Legal to shoot another person's gun in your state?

[morcey2]

morecy2, NJ does not require your guns to be stored at a range. They do require you be present when the gun is used by someone else. You seem to misinterpret what I said. I'm not defending NJ gun laws as they do suck but want to ensure you understand what I said before you use it in an argument.

I wasn't saying that was the law anywhere in the US, but it is the law in many parts of the world. It is also, I believe, a step on the path to totally abolishing private ownership of firearms in the US. I didn't state it very well, though, in my original post.

Matt

 

[Deanimator]

Shoot, loan, give, as long as the recipient's not a prohibited person, I can do whatever I want in Ohio.

 

[Twiki357]

Glad I’m in Arizona. Other than those stupid gun free zones, about the only restrictions are from the Fed.

 

[Davek1977]

the way my mind works is bizarre at times. I read the subject heading, and thought someone was in all seriousness asking about the legality of the old western trick of shooting the gun out of someone's hands! I felt kind of silly when I realized what was actually being asked

 

[Tactical Lever]

the way my mind works is bizarre at times. I read the subject heading, and thought someone was in all seriousness asking about the legality of the old western trick of shooting the gun out of someone's hands! O felt kind of silly when I realized what was actually being asked

So that's not a thing now? I feel like such a nerd!

Just how are the cool kid's doing it now??

That is a messed up law. Here it is worded more like "in care and control" concerning letting anyone without a license shoot your guns. Some of the more restrictive states are worse than here in some regards. But we have our own stupid laws too.

 

[HankR]

I can not only let somebody shoot my firearm, but if they like it and hand me enough money, they can have it.

That's the way it is most places. They treat the gun almost as if it's your own personal property, for you to do with as you see fit. Imagine.

 

[Theohazard]

^^^ And that's the way it's always been here in WA. Pretty sad that that might change, and all due to their ability to trick the public.

 

[Red Wind]

And that's the way it's always been here in WA. Pretty sad that that might change, and all due to their ability to trick the public.

Can Washington be sliced into 2 states? Slice down about the line of Remmel Mountain. Let the left coast of the state drift off the Continental Shelf.

All will be better in good time.

 

[Spats McGee]

I realize that most of this discussion centers around WA, but part of the question was: "Legal to shoot another person's gun in your state?"

In short, yes. In AR, I can loan a gun out, give it away, sell it without a background check, as long as I don't violate federal law in doing so.

 

[happygeek]

No one has mentioned it yet, so I will. To make I-594 even worse, you have to bear in mind that 01 FFLs in WA are already required to collect usage tax when they transfer firearms. So if you want to legally loan your uncle a hunting rifle under I-594 he'll pay a $25 transfer fee + 9.3% of the gun's value. After the hunting trip you'll pay a $25 fee + that same 9.3% to get your gun back.

 

[Drop45]

Thank God Indiana is still FREE

 

[Midwest]

No one has mentioned it yet, so I will. To make I-594 even worse, you have to bear in mind that 01 FFLs in WA are already required to collect usage tax when they transfer firearms. So if you want to legally loan your uncle a hunting rifle under I-594 he'll pay a $25 transfer fee + 9.3% of the gun's value. After the hunting trip you'll pay a $25 fee + that same 9.3% to get your gun back.

NJ requires sales tax to be collected on their mandatory $15 State NICS fee.
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[Wyatt]

So what happens if you transfer (loan) a gun to friend via your FFL and for whatever reason they decide to keep it. Is a transfer a change of ownership? Will lawyers be needed to draft loan documents

I also wonder about being stopped by police. If they see a gun in the back seat of your vehicle and decide to do a weapons record search! What happens if the gun description doesn't match their records? Will that give justification for vehicle searches and further records checks?

 

[JR47]

Georgia has none of these inept laws.

 

[happygeek]

NJ requires sales tax to be collected on their mandatory $15 State NICS fee.

I-594 would be worse, if NJ's tax is only on the $15. For example, Joe in WA goes on budsgunshop and buys himself a $1,000 AR. Of course he has to have it shipped to a 01 FFL. The catch is WA requires that 01 FFL to collect a 9.3% usage tax at the time of transfer. So Joe pays $1,000 + shipping + transfer fee + $93 usage tax. (The exact percentage changes by county, some are higher than 9.3%.)

So if Joe has a $1,000 hunting rifle that he wants to loan his uncle, to do so legally under the proposed I-594 Joe is looking at paying $30 transfer + $93 usage tax to loan it to his uncle and that same $30 + $93 to legally take possession of his gun after the uncle is done borrowing it ... yikes

God forbid you're going out of state for awhile and wish to leave your guns in a family member's safe so they don't get stolen while you're gone. You'd be paying 9.3% of your collection's value ... twice.

Edit to add: you can substitute pretty much any 'transfer' in place of "loan a hunting rifle", to do so legally under I-594 you're getting prohibitively taxed. No more letting people put a few rounds through your gun at a range, heck letting them handle it would be illegal.

I love how in all the ads they keep talking about "gun sales". This bill is not about sales at all, it's about transfers. I only hope the voters realize what a transfer is and what legally doing one means and how much it costs.

