Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

LEO Carry in MN

Discussion in 'Legal' started by usmarine0352_2005, Jun 19, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. usmarine0352_2005

    usmarine0352_2005 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2005
    Messages:
    2,797
    .
    If you are an LEO in MN can you off-duty carry in places like banks, schools, and airports?

    Not asking, why would you want to, just if you legally can.
    .
     
  2. psyopspec

    psyopspec Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2004
    Messages:
    4,159
    Location:
    Cape Cod
    I went so school in MN, and my college roommate's sister was married to a county LEO in the South Central part of the state. He carried everywhere because even when he was off duty, he was technically on call. Some jurisdictions not only allow it, but require badge/credentials and gun be on the individual officers even when not in uniform or on duty.
     
  3. sacp81170a

    sacp81170a Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2004
    Messages:
    2,410
    Location:
    Farmington, AR
    What psyopspec said, though it depends on the individual department's policy. Some big city departments don't allow their officers to carry off duty. :barf:
     
  4. usmarine0352_2005

    usmarine0352_2005 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2005
    Messages:
    2,797
    .
    I know that policy can be different, but I'm looking for MN state law.
    .
     
  5. GRIZ22

    GRIZ22 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2006
    Messages:
    4,910
    Not sure of MN but in most states LEOs are not limited in where they can carry. Laws prohibiting carry in banks, govt buildings, places that serve alcohol, etc apply to those with a carry permit.

    The agency the LEO works for may have rules, like no drinking and gun toting.
     
  6. isp2605

    isp2605 Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2004
    Messages:
    1,333
    There's federal law that addresses your question. It supercedes state laws. Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act of 2004. It gives all LEOs and qualified retired LEOs the authority to carry in all 50 states, Washington DC, and all US possessions. The only restrictions are government agencies can prohibit carrying on government property and private persons/entities can prohibit carrying on their property.
    http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=108_cong_public_laws&docid=f:publ277.108
    An agency may have internal policies restriction carrying by their officers but that would only be a policy violation and not a violation of law.
     
  7. usmarine0352_2005

    usmarine0352_2005 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2005
    Messages:
    2,797


    So a private business like a mall could prohibit you?


    And a government entity like a school?

    .
     
  8. Maelstrom

    Maelstrom Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2008
    Messages:
    722
    Location:
    HERE
    Yes and no.

    In a police officer's home state he has full police power and so falls under the portion of law which exempts police from certain prohibited acts (i.e. carrying concealed switchblades, prohibited places of carry, etc.)

    Once the police officer leaves his home state the federal law kicks in and he's essentially a CCW, subject to all the rules and regs.
     
  9. isp2605

    isp2605 Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2004
    Messages:
    1,333
    There's nothing in LEOSA that specifies home state or out of state. LEOSA applies to ALL states regardless of where the LEO is from or where he is, even while in his home state.
    LEOSA has nothing to do with switchblades or anything other than carrying a concealed handgun by active and qualified retired LEOs.

    Not so. Using your reasoning then LEOSA would have no effect in states like IL or WI which prohibit CCW by anyone. Clearly that is not the case. The stated purpose of LEOSA is to exempt qualified active/retired LEOs from state laws and restrictions. LEOSA exempts LEOs from state rules and regulations. That's stated specifically in the paragraph (a) of the act. For example, a state may restrict their CCW licensees from carrying in a bar. Qualified LEOs are not bound by that restriction. LEOSA is very clearly worded in that regard. The government can ONLY prohibit carrying in "any State or local government property, installation, building, base, or park." Unless the bar is owned by the government then the government cannot prohibit the qualified LEO from carrying there.

    Correct.

    Correct.
     
  10. jon_in_wv

    jon_in_wv Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2006
    Messages:
    3,816
    LEOSA is simple. IT allows qualified LEO and retired LEO to carry a concealed weapon in ALL 50 states and DC and PR exempt from any state or local laws prohibiting it. The only laws that restrict it are state or local laws that prohibited carry on specific government property. In my state of WV its courthouses, school grounds, the state capital, etc..... There is no difference if it is your state of residence or not.

    Private property owners still set the rules on their property. In my state the mall can prohibit carry but if you do all they ask you to do is surrender the weapon or leave. Likely I won't be able to come back though.

    IT does NOT have any effect on you employers policies. If you work for an agency that prohibits you or limits personal carry off duty as a condition of employment LEOSA does not effect that. It also does not grant any others powers that were not there before LEOSA. If you had no arrest authority in another state before, you still don't.
     
  11. usmarine0352_2005

    usmarine0352_2005 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2005
    Messages:
    2,797
    .
    So in their home state officers can carry in:

    1. Banks

    2.) Businesses (even if posted No Guns) like a Buffalo Wild Wings, MOA

    3.) Post Office

    4.) School




    And if there in a state that isn't their home state where they work regular CCW applies?
    .
     
