Lee Load Master - Newbie Questions

[mtheroux]

Ok, so I'm ready to take the plunge and start reloading my own. I've done quite a bit of reading and viewing online videos and concluded that I think the Lee Load Master fits my abilities and budget.

The loads I want to make are: .40S&W, .223 Rem, .38 SPL, .270 Win. I'll probably start off making .40S&W until I get comfortable with the process and equipment, then move to the .223 REM. Others later.

I would appreciate if someone out there is familiar with the Lee Load Master can tell me if I've identified the correct list of items to set this up. Here is what I think I need. Am I right or wrong? Any suggested changes?

90940 Lee Load Master 40 S&W*
90862 Lee 40/10 Carbide Factory Crimp Die*
90667 Lee Case Collator*
90681 Lee Safety Scale*
90292 Universal Decapping Die

90079*Lee 5-hole turret*
90604 Lee 223 Rem Deluxe Rifle 3 Die Set*
90910 Shell Plate #4s (223, 222, etc.)

90079*Lee 5-hole turret**
90964 Lee Deluxe 357/38 SPL 4 Die Set
90907 Shell Plate #1 (38 SPL)

90612 Lee 270 Win Deluxe Rifle Die Set

90899 Lee Zip Trim Power Head
90275 Cutter with Ball Grip
90109 Lee Chamfer Tool
90154 Gage/Holder 40S&W
90114 Gage/Holder 223 Rem
90128 Gage/Holder 270


Thank you

 

[helg]

1. Loadmaster for pistol comes with disk powder measure that charges through powder-through expander die for the caliber. Largest cavity in the disk measure is still too small for most rifle charges. To charge rifles you need to have
90058 perfect powder measure,
90273 universal charging die.
Less expensive alternative to the above, which works for 223, is
90194 auto disk rifle charging die,
90195 double disk kit.

Double disk kit for disk powder measure is more consistent than cup-based 90058, but may not fit enough powder for large calibers. 270win case capacity is 4.35 cubical cm, 223 is 1.87 cu cm, and double disk kit measures up to 2*1.57=3.14 cu cm.

90273 works with both chargers, while 90194 works only with 90195.

2. If you think of using cast rifle bullets you need universal neck expanding die for rifles 90798. Usually people do not use cast bullets for the rifle calibers that you have mentioned.

3. Optional parts
Powder funnel. 90190.
Primer pocket cleaner. 90101.

4. Rifle calibers may be charged with full-sizing or neck-sizing processes. Your bolt-action rifle may get better accuracy if you neck size brass that has been fired from your rifle. You may consider neck sizer set for the caliber.

5. Tumbler and media. I believe that you will use fired brass.

6. Drill in wise (if you already have them) with Lee lock stud (90110) is a good alternative to zip trim.

7. Book. While there is a lot of information online, it may be still better to have a consistent source. YMMV.

Added later
Bullet puller. Simple kinetic mallet-based puller should be enough.

 

[MMCSRET]

The Loadmaster is a great machine, but, it has a sharp learning curve. Watch every move, every time, watch your primer tray, it will run empty and then you have powder dribbling out of unprimed cases with bullets seated. I've loaded well over 110,000 rounds on mine and I found that all the problems I experienced were created by me; not paying attention, not keeping it clean and lubricated. It will do you well if you take basic good care of it.
Don't be afraid to call Lee, they are great to deal with and will talk you thru any problems. When I set mine up in 1997 there weren't any instructional videos. Good loading and good shooting!!!!

 

[Bill from NJ]

mtheroux,

You will do well heading the advice from helg.

Helg gave very good information to you.

Best wishes with your decision of a LM.

Regards,

Bill

 

[WNC Seabee]

If you're getting the 90940 Kit for 40S&W, you do not need the decapping or Factory Crimp die. They will come with the carbide die set included in the package. At least they did with my 90945 kit for .45ACP.

If you're starting with pistol calibers, skip all of the case prep/trimming tools for now. You won't need them until you get into the rifle calibers.

