Legalities of moving your handgun from....

[Ed Ames]

Kind of like the folks that show up at a protest with their AR15 on a one [point sling and then stand there and stare at the protestors while fondling the rifle.......

That’s a good example of how fuzzy it can be. To one person that’s threatening, to another it’s standing around with a rifle, and it’s up to you if you want to find out how it will be treated in a given time and place.

 

[Texasgrillchef]

I cannot picture what you are describing.

Are you carrying a large handgun in a concealed shoulder holster when you are not driving, drawing it when you are outside the car, and putting it into a gun safe before driving away because it is not comfortable to drive with it holstered?

My apologies for not explaining better.
I arrive at my location, a trailhead to go hiking the back country. I get out of my vehicle, go to the back and open my gun safe where I put on my open carry shoulder chest holster, then pull the 454 out of the safe and insert it into my holster. He gun is openly carried. The holster is legal as An open carry holster.

when I am done hiking, I come back to my vehicle, remove the 454 and the holster and place it back in my vehicle gun safe. Close up my safe, get in the drivers seat and drive off.

 

[Texasgrillchef]

Kind of like the folks that show up at a protest with their AR15 on a one [point sling and then stand there and stare at the protestors while fondling the rifle.......

I have always found that to be very borderline, and in some cases I think a form of brandishing. One thing I do believe though, is that it doesn’t really help our cause of obtaining more gun rights and more gun freedoms.

 

[Texasgrillchef]

OK. In that case I think you may do better leaving out the legal citations and ask your question in a more general way. The world is full of Internet Lawyers who don’t like people trying to use a Socratic approach to learning.




So, to give an example of what I just said... It isn’t that holding a gun is brandishing unless it’s self defense.

There is something called brandishing. Doing it is a crime. But it isn’t just holding a gun outside of a self defense situation. It’s using a gun to threaten or intimidate.

The problem is that any time you are holding a gun it may be interpreted as brandishing. If someone sees you and feels threatened or intimidated, they can accuse you of brandishing. Then it’s this whole big thing you’ve got to deal with. That doesn’t mean it is, but do you really want to have to argue about it? No. In the case of a self defense situation, proving you were defending yourself will hopefully also serve to prove you weren’t brandishing, but either way you’ve gotta do what you’ve gotta do.

Holding a gun in public, outside of a self defense situation, may run afoul if other laws, but if we assume you aren’t breaking those then it’s perfectly legal. Otherwise you couldn’t go to a shooting range, gun store, hunt, etc.. Maybe not safely legal because as I mentioned you can get accused, but it’s not against the law.

So, the trick is to transition your firearm in a way that doesn’t cause anyone to think you are brandishing. Easiest is to not be seen. But if you are seen and it’s obvious you are being safe, it’s not a big deal. One way people avoid accusations is to leave the gun holstered (which has other advantages) but that’s just one way.

You make a good point, if one just removes the holster with the gun still in it and places it into the vehicle in safe. It would even harder to prove brandishing or illegal open carry. Then again a few times I have waited around a bit to go to my vehicle because people were around and I didn’t want them to see where I might store my guns in the vehicle, or even how. I didn’t mind them seeing me open carry as much as where they were stored in the vehicle, some I have noticed were open carrying as well.

 

[JohnKSa]

...shoulder chest holster...

What differentiates a "shoulder chest holster" from a "shoulder holster"? Is a "shoulder chest" the same thing as a "shoulder"?

if there is a difference, what makes you believe carrying a gun openly in a "shoulder chest holster" as opposed to the mandated "shoulder holster" or "belt holster" is legal?

Here's what I suggest. If you want to carry openly in TX with a TX handgun license to carry, get yourself a shoulder holster or a belt holster as mandated in TX law. Don't get a "shoulder chest holster" because that's not what's mandated in the law for open carry. Don't get a "belt arm holster", or a "shoulder stomach holster", or a "neck shoulder holster" or an "calf ankle holster" or any other type of holster that's not a shoulder holster or a belt holster. Don't get a chest rig and call it a "shoulder chest holster" in an attempt to make it sound legal. Don't get a pocket holster and call it a "belt pocket holster" to make it sound legal. Any holster maker or seller will be able to help you pick a holster that is a shoulder holster or belt holster and will help you differentiate those two types of holsters from other types of holsters. That is useful since all other types of holsters are not legal for TX open carry.

Get a good one, one that you can wear comfortably while performing normal everyday operations like walking, driving, bending, sitting, etc. so you don't have to take it off and put it back on all the time.

