Lee powder dippers...

[Berek]

Has anyone noticed a discrepancy with the amount of powder listed on the reference chart from the Lee dipper set compared to what actually weighs out?

Using W760 powder, there seems to be a 1.7-1.9 grain difference between what the reference chart says and what my Dillon balance scale says.

Anyone else notice this?

Berek

 

[The Bushmaster]

Try it on a rainy day and try it again on a hot sunny day and see what you get...Humidity and barametric pressure effect the weight... And yes...I have a full set of the dippers plus a whole bunch that I made out of welding rod, solder and modified cases...Soo I'm cheap...I come by it naturaly. My family is from Scotland...

 

[Berek]

Try it on a rainy day and try it again on a hot sunny day and see what you get...Humidity and barametric pressure effect the weight... And yes...I have a full set of the dippers plus a whole bunch that I made out of welding rod, solder and modified cases...Soo I'm cheap...I come by it naturaly. My family is from Scotland...

I'll give it a try tonight. Seems to be raining well. Not to mention, the clock I have in my reload area has a barometer, Humidy guage and a temp guage in it. I'll check them and try again later....

BTW, directly descended from the Stuarts in the Highlands...

Berek

 

[Berek]

I'll give it a try tonight. Seems to be raining well. Not to mention, the clock I have in my reload area has a barometer, Humidy guage and a temp guage in it. I'll check them and try again later....

Ok, I tried again. I was only able to come up with a minor difference (+/- .2 grains) but nothing that compared to the 1.8/1.9 grain difference shown between the reference card and my scale. Thanks anyhoo.

Any other experiences/comments?

Berek

 

[Dave Dembinski]

Has anyone noticed a discrepancy with the amount of powder listed on the reference chart from the Lee dipper set compared to what actually weighs out?

Using W760 powder, there seems to be a 1.7-1.9 grain difference between what the reference chart says and what my Dillon balance scale says.

Anyone else notice this?

Berek

I'm glad I'm not the only one! I found this to be the case with Unique, too. The .5cc measure only gives me about 3.5 grains as opposed to whatever Lee believes it should (4.2, I think). I figure as long as the dipper is internally consistent (which it is), it's not a big deal.

 

[The Bushmaster]

Berek...You don't want to go there...I am a direct decendent of Sir William Longsword. Son of William The Conquerer. My heritage is traced to 950 AD. in hard bound book and other references. I hail from the Normans that conquered Briton in the 1050's My direct family owned Holy Island at one time and the church is still standing with my family name on the entrance arch and on several of the stained glass windows not to mention all the grave stones baring my family name. In private I would give you my family name, but not here. It is a very old name in that It has been traced to the 13th century...If I was to give up my American citizenship and migrate back to Scotland I would request, ney, demand you to call me Lord S----...All this and a dime still won't buy me a cup of coffee, but it is fun...I have tarten, registered plaid and a family crest posted in the Tower of London. I warned you not to go there. Didn't I!!??!!

P.S. You will (if you know your history) note that my family would have been the Stuart's enemy and that includes the Wallace's of Scotland (I married one and it didn't last). Someday we should have a pint of ale...Bring your sword.

BTW...I would be one of those impoverished Lords...Sooo. No thank you. and besides my Father fought long and hard to be here. I'm first born US citizen in my family. WWII, Pacific, Troop transfort, Island hoping from New Zealand to Okinawa...1941 to 1945...Ever heard of Kamikazi...My Father's troop transport was moored outboard of the USS Missouri in Tokyo Bay. July 1945.

 

[Berek]

If I was to give up my American citizenship and migrate back to Scotland I would request, ney, demand you to call me Lord S----...All this and a dime still won't buy me a cup of coffee, but it is fun...I have tarten, registered plaid and a family crest posted in the Tower of London. I warned you not to go there. Didn't I!!??!!

P.S. You will (if you know your history) note that my family would have been the Stuart's enemy and that includes the Wallace's of Scotland (I married one and it didn't last). Someday we should have a pint of ale...Bring your sword.

Ok, Lord of the S---, My family has left its mark in the tower of London... Blood stains, mostly, but at least we messed up the pretty stonework!

Maybe your lovely Scottish ex-wife came to her senses and realized that the nut don't fall far from a tree that don't branch.

And you'd never win matching steel with me. My sword is both nimble and huge. So bow ... Wait. Wasn't William light in the loafers? I guess that would be ... bend over...

As for the ale... yer on.

Berek

PS: On a serious note, glad that yer dad kicked enough butt and dodged enough lead to bring you here.

 

[The Bushmaster]

L O L "Ain't this fun" and thanks. I like it here...Well except living in california (temporarily)...I've known from an early age who I was. My second wife is a Morman. As you know, she has to trace the family origins. (Imagin her surprise when I unloaded the family books and she had to varify them all). Needless to say, she was extremely surprised when she started tracing mine. No. I'm not Morman, although the Ward call's me "Brother Non-Member". I do help out once in a while...

I guess we should get back to the subject and quit High-Jackin' this string. Happy loading and shootin'.

 

[Fumbler]

You know, maybe Lee's dippers are below the starting loads (measured in grains) because it's very very difficult to measure out only part of a dipper.


If their 0.5cc dipper measures out 3.5 gr of XX powder, and the starting load of XX powder is 4.2 grains, then Lee is going to tell you to put one dipper in.

My guess is they're just covering their butts.

 

[Master Blaster]

Please do yourself a favor and dont use dippers. Buy a scale. Its much cheaper than the Copay on a trip to the emergency room.

 

[Crosshair]

Master Blaster

Please do yourself a favor and dont use dippers. Buy a scale. Its much cheaper than the Copay on a trip to the emergency room.