I'd also skip the case collator. The case feeder that comes with the kit is pretty good on its own.

As MMCSRET said, take your time until you get to know the machine. The biggest hiccup you'll have is with bad primer seating. That is almost 100% caused by going too fast or being too aggressive pulling the handle. Just take it nice and steady until you get a good feel for everything.

There is a little "arm" that actuates the primer. I'm tired so I can't think of the proper name....but the arm has a slot that fits over a stud on the actuator. If this arm jumps off the stud (again from being too aggressive/fast), then priming stops and you don't get any warning.

Pay attention to the primer tray. It can go empty sooner than you think and it's placed where you can't easily see it. What I do is load the tray with 100 primers, then count out 100 cases. When I run out of cases, I know my primer tray is dry.

For each new pistol caliber, you'll need: dies, turret and shell plate.

Do not trust the Auto-Disk measures that are listed in the manual/guide that come with the press. Weigh your charges when setting up a load. The Auto-Disk is very consistent, it's just that the guide is often times off for a given powder. For example, (totally made up example...), the guide may say that the .32 disk will throw 5gr of TiteGroup when in fact it throws 4.8 or 5.2. Once I know what a particalu disk aperture will throw for a particular powder, I usually weigh the first 3-5 charges then trust it from that point forward; I might weigh again when I add more primers or at the next loading session.

I don't know why people say the LoadMaster has as steep learning curve. I thought it was pretty easy to get up and running. It was/is my first and only press. Once I figured out that you need to go "smooth" then my speed was able to really pick up and I'm now loading ~200 rounds an hour if I'm really going at it.

 

[softail99]

Dillon

You should have bought a Dillion 650 if you want real ammo! Cheap in and Cheap out!

 

[MMCSRET]

softail99? please detail your experiences with a Lee Load Master that leads you to make the Dillon positive statement. I'm always wanting to hear both sides of an issue. I know you favor Dillon 650. Please list in detail your personal experience with the Load Master.

 

[WNC Seabee]

Dillon
You should have bought a Dillion 650 if you want real ammo! Cheap in and Cheap out!

Incredibly helpful, insightful and very High Road comment.

I've loaded thousands of rounds of ammo with the LoadMaster and they all go boom. Sorry you overspent on blue paint just to get in the cool guy club.

 

[243winxb]

mtheroux, this link might help you understand what each item/dies/unit does. http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/faq/index.cgi

 

[bullseye308]

I love my Loadmonster. I also have a Lee Reloader press next to it. Most of my depriming-resizing is done on the Loadmonster then I hand prime all my brass* then anything over a couple hundred is done on the Loadmonster. All small batches are done on the Reloader press now. I used to do most of my loading on the Reloader but have moved back to doing larger qty again and it just makes more sense to use the right press.

Watch the loadmaster videos, check out the loadmastervideos site & forum if you need any help. Order extras of the plastic priming parts. They are plastic for a reason, they break before something bad happens. It is cheap insurance.


*I tried to do the priming on the Loadmonster and at that time I was in need of ammo and didn't want to slow down and figure it out so I primed it by hand then loaded it. The problem was not the press, it was the operator, just to make that clear. Now I just prime it all off the press to have more "fondle" time and check the brass better.

 

[mtheroux]

Folks, I'm watching these replies and just want to say thank you to all who have Lee Load Master experience and took time to contribute.

My basic approach is that I want to get my configuration right the first time, so I don't end up buy additional parts that aren't needed.

I'll respond directly to your posts.

Thanks again,
Mark

 

[mtheroux]

1. Loadmaster for pistol comes with disk powder measure that charges through powder-through expander die for the caliber. Largest cavity in the disk measure is still too small for most rifle charges. To charge rifles you need to have
90058 perfect powder measure,
90273 universal charging die.
Less expensive alternative to the above, which works for 223, is
90194 auto disk rifle charging die,
90195 double disk kit.