Since you won't have to take it off and put it back on, you won't have to worry if having it IN a shoulder or belt holster but not actually WEARING the holster is legally problematic. You won't have to worry about the period of time while the gun isn't being worn but is being exposed.

This will take care of the concerns you have mentioned so far with regard to TX open carry law.

If you do not want to carry in a belt or shoulder holster all is not lost. TX law allows a permit holder to carry via ANY desired method if the handgun is concealed.

So there are your choices. Wear it in a belt holster or shoulder holster openly. Carry it any way you like as long as it's concealed. Pick one. Done. Easy.

 

[Ed Ames]

My apologies for not explaining better.
I arrive at my location, a trailhead to go hiking the back country. I get out of my vehicle, go to the back and open my gun safe where I put on my open carry shoulder chest holster, then pull the 454 out of the safe and insert it into my holster. He gun is openly carried. The holster is legal as An open carry holster.

when I am done hiking, I come back to my vehicle, remove the 454 and the holster and place it back in my vehicle gun safe. Close up my safe, get in the drivers seat and drive off.

Can you post a link to your holster? Sounds interesting.

But here’s the thing: in your scenario you have a couple of things going on that absolutely could get you in trouble if someone wanted you to be in trouble. And they aren’t necessary. But they aren’t guaranteed to be a problem. They fall within discretion and what people infer of your intentions and a bunch of other things you cannot control. Best to avoid that if you can.

For example: in your scenario you are doing what many hunters do every year. It’s a ritual that has played out from California to Florida, Texas to Montana, everywhere that public land hunting exists. Same sort of holster, gun, location, everything. As such, it’s going to be of interest to anyone who has a concern about poaching. They might come over to see if you have a hunting license. They might not believe you if you say you aren’t hunting. That’s a potential problem.

 

[CapnMac]

I arrive at my location, a trailhead to go hiking the back country. I get out of my vehicle, go to the back and open my gun safe where I put on my open carry shoulder chest holster, then pull the 454 out of the safe and insert it into my holster. He gun is openly carried. The holster is legal as An open carry holster.

when I am done hiking, I come back to my vehicle, remove the 454 and the holster and place it back in my vehicle gun safe. Close up my safe, get in the drivers seat and drive off.

Now, from my place as a Reasonable Person, that exactly complies with the statute involving transport to/from legitimate activities. The code goes to some extents in describing its leniency for various activities.

That is predicate upon a "reasonable man" execution of the task, naturally. If you draw the arm from its shoulder holster and hold it in the air, dancing circles, and hooting, that is not a simple act of transferring from one allowed carriage to another.

You allude to the potential for outrage--and it's very true that we are surrounded by hopolophobic snowflakes fully committed to "outrage culture"--but that is a variable that cannot be addressed by statute.

And, by my read of it, would require a jury to determine the facts of it. Which would require someone in LE to act, and a prosecutor to concur in that to the point of bringing it to trial by a jury.

One of the unfortunate consequences of the fifty years of GCA '68 criminalizing all gun ownership (excepting very narrow specifications) is that, we, in the gun community, know that we retain our rights by a slender thread. But, there is no way to guarantee that any one person is 100% "legal." Yet, we have to live with the onus of having to be 100% legal to retain our rights.

Your question presumes that there is a 100% answer. Those really do not much exist.

 

[Kleanbore]

Your question presumes that there is a 100% answer. Those really do not much exist.

True.

If one is returning to a a car parked at a trailhead, I would imagine that the most likely potential issues would have to do with things like hunting.

How about putting the gun on and taking it off and exposing it for some seconds in a crowded parking lot?

That would involve more risks, including perhaps that of receiving a command to drop the gun immediately, and, if one were not quick enough.....

 

[dogtown tom]

My apologies for not explaining better.
I arrive at my location, a trailhead to go hiking the back country. I get out of my vehicle, go to the back and open my gun safe where I put on my open carry shoulder chest holster, then pull the 454 out of the safe and insert it into my holster. He gun is openly carried. The holster is legal as An open carry holster.

when I am done hiking, I come back to my vehicle, remove the 454 and the holster and place it back in my vehicle gun safe. Close up my safe, get in the drivers seat and drive off.

Wait........what? First you are at a mall, now that mall parking lot has a trailhead to the back country?
Instead of wasting your brain on hours of "what ifs" think about getting a carry gun you can actually carry.

 

[Frank Ettin]

...Your question presumes that there is a 100% answer. Those really do not much exist.

And that is probably the best response possible.