Lee Explosion Shield for certain primers?

[BigMikeUSMC]

Hello all,

I recently bought a Lee Loadmaster and am happy with it so far but have one question: why do they insist on a primer explosion shield for all primers other than CCI or Winchester?

Does anyone have an explanation as to why other makers primers would be more prone than these two to explode?

I've done some searches and there doesn't seem to be much information, so I'm wondering if this isn't some marketing bias with Lee.

All the best,
Mike

 

[mjrodney]

Grant Cunningham, a prominent gunsmith out of Oregon, fine tunes revolver actions.

While fine tuning one of my bride's revolvers, he asked what primers I used (I reload) since primer hardness comes into play when you are lightening up a hammer spring. This one is not a defensive firearm.

He told me that Federal primers are the most sensitive, followed by Winchester and then CCI (being the hardest).

 

[Peter M. Eick]

Play around with primers a bit and try then on different guns. You will see that the advice above is generally true. I have a pre-27 that does not like to fire anything but feds consistently while cci's (my standard) are hit or miss (forgive the bad pun).

If you dig into it, you will find that Feds use a "basic formulation" and others use a different type. Also the thickness of the cups is different.

The bigger question is why use a loader that has a "blast shield"? The very fact that it has that name would cause me pause and concern.

 

[redneck2]

so I'm wondering if this isn't some marketing bias with Lee.

Mr Lee seems to have some rather strong opinions. I suspect emotions can at time cloud logic.

I prefer Winchester for pistol (I can use the same primers for any powder) and I use Federal for rifle. I've had Federals upside down, crushed sideways, and decapped more than one live one. Never had a primer AD to this point.

That said, my Dillon has a steel primer housing with an open top. They state the design is to direct the blast upward should the primer column chain fire. I suspect that, if it did, you'd be hard of hearing for a while and perhaps need extra time at the laundry for stain removal.

 

[RobZ71LM7]

FWIW the Hornady LnL also has a blast shield around the primers. I suspect it's more insurance against a freak accident and someone using the testimony of Mr. Lee to find Hornady at fault. Anyways I don't think it hurts as long as it's strong enough not to fail and add shrapnel to the mess.

 

[The Bushmaster]

If you are that worried about primers exploding or being set off you can save on a laundry bill by reloading naked.

CCI, Winchester, Remington and last, but not least, Federal of the name brands. Not sure where Magtech comes in on this list. I load on a Lee three hole turret and do my priming on a lee single stage press using Lee's Auto Prime II system and have not had a primer of any brand go ka-boom and like Redneck2 have put them in upside down, sideways and crushed. And have removed live primers without incident (wear safety glasses when you reload).

 

[Paul "Fitz" Jones]

When CCI primers were invented I felt they were using worn out tools from other companies. I was selling Star and C-H Auto Champ Progressive Reloaders. The result was explosions in the Auto Champs because the primers were out of round or too tall for the C-H primer feeding mechanism and exploded in a number of incidents causing injuries. So I invented a Blast Shield for the C-H and warned all my customers since about CCI primers. That the cheapest primers are not the best and you get what you pay for.

 

[BigMikeUSMC]

All,

Thanks very much for all the responses. My guess is it's "possible" to have a primer go off accidentally while reloading and even "possible" it could set off a chain-reaction in the other primers in the loader, but my guess is the statement made by Mr. Lee re 'any other primers needing an explosion shield' has more to do with liability (or potential) and lawyers advice than reality.

It would seem to me if one or another of the primer manufacturers had a lot of AD they likely wouldn't be in business very long.

I've been using Remington primers and have, as has been mentioned, put them in sideways, upside down and you-name-it without incident. BTW - I have the dumb 'Explosion Shield' and will continue to use it "just in case" but my guess is it is nothing more than a $0.30 piece of metal that is sold for $5!

Once again, thanks for all the replies - they are appreciated.

All the best,
Mike

 

[benedict1]

At 5 bucks the explosion shield is the cheapest insurance policy you can have.

Lee strongly recommends against Federal primers for the simple reason that they have had enough documented examples of explosions that it just makes sense to avoid them. Don't think that other presses, including Dillon, don't have the occasional "bang" Check the web for examples.