Double disk kit for disk powder measure is more consistent than cup-based 90058, but may not fit enough powder for large calibers. 270win case capacity is 4.35 cubical cm, 223 is 1.87 cu cm, and double disk kit measures up to 2*1.57=3.14 cu cm.

90273 works with both chargers, while 90194 works only with 90195.

2. If you think of using cast rifle bullets you need universal neck expanding die for rifles 90798. Usually people do not use cast bullets for the rifle calibers that you have mentioned.

3. Optional parts
Powder funnel. 90190.
Primer pocket cleaner. 90101.

4. Rifle calibers may be charged with full-sizing or neck-sizing processes. Your bolt-action rifle may get better accuracy if you neck size brass that has been fired from your rifle. You may consider neck sizer set for the caliber.

5. Tumbler and media. I believe that you will use fired brass.

6. Drill in wise (if you already have them) with Lee lock stud (90110) is a good alternative to zip trim.

7. Book. While there is a lot of information online, it may be still better to have a consistent source. YMMV.

Added later
Bullet puller. Simple kinetic mallet-based puller should be enough.

Thank you for so much great advice!

1. I understand that I need the perfect powder measure & universal charging die for loading large rifle cartridges. I've heard that the disk powder measure is superior for handguns, but I'd rather only buy one powder measure for all jobs, if I can. Is the perfect powder measure accurate/reliable enough for handgun ammo?

From a cost perspective, would it be better to start off buying the .223 kit and then adding the .40SW dies?

2. No plans to cast bullets.

3. thanks. I'll get these, bullet puller too.

4. I don't shoot much bolt-action. How strongly do you recommend neck sizing to get started?

5. thanks, I'll get these.

6. I assume you mean "Vice". Do you recommend this because its easier, faster or cheaper?

7. Books are old school. I'll figure out reference materials - don't want shelfware that I don't use.

 

[mtheroux]

thank you.

 

[mtheroux]

If you're getting the 90940 Kit for 40S&W, you do not need the decapping or Factory Crimp die. They will come with the carbide die set included in the package. At least they did with my 90945 kit for .45ACP.

If you're starting with pistol calibers, skip all of the case prep/trimming tools for now. You won't need them until you get into the rifle calibers.

I'd also skip the case collator. The case feeder that comes with the kit is pretty good on its own.

As MMCSRET said, take your time until you get to know the machine. The biggest hiccup you'll have is with bad primer seating. That is almost 100% caused by going too fast or being too aggressive pulling the handle. Just take it nice and steady until you get a good feel for everything.

There is a little "arm" that actuates the primer. I'm tired so I can't think of the proper name....but the arm has a slot that fits over a stud on the actuator. If this arm jumps off the stud (again from being too aggressive/fast), then priming stops and you don't get any warning.

Pay attention to the primer tray. It can go empty sooner than you think and it's placed where you can't easily see it. What I do is load the tray with 100 primers, then count out 100 cases. When I run out of cases, I know my primer tray is dry.

For each new pistol caliber, you'll need: dies, turret and shell plate.

Do not trust the Auto-Disk measures that are listed in the manual/guide that come with the press. Weigh your charges when setting up a load. The Auto-Disk is very consistent, it's just that the guide is often times off for a given powder. For example, (totally made up example...), the guide may say that the .32 disk will throw 5gr of TiteGroup when in fact it throws 4.8 or 5.2. Once I know what a particalu disk aperture will throw for a particular powder, I usually weigh the first 3-5 charges then trust it from that point forward; I might weigh again when I add more primers or at the next loading session.

I don't know why people say the LoadMaster has as steep learning curve. I thought it was pretty easy to get up and running. It was/is my first and only press. Once I figured out that you need to go "smooth" then my speed was able to really pick up and I'm now loading ~200 rounds an hour if I'm really going at it.

Thanks, great advice!

I understand from you that the Load Master pistol kits come with the factory crimp die. I'll confirm when I place the order.

Are you saying that your LoadMaster pistol kit included the universal decapping die that would be installed in position 1? How many & which dies came with your kit?

