lee dippers vs. lee safety scale, made an oddly loud BOOM!

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originally i started reloading pistol rounds with the lee classic loader... which ONLY provides a dipper. i wanted a fairly cheap setup to decide if i really wanted to start reloading...i wanted to use a variety of powders i had on hand and was suggested i ought to get the dipper set so i figured well whats a extra 7 bucks on top op the 300 dollar order i had to put in for my conversion plus the lee kit. i used the dippers for 300+ rounds without a hitch, then oddly enough i had what was an unusually loud round go off. i never bought any factor ammo so i dont know what they kick like or how they shoot accuracy wise, i was having terrible problems due to not knowing how to properly lube my cast bullets with lee liquid alox and didnt know if my barrel was clogged....

getting sidetracked, sorry... the .38 AND my .45 colt both had a single abnormally loud charge(what i thought was abnormal) i posted this thread to see if anyone else had used the dippers and threw too light a charge causing detonation. this didnt blow my gun or the .38, but i was concerned. now i know they throw so light i dont belive it was an overcharge, as the loads i WEIGHED out are even louder an hit harder:evil:(not max)

far as accuracy, using the 1.3cc dipper cut down a little since i thought it was supposed to throw 6+gr (actually threw ~4.5g) trailboss i got about 4-5" groups at under 17 yds, now using the scale and weighing each charge at 5.5gr i put ten shots into a 3"tall and 2" wide string, (not quite a circle lol:eek:) at 30+yds! darnit! now i completely lost my train of thought:uhoh:...
 
fireflyfather

Dippers GENERALLY are as consistent as the person using them. However, even a mechanical powder measure can be shortstroked, or otherwise mishandled to produce an inconsistent load.

Dippers are meant to be used ALONG SIDE of a scale. If used consistently, the variance will be minimal, as long as you are using THE SAME BATCH OF POWDER.
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That's what I'm talking about.

Tomorrow I will reload for the first time. I need to throw 5.7 gr of powder for some 9mm loads. I'll find the dipper that throws that weight or a little under by testing them on the scale... Once I find the dipper that throws the right charge, I'll record it in my dipper notes that x-dipper throws x-gr with x-powder.

Seems pretty simple. And I will throw about ten charges in the scale first to see how consistent it is but I imagine it will be close enough for plinking ammo.
 
i didnt order/buy a scale yet cause i didnt know how far into this i was gonna get yet, but you may need to gradually cut a dipper down to throw the correct weight, it takes two .7cc dippers to throw 5.5g trailboss, and im debating on whether or not to cut down my 1.6cc dipper or save and see if i can use it for any .44mag/ 30-30 loads
 
1858,

Save your plastic dippers, and use an old case to make a dipper ,you can start it out too long then file it down to the volume you want, strip some copper wire out of some scrap Romex house wiring and twist up a little handle around the extractor groove.

If you are in the market for a scale do youself a favor and skip the Lee.
It's not that they are innacurate, they're are very slow to dampen, the beam oscilates way to long, and cuts down on your throw time. That is if you throw every charge on the scale. If you throw from a powder dispenser and check every 10th round or so it's not too bad.

After you get you're custom dipper made, you can speed up the process and still weigh every charge.
 
Get away from the dippers and buy a scale and a powder dispenser...Right...A spoon my butt.

1858rem...
The dippers will get you into trouble as you have already noted in your first post. I understand that money is tight, but a good balance scale or electronic (Sorry Walkalong) and a powder dispenser and maybe a trickler are still a good investment. Even if you have to save for a while.
 
FWIW, I weighed 10 dips with a 1.6cc dipper I 'modified' to get 24gr. of H335 for my Saiga .223 loads. I won't list them all here, but the average weight was 24.1gr, with a max variance of .3gr. For that gun, I can live with this degree of accuracy. No brass or primer show any signs of pressure, and accuracy is (AK) good. BTW, for my Savage bolt gun loads, I zero the scale with each use and weigh every charge.
 
The spoon bit was a bit of sarcasm, but it was really suggested to me by someone at one of the better gun/reloading shops out here (yech!).

