Lengthening rounds that seated too short?

[Cloudpeak]

Well, in all of the cast bullet loads I worked up for my XD40 cal., I never had a FTF. I found a load that was very accurate and loaded 450+ rounds and have now found that they don't feed worth a hoot. They're too short and hang up on the feed ramp. So, can I buy an inertia puller, put some "shim's" in the bottom and use this to lengthen the rounds? I would make the round too long, re-seat and re-crimp. Is this practical or do I need to just pull all of the bullets, dump powder and start over again?

Thanks, Cloudpeak

 

[callgood]

If by "inertia puller" you mean one of the hammer type jobs like the one I have, fugedaboutit, you'll beat your arm off, kid. Those are godd for the occasional round, but from my experience 450 is a no go. I'd try one of the collet types you use on your press. I don't have any experience with one, but they have to be better than the inertia type.

 

[Oldnamvet]

Wear yourself out

That is what you will do with an inertia puller. I about beat a hole in a cement floor pulling the bullets from 20 rounds of .30-06. Never again. They work fine for an occasional round but 450.............!!! I'd also advise using a collet puller of some type that would fit on your press, pull the bullets, and start over. If I ever have to pull more than a few again, I'll be looking to go that route. A friend of mine had one years ago and he usually marred the bullets when he pulled them so you will want to watch out for that if you planned on reusing the bullets. That is something to consider when you are researching your options.

Take a look at:
http://www.midwayusa.com/rewriteaproduct/680804

 

[mscott]

With the time you'll have to put into fixing them, I think I'd just shoot 'em and deal with the jams. That should irritate you enough to remember to check one every so often when loading. The only problem I see is that a .40 is high pressure to begin with and by having the bullet too deep you have added more pressure. Be careful and watch for pressure signs.

 

[The Bushmaster]

Oh mscot...You are a sadistic person....

 

[Cloudpeak]

"With the time you'll have to put into fixing them, I think I'd just shoot 'em and deal with the jams. That should irritate you enough to remember to check one every so often when loading. The only problem I see is that a .40 is high pressure to begin with and by having the bullet too deep you have added more pressure. Be careful and watch for pressure signs."

Irritate is right.

You know, I shot a lot of loads with these cast bullets as I was working up loads to find the most accurate one. I probably shot 150 round or so with no problems. These are low power loads all worked up with the same seating depth so no pressure problems. Just feeding problems.

I can do the collet removal method and recast the bullets. I think that would be less frustrating that putting up with the jams. I still can't figure out why the test loads, which were the same OAL, worked fine and these don't. Problaby because I loaded so many ahead.

Cloudpeak

 

[pauli]

you guys are looking at this all wrong.

cloudpeak, you now have a clear reason to buy a 40/10mm revolver.

 

[ocabj]

That is what you will do with an inertia puller. I about beat a hole in a cement floor pulling the bullets from 20 rounds of .30-06. Never again. They work fine for an occasional round but 450.............!!!

Inertia pullers don't require that much effort. The problem is you were smacking it on concrete. Smack it against the end of a 2x4. You'll get better momentum since the hammer end of the puller won't be bouncing off the surface of wood so much as it would concrete. It's really easy to pull bullets over 100gr.

Now crimped 55gr .223 on the other hand is almost impossible with an inertia puller...

 

[pcf]

Are they too short that you can't taper crimp some of the bell out out of the case mouth (or some more of it)?

 

[halvey]

Once you get the hang of it, using a "hammer" puller is easy. I use mine on cement with a thin layer of carpet over it. The trick is to hit the cement (or carpet or 2x4) and get that "snap back". This is what will get that bullet out fast.


I've pulled over 200 of rounds in an hour.

 

[The Bushmaster]

Oh...Just shoot-em and start over. You, like me, probably need the practice anyway...

 

[BluesBear]

I just cut a piece of wooden dowel to fit inside my Quinetics kinetic bullet puller. I use a 12 inch section of railroad rail sitting on my workbench as an "anvil" for pulling.

You can pull bullets very fast this way. One or two hits should be all you'll need. You learn to control the bounce so that it actually helps you go faster.

Of course you'll need to run them through your seat/crimp die(s) again to make sure they're back to spec.

Collet pullers almost always leave deep marks on cast bullets. And you'll have no real control of how far the bullet is pulled. It's usually all or nothing.
With a kinetic puller you can set it to only partially pull the bullets.

