Sorry."

This P.O. is probably still working at the same airport. I hardly think that giving us the name of the airport (or at least the name of the city) will connect you with anything. If you don't want to give the airline's name, no biggee, as it wasn't the airline that did anything wrong. But at least give the rest of us some knowledge of where to be careful.

As to what to do, I would file a complaint now. Truth be told, I'd have filed it at the time. No need for theatrics, just ask for his superior and file the complaint. Oh, and ask for a signed receipt, and that a witness co-sign it. Be 100% business about it. Let the officer explain to his superiors and IA why he took the ammo. It'll make him think about it the next time the opportunity presents itself.
 
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angrywalkindude said:
I would go back with a box of sabotaged hollow points and hope he took them as well. Its hard to be a police officer missing a hand.
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I hope that you would feel comfortable doing that for 8 rounds of hollowpoint. I wouldn't be. And what happens if he gives his gun, loaded with your sabotaged rounds, to his wife, girlfriend or little kid, or to another cop who follows the Constitution and basic morality?

There are ways to pay the cop back without resorting to that kind of stuff. Filing a complaint would be tops on my list.

Oh, by the way, you have just left a record on the Internet that you are willing to do something of this sort. If you ever do it, your post may come back to haunt you. I'd strongly suggest that you not ever do anything of this sort, if for no other reason than to keep your sorry butt out of prison.
 
Sabotaged rounds... now that's what I call a "cop-killer" bullet!



Seriously though, don't actually do this. It would be illegal. Only cops are allowed to break the law.
 
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