Don't mean to be rude, but how is a scale any less goof proof than dippers? I am now using dippers for all my loads where possible and have had not problems. The "don't use dippers" rule was born when people where substituting smokeless for black powder.

 

[halvey]

A scale tells you the weight, a dipper the volume. Big difference.

 

[Berek]

Please do yourself a favor and dont use dippers. Buy a scale. Its much cheaper than the Copay on a trip to the emergency room.

Well, I only use them on heavier loads (50 grains and up) and usually choose a load that is "middle of the road" so I'm not worried about exceeding or falling short.

You know, maybe Lee's dippers are below the starting loads (measured in grains) because it's very very difficult to measure out only part of a dipper.

If their 0.5cc dipper measures out 3.5 gr of XX powder, and the starting load of XX powder is 4.2 grains, then Lee is going to tell you to put one dipper in.

My guess is they're just covering their butts.

What I used as reference was the sliding reference card that comes with the dipper set. It's not based on starting or max loads, it just states what the grain equivalent to the CC measure is. Unfortunately, the difference is on that reference card, not from any reloading manuals. I'm just curious why they say that it weighs one thing when it weighs out to another?

A scale tells you the weight, a dipper the volume. Big difference.

We get that, but if they give a reference card stating that "volume x is equal to weight y" then it should reflect that as close as possible. I have gotten into the habit of starting with their dipper recommendations and changing as necessary based on the scale, but still... Accountability for those that don't double check, maybe?

Berek

 

[Crosshair]

Just so everyone knows, almost all factory ammo is made using volume to measure the powder. Unless you are using "balls to the wall" loads, you have nothing to worry about. Just weigh the powder from the dipper to see how much fits, then go from there. I weigh about every 20th dip and I have had no problems.

 

[MarineTech]

I'll normally use the Lee powder dippers only if I'm doing small batches of ammo (50 or less), and only then by weighing each charge. Saves the aggravation of setting/taking down/cleaning my RCBS powder measure.

 

[The Bushmaster]

Aah...I believe that we are missing something (the point) here. Volume translates into weight. Volume is nice except most and I believe all load manuals are in weight (grains). My Lee dippers are listed in volume and a sliding scale translates this into weight per powder manufacturer. I really don't know what the argument is here. I started out using dippers and had good results using them. Now that I have graduated to a beam scale then a electronic scale I still will not give up my Lee dippers. In fact I have made my own dippers using trimmed cases, mild steel welding rod and solder. I plugged the flash hole by installing a spent primer backwards...(upside down?) Get over it guys...Dippers were here first....

 

[Berek]

I got the same card scale thing that came with the dippers. I was just wondering about the difference that I find between the grain values on the chart and what it actually weighs on my scale. You know, kinda like an "is this normal" type thing... Oh well. I know what I load with the dippers and it works for me, maybe we should just drop it?

Berek

 

[therealsteamer]

Yep, you are right..

I have had the same issue with the Lee dippers. This led me to discover the art of making my own dippers which are "calibrated" to the charge I need. For low power 9mm loads using Unique and the .5cc dipper I just run it through the powder and charge the case with everything that the dipper will hold, handle and all. Not the most precise system, but it is impossible to get anything above a very mild load.

 

[Fumbler]

Sorry there berek, I thought you were refering to the reloading data LEE sends with their dies.
I dunno why there's a discrepency between your measured weights and the slide rule.

I don't know why some people have a problem with dippers either. If you use a powder thrower you're measuring by volume too.

 

[mattdus]

I also use the dippers. its a lot faster than weighing every single round with my scale. I do weigh about 10 rounds to be sure I am getting a consistent weight / volume, I then weigh the charge for about every 20th round though.
also if I can't get my load withing proper weight range with the dippers then I go back to weighing each charge. I can easily load 500 rounds a night with my dippers but trying to do 100 rounds weighing each charge becomes tedious and is hard to get through doing.

 

[Rabid Rabbit]

I never cared for the dippers, so after I figured I have no need to hang on to them I gave the dippers to my kids for sand toys. My son is figuring out how long it takes to empty a sand box with a .5cc dipper.

 

[Berek]

Please do yourself a favor and dont use dippers. Buy a scale. Its much cheaper than the Copay on a trip to the emergency room.

I don't have a co-pay...


Berek

 

[Khornet]

Volume is what counts

that's why benchrest shooters throw charges instead of weighing them. Humidity could certainly change your thrown or dipped weight from day to day but the consistency of your loads would not change as long as your technique did not change. I wouldn't worry if your charge weighs differently from what Lee says it should. Just dip consistently and be happy.

 

[Sunray]

"...Anyone else notice this?..." Yep. They're seriously inconsistent. Plus or minus a full grain. Not a big deal with most loads, unless you're loading at maximum, or don't care too much about accuracy. Inconsistent powder charges can and will change your POI and group size.
"...conquered Briton..." That'd be Brittany. Seems to me Brittany was one of William's first, um, acquisitions.

 

[RecoilRob]

No one has mentioned the real reason the dipper scale is sometimes wrong. It is not because the dippers are innacurate or inconsistant. Quite the contrary, if they are used in a consistant manner they will deliver a very repeatable charge.

The problems happen when the density of the powder being dipped changes.....like when you change powder lots. This can and will change the weight of the same volume thrown.

I have seen over 2 grain difference changing lots of rifle powders using the same setting on my measure. The powder manufacturers do a great job of keeping performance consistant with a constant charge WEIGHT....but the volume of powder needed to achieve this said weight WILL change sometimes from lot to lot.

The Lee sliding dipper calculator cannot be totally spot on but, instead, I believe is intended to allow you to get close to what you want with a measure of safety thrown in if you don't have a scale handy.