As long as you use the dippers with a scale, it's not a problem. A powder dispenser without a scale is just as (if not more) dangerous. The key is to use them in combination.

And not every round needs to be trickled. I think that is a point some people are still missing. Just because that is what you need to do YOUR reloading to fit YOUR needs, doesn't mean that it's what every reloader needs. As for me, a baseline for SAFETY is a scale, plus some sort of ballpark measuring device (dipper, spoon, powder measure). For my reloading I use considerably more than that, but not everyone needs all that equipment. Some folks just want to reload a couple boxes a year (I probably load less than 20 boxes of ammo a year myself) of cheap plinking ammo. Some people want something they can slip into a bug out bag or keep in a hunting lodge and not worry too much about it. A dipper or two along with powder it's been calibrated with is perfect for that role.
 
a good balance scale or electronic (Sorry Walkalong) and a powder dispenser and maybe a trickler are still a good investment. Even if you have to save for a while.
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This is great advice. I have 2 (both RCBS) tricklers and 3 mechanical scales (2 x RCBS 5-10's and 1 x RCBS 10-10) I have collected over the years (plus the electronic scale if I count my RCBS charge master combo) and I can't bring myself to part with any of them. I have dippers but I always use them in conjunction with a scale - ALWAYS.

LGB.
 
Dip to weigh....

I have a set of the Lee dippers and I use them solely for "throwing" the approximate charge onto the scale (preferably a bit on the LOW side), then topping off with the powder trickler. I always weigh each load, even when I throw them with my powder measure. I just throw a bit low and trickle up to the "zero line."

Even with my powder measure (which has the micrometer adjustment), I make notations that whatever powder is thrown at, say 251 on the micrometer powder measure which is just a bit shy of what I want the load to weigh in at, so I just trickle a few turns of the trickler up to ZERO on the scale!

I can see by the variance of how much powder is thrown each time by the dippers that there is quiete a difference between each charge "thrown" into the scale pan. I would never rely solely on those dippers!
 
Inspector: Are you making cheap plinking ammo, hot loads near max charges, or precision match ammo? For the latter two, your method is probably best. For plinking ammo, that's an AWFULLY slow way to do things.
 
:)That's the way I make ALL my ammo, and the way I ALWAYS HAVE!

Like The Bushmaster says, what's the hurry? I enjoy reloading and weighing EACH CHARGE is just part of it, so I enjoy it! Maybe it's the same reason I use bench rest primers in my 500 Magnum. Hey, they're only a few more bucks a brick, why not?

I wouldn't have it any other way.:)

I CAN TELL YOU, though that using those dippers by themselves could be a recipe for disaster. I see how far they're off when I throw the powder in my scale pan! No wonder the OP says "lee dippers vs. lee safety scale, made an oddly loud BOOM!"

I don't relish hearing anything ODD when I push the "BANG BUTTON," thank you.
 
??????

I have dippers, dont use them not because there is a problem but because I have several powder measures.but I do know about them,and they are made to throw low.as are the holes in the powder measures.You want maxim loads you use the scale.I dont like maxim loads.I like accurate loads and I get that with the powder measure.as for light loads blowing up BS.one or two powders have a warning,bullseye does not,but double charges do.I have been around longer than most of you and all the guns I have seen blow were from double charges.I have a security co.357 that blew the barrel in two.cylinder is fine.
barrel split.what happened? who knows. :rolleyes::uhoh:
 
Please understand, I'm not in a hurry (if you are, you shouldn't be reloading). However, I understand that MY needs are not the same as every reloader. I'd be willing to bet that over half of reloaders don't weigh every charge. Probably a LOT more. It's not a standard practice outside of benchrest shooting or an anal-retentive personality (I fall into the latter category myself). I see no need to jump on people for using, or spread FUD about, dippers, so long as people understand that you have to use a scale to calibrate.

