Legal description of common Pocket knife

[JPM70535]

I need a little help from someone familiar with Florida law about what constitutes a common pocket knife. I thought that I was pretty well up to date on the weapons laws, since I spent the last 20+ years in LE both in FL. and LA., but the following has me scratching my head.

My son was recently arrested for illegal carryig of weapons. The weapon in question was a Balisong , (Pacific Cutlery model 68 with a 3" utility blade ) that he uses on his job at a body shop to cut tape and open boxes etc.

I found it unreasonable for the charge to have been filed, so I did a little research in my Florida Statutes and to my amazement was not able to find the definition for a common pocket knife , which can be legally carried without a CCL.

The deputy who made the arrest stated that if my son had gotten his CCL he could have legally carried that knife or a switch blade and been legal.

I can not believe that a single edge manually operated knife is rendered illegal simply because of the handle construction (Balisong)

I would greatly appreciate any information reference the law in Fl., and any similar circumstances among the menbers and the outcome of same. If anyone knows of an Attorney who has succeesfully defended and won such a case, please post same.

I figure that out of all the members of THR, someone will have the info I need.

JPM70535

 

[mtnbkr]

Balisongs do not fall under the description of a common pocketknife in most states. In fact, many explicitly describe balisongs under their "prohibited weapons" statutes, along with autos.

Chris

 

[cookhj]

mtnbkr is right, i believe VA has that statute, which is silly beings that you can open up any of the newer tactical folders quicker than a bali song.

you son might get lucky when he goes to court if he has a good lawyer.

 

[hso]

Go to bladeforums.com and ask the question there and contact Bernard Levine at http://www.knife-expert.com/pages/523051/index.htm

 

[brownie0486]

In many states, balisongs are considered a form of "gravity" knife, making them illegal.

Perhaps someone should have checked the laws before carrying it, not after.

Hope the kid makes out without a record. As the saying goes, ignorance is no excuse for violating the law.

BTW--Most states dangerous weapons statutes do not list what IS acceptable or considered a pocket knife/jackknife. They list restrictions of carrying certain types of items. If you do not see it as a restriction, it's usually legal to possess and carry, with other certain restrictions as well such as blade length, etc.

Brownie

 

[Phantom Warrior]

This is one of my pet peeves...

For some reason, legally a balisong or butterfly-style knife is often restricted just like automatic knives. I'm guessing (this is just a hypothesis) that laws like that were passed back when top quality knives were like this. They had to be dropped into a pocket or carried in a belt sheath, required two hands to open and close, and were generally slow to deploy. Back then the idea of a knife you could deploy quickly and one-handedly (you can do both w/ a balisong with very little practice) was a novelty and possibly considered quite dangerous. It's also possible that they had associations with criminals, similar to the bad aura surrounding "switchblade." I could easily see those laws being passed in that time period and still being enforced today. It is also possible they were passed by legislatures more recently that were simply missinformed (think .50BMG rifle ban). Either way, there is no reason for them to be restricted while you can buy a clipped, one-handed opening folder that you can deploy very rapidly, arguably faster than a balisong. But common sense has never stopped laws from being passed or enforced.
I personally lost a $120 Benchmade Model 42 when I was in Washington, D.C. That was mostly my own stupid fault cuz I tried to put it somewhere while I toured the FBI building and a cop found it and stuff. I could easily have been arrested, so I suppose I came out ahead in the long run. That doesn't make it any easier to swallow the fact that it was taken though.
Bottom line, your son may be in a tough spot. Hope everything turns out well.

 

[hso]

FYI http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=273494

 

[brownie0486]

The balisongs were banned in the early sixties and entered into the dangerous weapons laws of most states due in large part to the movie west side story with james dean.

The cult that followed his leads in the movies made the butterflys very popular on the streets. It was a perception of the types of people who would carry such a knife as undesirable/bad boys in persona that brought about their illegality.

It's not the only reason, but was one of the contributing factors to their being included as a restricted item on the streets of the USA.

Brownie

 

[hso]

The argument used against balisongs is that they qualify as "gravity" knives or as knives that open by inertia (someone wanna tell me how they got the physics there confused I'll grant you a BS in Science ) and thereby fall under the auto knife laws. Ignore the fact that the blade and other side of the handle both fall down and you have make the additional step to fold or flip the handle half into place to expose the blade. Where there is a provision for restricting or banning carry of autos or gravity knives (but no specific prohibition on balis) the carrier of a balisong needs to understand the restrictions.

 

[vertigo7]

H.B. 1227 passed and enacted into law by Governor on 6/3/03 - automatic (switchblade) knives are once again legal. You need a CCW to have them on your person when off your property.

Why you have to have a CCW for a legal knife, I have no idea. I can't find anything addressing so-called gravity knives, or assisted-opening knives like my Kershaw Blackout.

 

[hso]

Assisted opening knives do not meet the definition of automatics (device on handle causes the knife to open automatically) and have not been specifically included in the list of knives defined to be prohibited.

Carry is different than posession. When a state prohibits carry, but leaves possession open you may consider the state to be a "collector state".

 

[Jim March]

JPM70535:

Take all of the information above that is non-state-specific and discard it. You have a particular state-law issue going on.

Then take all of the Florida-specific info that does NOT cite to actual Florida law by number or quote from same, and throw that out too.

Huh. Well that's all of it. Whoops.

Now go to a law library or look up online the ACTUAL STATUTES. Do that next, before seeing a lawyer, before doing anything else.

When you do, keep in mind that it's illegal in all 50 states to enforce a criminal law that is so unclear, it's impossible to figure out if you're breaking it or not. That is a due process violation under the 14th Amendment, for starters.

Your son's knife is a single-edge blade of only 3", which is just classic for a "common pocket knife".

Assuming the statute doesn't SAY Bali-songs/Butterflies are banned (which is likely), what I'd do is get the arresting cop up on the stand, hand him a typical 3" thumbstud linerlock, and ask him if that's a "typical pocketknife". Then either have your lawyer open it, or have the cop do so. Then have the lawyer do the same for the Bali - which is SLOWER than modern thumbstud knives.

Then make the point to the jury that there's no speed advantage to the Bali, there's no blade length advantage and if as I suspect there's no *statute* directly banning Balis, howinhell was he supposed to know that one was banned because larger versions were popular with gangbangers approximately 30 years ago when "West Side Story" came out??