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Legality of a .410 pistol

Discussion in 'Legal' started by PAC 762, Dec 9, 2005.

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  1. PAC 762

    PAC 762 Member

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    I'm building a single shot pistol and am thinking of chambering it for .410 shotgun shells. My understanding is, is that it needs to be rifled, but straight rifling is OK. Am I correct? How much attention needs to go into the "rifling"? Can I just machine two shallow grooves in the bore and call it rifling? I was thinking of a 4" barrel, so only the last inch would be rifled. Is this a concern only having the last inch rifled? I only plan on using it for informal plinking, so performance is not really a concern.

    Thanks,
    PAC
     
  2. Hkmp5sd

    Hkmp5sd Member

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    Not really sure about the technicalities regarding the rifling, but you can always make it for in .45LC, which just happens to accept a .410 shell.

    I have this animal chambered for the .410/.45LC. It has about 1" or so of rifling right at the end of the barrel.

    410a.jpg
     
  3. Third_Rail

    Third_Rail Member

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    Is that one of those put it together yourself kits? Where'd you get it?
     
  4. Kurush

    Kurush Member

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    I have heard this theory before, and while it seems logical the ATF doesn't obey logic, it obeys the US Code. If I were you I would write up a design and submit it to the ATF firearms technology branch. If they say it's an AOW, you have the option of paying the AOW tax and suing for a tax refund, which will get a court to rule on whether it's an AOW or not. Going ahead with it based on an unproven loophole would be ill advised.
     
  5. Azrael256

    Azrael256 Member

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    Er, no. A .45LC chamber will definitely not accept a .410 shell. This is why it's a gray area: A .410 chamber will, however, accept a .45LC, and with a little rifling you have a pistol. Sort of. I'd submit the design to avoid any potential hassles.
     
  6. steveno

    steveno Member

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    buy a TC Contender and be done with
     
  7. Hkmp5sd

    Hkmp5sd Member

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    No, it's one of the derringers made by Cobray. They make a dozen or so designs in .410/45LC. Due to the rifling, they are all non-NFA items.

    Ok...a .45reallyLong&sloppyColt chamber.
     
  8. boofus

    boofus Guest

  9. X Who

    X Who Member

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    Polygonal rifling?

    How would polygonal rifling perform in a .410 pistol? Maybe with a slow rate of twist?
     
  10. PAC 762

    PAC 762 Member

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    HK- Is your derringer rifled straight, or with a twist?

    Does anyone else have a .410 pistol barrel that they can check the rifling for me?

    Steveno- A T/C is big, heavy, expensive, and requires no skill or imagination to acquire. My homemade pistol will be small, light, cheap, fun to build, and lacking any silly serial numbers or other garbage .gov mandates from licensed manufacturers..... I just want to make sure I'm following the law prior to going forward.

    I think I'll write the ATF with a description of my project and get an opinion, but I'd still like to know if other manufacturers are using straight or twist (or other) rifling.
     
  11. k_dawg

    k_dawg Member

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    Bond Arms sells deringers with the .410/.45LC.

    The version I have seen, has only two very fine, almost straight ( but not quite ) grove on the last 1" of the barrel.

    And that's legal for sale [ at least in Florida ] with no NFA.

    I believe they do sell one, only for the .45LC, which has standard polygon rifling.
     
  12. Hkmp5sd

    Hkmp5sd Member

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    Very slight RH Twist
     
  13. GEM

    GEM Member

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    I think that some states have laws that mandate a 410 pistol has to be rifled but some don't. CA maybe one - this is is all a vague memory and should be checked out.
     
  14. Kurush

    Kurush Member

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    No. Under federal law, a gun without a stock and with an unrifled barrel under 18" is an AOW ("any other weapon") and is papered just like a machine gun. There may be additional restrictions under state law but the NFA applies to the whole US.
     
  15. newfalguy101

    newfalguy101 Member

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    A barrel that short will only have about half a twist or so anyways, so the sraight rifling "should" work, I would most certianly contact ATF to be safe though.
     
  16. PAC 762

    PAC 762 Member

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    Thanks everyone. I already drafted a letter inquiring about the rifling requirements. I think I will use 2 very thin and very shallow grooves that have a noticable twist, so I will be on the safe side, but they will not affect patterning much.
     
  17. lbmii

    lbmii Member

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    Hey Hkmp5sd please tell us how that thing shoots.

    I wonder what the velocity of the 410 rounds are out of that thing.
     
  18. bubbygator

    bubbygator Member

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  19. Sheldon J

    Sheldon J Member

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    Bersa thunder, 6 shot .410 3" chamber, TC in .410, American arm's derringer in .410 there are a lot of pistols out there in .410 they just have to be made and certified that way.:cool:
     
  20. PAC 762

    PAC 762 Member

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    I wrote a letter to the BATFE and will mail it tomorrow. I will post the response when it comes. I'm fairly confident this is a doable project given the multiple examples in production. I'm going to start my build, but wait for formal opinion before making the barrel.
     
  21. Hkmp5sd

    Hkmp5sd Member

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    It isn't real pleasant to shoot. The grip is too small and rounded, making it hard to hang onto.
     
  22. armoredman

    armoredman Member

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    I like that Taurus! Nifty!
     
  23. Camp David

    Camp David member

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    Forgive the stupid question but how are you going to go "plinking" with a .410 shot? That's not really your normal "plinking" round!

    TC Contenders and numerous derringers are offered in the .45 LC/.410 caliber/gauge. You can also buy shot loads for the .45LC; though not true .410 loads they offer the same charge... The reverse, however, is not recommended; i.e., shooting a .45LC caliber round in a .410 gauge bore shotgun...

    ...as far as the "legality" of which you spoke, I can't help you... can't see as that would be a major issue....
     
  24. PAC 762

    PAC 762 Member

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    I received a 3 page response from the ATF. To sum it up, it requires rifling. There is no standard for length, depth, width, or amount of grooves, but they must impart spin on a projectile. I will be using two grooves, each 1" long, and with a shallow RH twist.

    Maybe I'll take up trap shooting when it's done. :)
     
  25. Suhler

    Suhler Member

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    PAC 762,

    Did you go ahead with your pistol project? If so, could you give us an update?

    Also, would you consider scanning your BATF letter (with your name and address blocked out, of course), and posting it here? Alternatively, would you consider emailing me a copy?

    I'm considering an almost identical project and the above would be very helpful.

    Best regards
     
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