If you want quantitative results check any company that customizes M1911 .45s--combination of a .380 Super firing pin and a 19 # mainspring will generally not fire Winchester primers consistently. Lots of light hits. We had the problem with a custom built Wilson. Called them up and they said to send it back-they installed a .45 firing pin and a 21 # mainspring and the problem went away. Many experienced M1911 shooters can verify this. Federals will generally fire consistently with the light firing pins/mainsprings.

By the way, if you are having priming issues go to this You Tube video on the Load Master to get rid of them forever. There are a few simple fixes that will take you all of about 15 minutes and priming will be smooth and totally dependable--there are three videos in the series; this is the first,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uUQr855_K8

They are made by a guy called shadowdog500; he has three of them. He also has one on the case feeder and one on lubing the LM.

There are also videos by another guy called darwin te. He has two of them on setup and operation. They will pretty well answer any question you might have. Just search on Load Master or either of their names. I think you will be really please with what you find out.

 

[benedict1]

Load Master Setup/Troubleshooting videos on You Tube

Here's a better link for all shadowdog500 Load Master videos. They are little treasures! They show some clever animation also so you can get a clear picture of how the priming system actually works.

http://www.youtube.com/user/shadowdog500

Here are all darwin te videos on setup for Load Master and how to build a super strong mount(!)

http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=DarwinTe&p=r

 

[BigMikeUSMC]

Hello Benedict1,

Thanks for your response; as I mentioned, I have the explosion shield and my question was prompted more by my natural curiosity and what appears to be the illogic associated with such discrimination against some primer makers by Lee.

I am not in the least an expert (barely qualify as a neophyte!) in reloading or propellant technology, but it would seem to me all the primer manufacturers need to respond to a set of industry established specifications re their product - can't imagine each one decides what the diameter/height/ignition temp would be!

Assuming the previous statement is true, then why would one maker be singled out (actually more than one, as Lee states the ONLY acceptable primers are from CCI & Winchester) for special safety needs? I agree, the explosion shield is cheap insurance and have one mounted on my press, but it begs the question: If Lee believes it's necessary or even just a good idea, shouldn't it be included with the auto-prime system, not sold as an add-on?

Thanks for the links to the videos - I was fortunate to find them right after I bought the Loadmaster and agree they are invaluable in setting the press up to run smoothly and accurately. I've actually downloaded them all and have them on the computer near the press in order to refer to them as necessary.

No question the 'very solid mount' should 'reduce' any movement!!

All the best,
Mike

 

[benedict1]

Can't speak for Federal; they do what they do and they must meet SAAMI specs for diameter, length, etc. Choice of percussion material and manufacturing materials are their's, not Lee's.

Why don't you call Lee and ask to speak with John Lee? If he's around I'm sure he would talk with you about your concerns. I have no idea why there aren't "explosion shields" for the other devices. Ask him. All I know is that people who use Federal primers may get on fine for years and then "ka-blooey". All I can say for sure, in my own experience, is already said above about striking energy needed to set them off in a M1911. Federals are much more sensitive

I like your "stage name" We are big USMC supporters at our house, having many friends on active duty. Send me a PM sometime and I'll tell you more about that, if you want.

The Load Master, when the dies are set right and the priming is polished up a bit, is fantastic. Even loading cases by hand with just the case slider in place I can churn out a box of 50 in less than 5 minutes and I'm not rushing. It's the best deal in reloading, IMHO.

By the way, welcome to THR. This is a great forum with some very nice, knowledgeable people.

 

[BigMikeUSMC]

Hello Benedict1,

Agreed as to what Federal (and for that matter, Lee) can and cannot do; you pay the man and take your chances!

It's really not a big deal for me, as I said, just my natural curiosity getting the better of me. I do not use Federal primers, not because of any antipathy towards them but my local suppliers normally don't have them so I end up with Remington.

I'm sure Mr. Lee would have a rock-solid explanation as to their position stating use only Winchester or CCI primers without the shield otherwise they wouldn't have done so (what with liability and other laws being what they are.)

Glad you like the pseudonym; reflects my history and position pretty well. Unfortunately that was in the 'long ago' - got my honorable discharge back in '71. Hope all your friends and acquaintances keep safe and well.

All the best,
Mike