Regarding the case feed and collator - I do not know the differences. Can you explain the differences between the included case feeder and the collator?

 

[WNC Seabee]

My kit came with 4 dies....

here's now the 5 stations are setup
1. Carbide Decapping and Sizing Die
2. empty, priming station
3. Powder through and expanding die
4. Bullet Seating die
5. Factory Crimp die

So, the kit does not come with the "universal" decapping die; it's a combo decapping/sizing die.

Link to the kit that came with my set: http://leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse.cgi?1244127992.4596=/html/catalog/dies-pistol.html

I also load for .38/.357 and 9mm. For each caliber change I bought the "Deluxe" 4 Die set that mirrors the set up above for ~ $25/set.

BTW..going to .38 or 9mm required me to also swap out the Large Primer system for the Small Primer system. Very easy change over.

Also..figure out what you want, then order from MidwayUSA.com. You'll get better pricing.

 

[mtheroux]

thank you

 

[helg]

How strongly do you recommend neck sizing to get started?

Not at all. Sub-MOA shooting, where you need neck-sizing, is the whole different world. People there use single-stage instead of progressive, powder tricker, expensive case prep tools, measure chamber for perfect bullet diameter and jump. You may end up there, but it is not what to start from.

I assume you mean "Vice". Do you recommend this because its easier, faster or cheaper?

You are right, my misspelling. I do not have zip trim, but I do use vice/drill solution a lot - to convert 9x19 brass, which is everywhere, to 9x18, which is hard to find. Cutting full millimeter out of 9mm case requires more efforts that uniforming the length for 30 caliber, so I decided that the electrical tool will do the job better than my muscles.

BTW, my cutter went dull after about 500 caliber conversions. It still works, but new cutter does the job much smoother.

Books are old school

I have to agree. My loading log with all recipes, specs, measurements, inventory and loading sessions - is in an electronic spreadsheet.

Few other things you may consider - for new school. You may live without them, especially for the beginning.

Ballistics program. QuickLoad/QuickTarget is a good set. Loading recipes from a manual are for a limited set of bullets - and give no clue what to expect from a bullet, which length/weight are not there.

Chronograph. Walmart.com now has one for $70. "Working up load", where you start with new powder/bullet, and look only for pressure marks, is much more effective once you have data for muzzle speed. You would be surprised that your ammo is more consistent in the speed than the one from Walmart.

Digital caliper/micrometer/scale. Harforfreight has digital caliper for around $10-15, and it works fine. My inexpensive digital scale from ebay is described at this thread. I do not have classic beam scale yet. With the precise digital scale I can easily check inconsistency of powder measure for each hole in a disk - by measuring ten drops and finding standard deviation in a spreadsheet. Beam scales are not that good for the inconsistency measurement.

Added later:

Is the perfect powder measure accurate/reliable enough for handgun ammo?

I have not tried the perfect powder measure for handgun loading. It does work with the universal charging die, not sure whether it works with caliber-specific expander/chargers for handguns. You may call Lee to figure this out. I doubt that is may not work, as the PPM requires 1.00 inch travel of the tube that slides inside charging die to actuate, and pistol calibers, where charging operation is combined with flaring case neck, have the flaring insert completely inside the die. This means that charging tube can not start actuating until empty case comes into the die. With this, shell case has to be more than 1 inch long when measured from a top of shellplate to actuate the PPM. 40SW is shorter than an inch.

If you want to save money, skip extra turrets for a caliber. It is nice to have things, but not absolutely necessary.

Two things that I have missed in my first response.

1. 40SW and 38spl use large case feeder, 223 - rifle one. 270Win, I doubt, has to be manually fed. Other trick is that 40 needs uses slider for the small feeder - anyway, the slider itself is cheap. I would suggest to start with case feeder for a caliber that you shoot the most. I had no problems with case feeder for 9mm, I did make one mod for 40SW, and I do not use case feeder for rifle calibers. I do not load a lot of rifle rounds in one session, and time to install the feeder does not justify its time savings on a short session.