 

[Sunray]

"...Smack it against the end of a 2x4..." A rock works better than either concrete or wood. The section of railroad rail is a good idea if you can get it.
However, are you sure the length is bad? Did the load work ok before? Measure the OAL, it may be a mag problem.
"...in the bottom..." In the bottom of what? Shims would be a bad idea anyway.
If you use a kinetic puller to try and lengthen them a tic, you'll lose the crimp. May be easier to pop 'em out a bit and re-crimp than pull and reload entirely. Part of reloading is the experimentation trying to fix minor errors.

 

[Cloudpeak]

Boy, do I feel dumb

The title says it all. I checked the width of the "lips" at the top of the mag before I got to the point where I was going to pull bullets. The mag I was using was .023" narrower than my other two mags putting the rounds lower than they should have been. I bent the lip outward and now there are no feeding problems. Then it finally dawned on me. I remembered dropping the mag. Sure enough, there was a mark where the lip was bent in a bit.
Now I'm off to display my stupidity (or feeble mind with CRS disease) to a couple of other groups.

Cloudpeak

 

[bdhawk]

a word of caution. sometimes bullets seated too deep can cause excessive pressures.

 

[Cloudpeak]

"a word of caution. sometimes bullets seated too deep can cause excessive pressures."

Thanks for trying to look out for me. The key phrase from the first post is "loads I worked up". IOW, the several hundred loads of different powder charges with the same bullet were all seated to the same depth. But, folks wouldn't automatically suspect that, I guess. But, you never know about someone's experience reloading and the low post count is a pointer to a "newbie". But, I've been reloading for 40 years, mainly for my ol' Ruger 44 flat top. But, thanks for trying to keep me out of trouble anyway.

Cloudpeak

 

[The Bushmaster]

No, no, no, Cloudpeak...The people on here tend to assume that you are an experienced handloader until you prove them wrong or by stating so. Everyone just wants to help in his/her own way. Why, some even have that "Fatherly" attitude...That may be what you are hearing. Besides I haven't been here that long either. And this is still the best site that I have found...

Do remember that we are trying to teach the beginner and/or the young and we tend to repeat ourselves...Sometimes to the point of being redundent. But it is for a good cause...

 

[Cloudpeak]

Bushmaster,

I didn't mean to sound overly critical. It's good to call out if you believe someone is about to do something bad and hurt themseleves. I guess my point would be, if you are working up loads and find one that is accurate, you are probably leaving the OAL the same. At least I always do. Only change one varible at a time---just changing the amount of powder. So, whether you loaded long or short would make no difference. You started with a low, safe powder charge and worked up, looking for signs of pressure along the way.

Now, if your "pet" load was at the top of the pressure range and you woke up one morning and decided it was time to do something really dumb and decided that you'd just set the OAL shorter to see what would happen, that wouldn't be a "good thing" as Martha would say. IOW, if you want a shorter cartridge, it would be more than prudent to start over with reduced powder charges and work your way back up.

Cloudpeak

 

[bdhawk]

cloudpeak

sorry, i didn't mean to be condsecending. i thought you loaded some rounds and accidently seated them too deep. the title of the thread was 'lengthening rounds seated too short'.
i don't have the time cranking the press you do, i have been loading about 32 years. i have made every mistake in the book, and have invented a few new ones. i thought you made an error and was trying to find a way to keep from dismantling 450+ rounds.

anyway, i thought the rounds were seated too deep and some were saying to go ahead and shoot 'em. if the loads were near max and bullets seated too deep.....well it could get exciting.

BTW, i have wanted to do the same thing, just not as many rounds. i am a cheapskate and try to save every bullet, primer and grain of powder i can. i would try to use my inertia puller and try to pull the bullets part way, then reseat them to the correct depth. it wasn't an exact science and frequently i would go ahead and completely knock out the bullet or not pull the bullet far enough. i learned something in this thread. putting something in the bullet puller to prevent the bullet from being pulled too far. i'm thinking you could use a piece of wooden dowel. who says you cannot teach an old dog new tricks?

once again, sorry if i came across like the south end of a north bound horse.

 

[Cloudpeak]

BDhawk,

It was a good call on your part. How would you or anyone else know whether I had 4 minutes or 40 years? Had I been a newbie, you could have saved me a gun & some digits. Hey, I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer or I would have remembered dropping the magazine and would have thought right off to check for damaged feed lips

Anyway, all ended well. The straightened feed lips are working well and I've fired a couple hundred rounds without a hitch. I like that plan a lot better than the inertia puller idea.

Thanks,

Cloudpeak

 

[1911user]

For future reference:

After pulling the bullets with a kinetic puller, I'd remove the decap rod from the sizing die then start over except keeping the good primer. That would ensure consistent ammo by eliminating case variations from pulling the bullets. I'd also reuse those bullets for practice ammo only. Kinetic pulling is likely to scuff or lightly damage them somehow.