The number of instances of a too-low charge causing a kaboom is a non-zero number, but it's also an extremely small one. It's also only a problem with very slow burning powders in a large case. For someone who needs to load a couple hundred rounds of 38 special or .45 ACP for the weekend, and only has three or four hours, there isn't time to weigh each charge, nor is it necessary for safety, provided you aren't loading at max. If you really want speed, of course, a progressive is a necessity, but I'd like to hear about people's experiences blowing up a gun using a dipper to make plinking ammo. I can't imagine the dipper being the only factor in such a catastrophe (wrong powder, double charge, barrel obstruction, etc seem much more likely). I also can't see the load being so weak that a bullet fails to exit the barrel because of a small difference in charge weight. If you are downloading that much, you are out of the realm of novice/average reloading parameters. That's best done with a chronograph, several atypical load manuals, a scale with test weights, and VERY careful attention to making sure each bullet exits the barrel.

Short version: Can anyone here attribute a blown up gun or injury to dippers used with a scale? Nobody has to use them if they can't master the SIMPLE technique involved, or doesn't like them. For those that know how to use them safely, they're a useful tool.
 
But not accurate... At least not for me...
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Me neither.

Also, one has to consider, if they are in a hurry to get so many rounds loaded in so many hours (or minutes), then that really goes against one of the basic rules of reloading---TO NOT BE IN A HURRY.
Reloading + being in a hurry may eventually lead to catastrophe (I said MAY).
 
I dropped my Lee safety scale and broke the beam. I bought a Hornady Pacific M scale. GET ONE!!!!! It`s heavier and all metal, easier to zero balance and set the desired powder weight. The numbers are bigger and SO much easier to read. Stronger damper meaning the beam doesn`t take forever to stop going up and down , up and down before stopping. Have the LEE scale bronzed and get Hornady M scale. Trust me you`ll be glad that you did. The M scale is worth every penny.
 
i got a pic....the top "target" is 5.5g trailboss(two throws with the .7cc dipper) and a cast 255g rnfp at a bit over thirty yards, the bottom is 5.5 g of titegroup at same range same bullet too, need to work on that one a little more cause for the extra 150+fps of titegroup i think it could make a really nice load, went ahead and got 18oz of TB anyhow cause i found it cheap and it shoots so well already
100_0493.jpg
 
No one said that dippers wouldn't give good accurate loads. Just not accurate and consistent throws. When you are working at the low end or high end of the spectrum you want accurate powder charge weights. Dippers work O K at mid-range powder throws.
 
dippers are very very very accurate. If you use them correctly.

1st. lets look at how they were designed. Open a bottle of Unique measure out 10 grains of powder. Pour the powder in a shell and trim it down to where the powder is at the exact height. do a couple of test and your done. Problem is you just did a conversion from weight to volume. I use dippers for smokeless and black powder. i can tell you 30 grains of black powder measured in volume is exact as long as i give it a couple of taps to settle the powder and refill. However it will never measure to 30 grains weight. when we use dippers you may be off. shipments and manufacturing settling of the product humidity are all factors. This is why they should always be checked prior to using. then same time always give the dipper a tap to settle the powder to prevent air gaps. You must remember though.

If you use a dipper without a scale then you are basicly measuring by volume. Which means you accept the weight. Always make sure you give the dipper a tap never crown the dipper. meaning you have to have a flat surface not a raised or lowered surface. then make sure you use a scale. if you do not then you will be off slightly. depending on what your shooting it may not make that much off a difference. however as long as you are consistant on how you load with the dipper you will shoot very consistant loads.
 
They are sooo accurate, scrat, that if I didn't need the box they came in I would send them to you including the ones I made with cases, welding rod and solder. But I need the carton as a divider in one of my loading bench draws...I haven't used them in 18 years...
 
hahahahahaha ya but bushmaster you dont shoot blackpowder. i already have enough. 24 grains volume is 24 grains volume. Goex 3f to flask, flask to powder volumetric dipper then load.
 
one of these days im going to have to meet up with you to shoot black powder. even use them for loading up 45 colt black powder loads.
 
I must admit, when I use it to throw a charge into my scale pan, I really am not taking pains to be sure that every scoopful is precisely the same.

Also, the only time I use them is when I'm working up various loads -- i.e., five shells of one load, five of another. Once I've settled on a load, I'll use my powder measure to throw the load into the scale pan.

I can see how, if I were to do what you say, scrat, it would surely make a difference.
 
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