2. .223 and 40SW and 38spl share small primer feeder. Not sure whether you need a large one for 270Win.

 

[mtheroux]

Great! Thank you. Placed my order this afternoon.

 

[mtheroux]

All - you've been great!! I placed my order today.

I have one more quick question.

I'm planning to use the Universal Decapping Die.

Is this adequate for reloading once fired 5.56 Lake City ammo?

Is any extra preparation required due to the crimped primers?

 

[jfh]

without going into all the details--

I will mention that http://loadmastervideos.com/ is a wonderful resource for people with the Load-Master. The videos are well-worth the time it takes to watch them; Darwin and Shadowdog demonstrate the proper setup and trouble-shooting one may want to get this machine running smoothly. The STP lube trick for the case feeder setup is ingenious.

I did not figure out whether or not you chose to order a ProAutoDisk measure for the handgun cartridges--I would strongly suggest you do; the PPM will work after a fashion maybe--but it really defeats the use of the PTED handgun dies. When churning out handgun ammo, the Auto Disk measure is much more reliable. I also prefer an Adjustable Charge Bar for getting my loads exactly what I want, rather than customizing the disks....

Over the years I've had mine I've learned to keep some spare parts on hand--primarily the primer parts, and specifically the primer sliders. I also found I had greater reliability for higher-speed handgun cartridge production by going to a 5-die setup--e.g., with a (universal decapper) in station one, a sizer w/o decapper in two (over the primer) and then the typical PTED, seater, and crimper in three, four, and five.

Not all people feel a 5-die setup is necessarily better, however. With it, and with the case feeder tubes and collator installed, and then prepared for production (spare primer trays filled, components all organized, etc., etc., including finished-round storage bins), I usually load between 360 and 480 rounds per hour for handguns. Since I have tweaked my die setups, my LOAs vary at most +/- .003.

Although the auto-indexing is easily disabled, I do prefer to do load development on a turret. Personally, I think errors are likely when using a progressive for load development.

And on, and on. When your gear arrives, don't hesitate to ask questions here--there's several of us owners here, and the Load-Master Forums people are the real afficiandos.

Jim H.

 

[Jumping Frog]

If you're getting the 90940 Kit for 40S&W, you do not need the decapping or Factory Crimp die. They will come with the carbide die set included in the package. At least they did with my 90945 kit for .45ACP.

Your press may have accidently shipped with a 4 die set, but the standard Loadmaster pistol kit ships with the 3 die set. When I bought my 90945 kit, it did not come with the FCD.

If you don't believe me, simply call Lee 262-673-3075.

7. Books are old school. I'll figure out reference materials - don't want shelfware that I don't use.

Contempt prior to investigation.

The best bargain of all is the Lee Anniversary pack. You get the Lee Manual for about $13, and an additional single stage press for just $7 more!
Lee Anniversary Pack (Reloader Press and Reloading Manual) (90700)

You will need the Large Primer Feeder (90077) kit for .270 Win.

Get the Lee Load-Master Progressive Press Primer Explosion Deflector (90363). It is $5. It could save your eyes or face. Enough said.

90681 Lee Safety Scale*

This is one Lee brand choice that I'd skip. Either get a +/- 0.1 gr digital, or get a decent Redding/RCBS/Hornady etc balance bean scale. If you are using a balance beam scale, getting a scale that you can zero is really important.

For case feeding, get the
90663 Rifle Case Feeder (for .223)
TR2449B Case Slider Large (for .38 sp)

A couple of other must have items to include would be:
A decent caliper, graduated to nearest 0.001".
An impact bullet puller.
Case tumbler.

Other useful Lee parts include the pistol powder options. You may never use them, but they are inexpensive and useful to piggyback onto the same shipping charges, rather than ordering them separetly later:
Lee Micro Disk (90302)
Lee Double Disk Kit (90195)
Lee Auto Disk Adjustable Powder Charge Bar (90792)

 

[mtheroux]

Thank you. Great advice.