 

[Leanwolf]

How hypocritical of the mega-millionaires and billionaires who are donating gigantic $$$$ to pass the Washington anti-gun law, that they all have very well armed, very expensive body guards.

They could not care less about the U.S. Constitution, or the "unwashed worker peasants," out in the hinterlands.

Raving hypocrites, one and all.

L.W.

 

[pseudonymity]

Lets not forget that while some millionaires choose to spend their money to push to restrict the RKBA, others do just the opposite. Not too long ago a millionaire hired a civil rights attorney at a discounted rate to test the limits of the 2A, and today the final outcome of that case is known as Heller v. DC.

 

[Legionnaire]

None of that silliness here in PA. Handguns do have to be transferred through a dealer or sheriff's office except in the case of immediate family members; not sure what might constitute a "loan." But range outings where we have opportunity to try out and shoot others' guns, including handguns, are common occurrences.

 

[Midwest]

As bad as NY State gun laws are (and yes they are bad). Handguns there can only possessed by a person with pistol permit and the handgun has to be listed on the permit.

No one else can use that pistol...however...as insane as NY State gun laws are. At least in NY State if someone adds a pistol to their pistol permit, they can possess and use the handgun. So if a husband and wife wants to use the same handgun, they both can add it to each pistol permit and everything is legal. If Uncle Joe wants to shoot your pistol, as long as he adds it to his permit then everything is legal.

From what I am gathering from this Washington State law, it will be worse than NY state in that there is no legal process in place for these purposes mentioned above. I could not imagine anything worse than NY State handgun laws...until now.

I hope y'all able to defeat I-594. The rest of the country is watching closely.
Good Luck
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[Fredericianer]

Interesting thread. Quick question if I may, how would foreign nationals (on vacation for example) be treated under this. Would they also be classified as 'prohibited persons' ?

 

[Frank Ettin]

Interesting thread. Quick question if I may, how would foreign nationals (on vacation for example) be treated under this. Would they also be classified as 'prohibited persons' ?

For the applicable federal law, see 18 USC 922(g)(5):

(g) It shall be unlawful for any person—

(1) …

(2) …

(3) …

(4) …

(5) who, being an alien—

(A) is illegally or unlawfully in the United States; or

(B) except as provided in subsection (y)(2), has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa (as that term is defined in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101 (a)(26)));​

(6) …

(7) …

(8) …

(9) …
​

to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce, or possess in or affecting commerce, any firearm or ammunition; or to receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.

and 18 USC(y):

(y) Provisions Relating to Aliens Admitted Under Nonimmigrant Visas.—

(1) Definitions.— In this subsection—

(A) the term “alien” has the same meaning as in section 101(a)(3) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101 (a)(3)); and

(B) the term “nonimmigrant visa” has the same meaning as in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101 (a)(26)).​

(2) Exceptions.— Subsections (d)(5)(B), (g)(5)(B), and (s)(3)(B)(v)(II) do not apply to any alien who has been lawfully admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa, if that alien is—

(A) admitted to the United States for lawful hunting or sporting purposes or is in possession of a hunting license or permit lawfully issued in the United States;

(B) an official representative of a foreign government who is—

(i) accredited to the United States Government or the Government’s mission to an international organization having its headquarters in the United States; or

(ii) en route to or from another country to which that alien is accredited;​

(C) an official of a foreign government or a distinguished foreign visitor who has been so designated by the Department of State; or

(D) a foreign law enforcement officer of a friendly foreign government entering the United States on official law enforcement business.​

 

[OilyPablo]

The main problem with I 594 here is that it seems so poorly worded it could range from merely nasty to way worse than New York. The writers say you can transfer no questions asked to relatives but it does not read that way.

 

[stressed]

They tried to pass something like that here in CO when they passed the latest anti gun laws. Once the wording came out they were forced to change it in order for the bills to pass.

That's the problem _ they slowly chip away at our rights. Watch, they go "Oh, ok .. to get these mag restriction laws passed we gotta leave this one out" so they do, then they wait for everything to die down... the Boom try and go ahead with a law like this. And if they could pass this, they'll wait for everything to die down again... Then put forward a new law restricting our rights even more. And so forth.

 

[CoRoMo]

When I talk to people about it, and shed light on the full text/mission of the bill, people overwhelmingly respond with, "So what?"

Many people just don't care.

Just to give you further evidence of how hard it is going to be for you guys to drum together the support you need to defeat this tyranny, our state residents and gun owners acted just as complacent.

As I did what I could to earnestly educate and motivate people into action here, ten out of ten gun owners that I spoke with said, "So what? I'll just do it anyway. They'll never know."

Whether I detailed the consequences of loaning, borrowing, gifting, or buying a gun or a magazine, nobody I spoke to cared what was going down at the state capital.

 

[Midwest]

There are several regional events that have become national hot button issues in the pro-gun community. I-594 is an important issue.

Top regional issues/events that became national stories

Shaneen Allen CCW case in NJ
I-594 Washington State
Colorado's Governor Race
Moms Demand Kroger ban open carry

Even the NJ Gun Forums are talking about I-594
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