  12. isp2605

    isp2605 Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2004
    Messages:
    1,333
    Nope.
    Forget anything about home state or out of state. LEOSA doesn't specify. No difference.
    Whether they can carry in a bank or business depends on the bank or business owner. If they post it no firearms then can't carry there. Those are private entities and only the owners of the entities can prohibit carrying, not the government.
    Post offices and schools are generally government entities, therefore the government can prohibit carrying there.

    Doesn't matter what the CCW rules are, they don't apply to LEOs and qualified retired LEOs. The ONLY restrictions that apply to LEOs and qualified retired LEOs are those restrictions imposed by the government but only on goverment property and restrictions imposed by private entities on their property.
    It doesn't matter if home state or out of state. Home state or out of state, all the same.
    As Jon in WV mentioned LEOSA is pretty simple and simply written. Where it gets screwed up is when someone tries interposing their own interpretation and adding things that aren't in it, such as, home state and out of state. Neither are mentioned in LEOSA.
     
  13. TheFallGuy

    TheFallGuy Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2009
    Messages:
    124
    This is what I learned in school. You can argue all you want but this is what my instructors told me. Keep in mind I am pursuing a law enforcement degree in Minnesota.

    While on duty an officer is exempt from any and all carry restrictions (schools,businesses, etc).

    While off duty it is to be treated with carry permit in all 50 states (no schools, etc). I was also told that discretion is a key factor. While it is legal to carry in a bar here, you shouldn't do it for obvious reasons etc.

    I AM NOT A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER. I AM TRAINING TO BE ONE. I don't want anybody mistaking me for an leo or claiming I said I was.
     
  14. jon_in_wv

    jon_in_wv Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2006
    Messages:
    3,816
    The whole purpose of the law was to alleviate the problems caused by the patchwork of different law regarding LEOs through out the country. In one state and officer could carry, in the next he can't, in the state he can he can't carry in a certain CITY, it was almost impossible to function without breaking the law regularly. NY officers are a perfect example. Some officers could carry in one burrow but now in another belonging to another jurisdiction. He would literally cross the street and be breaking the law. If he lived in Brooklyn, worked in Queens he could carry in Queens where he worked but not in Brooklyn where he lived. If he was required to carry off duty he had to move. What LEOSA does is exempt all qualified LEOs from these laws.
    Next we have to get it for everyone.

    TheFallGuy. Not all states prohibit carry in schools. Just the dumb ones. I disagree with telling law abiding gun toters they can't carry ANYWHERE except maybe a commercial airplane.
     
  15. GRIZ22

    GRIZ22 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2006
    Messages:
    4,910
    NY officers are a perfect example. Some officers could carry in one burrow but now in another belonging to another jurisdiction. He would literally cross the street and be breaking the law. If he lived in Brooklyn, worked in Queens he could carry in Queens where he worked but not in Brooklyn where he lived. If he was required to carry off duty he had to move.

    jon, could you please explain this? Not in LEOSA terms but what agency in NYC had regs like this? I worked as a LEO (Federal) in NYC and the NYC area for over 25 years and never heard of any LEO being restricted by borough.
     
  16. jon_in_wv

    jon_in_wv Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2006
    Messages:
    3,816
    I knew someone would call me out on that example. It was largely hypothetical. It would have been more realistic to talk about the issues that I hear happen along the New York/ New Jersey border or the DC area where the Officers may live in Maryland or another neighboring state. I meant to put a disclaimer on that example but I forgot.
    My info on NY has to do with conversations I had years ago with someone and could be completely false. It was meant to illustrate a point but it historical accuracy highly suspect. I don't even know what the heck a burough is unless your talking about a donkey. I hope the overall point and my poor attempt to paint an example wasn't completely lost though.
     
  17. GRIZ22

    GRIZ22 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2006
    Messages:
    4,910
    I don't even know what the heck a burough is unless your talking about a donkey. I hope the overall point and my poor attempt to paint an example wasn't completely lost though.


    Boroughs in NYC, Manhattan, Bronx, Queens, Brooklyn, and Staten Island (Kings), are all counties. Borough is also a municipal designation like city, town, village, township, etc but don't ask me what the difference is other than name. I was probably confused as I am familiar with the area. No problem!

    It would have been more realistic to talk about the issues that I hear happen along the New York/ New Jersey border or the DC area where the Officers may live in Maryland or another neighboring state.

    This was an issue with NYPD officers who live in counties bordering NJ. The easiest way to and from work was through NJ (NY to NJ to NY) and to stay legal they were supposed to lock their gun in the trunk before leaving NY and then get it out when they got to NY.
     
  18. jon_in_wv

    jon_in_wv Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2006
    Messages:
    3,816
    There ya go, thanks for clearing that up. Now back to Minnesota before this thread is totally hijacked. I'm originally a Minnesota boy and I plan on moving back in a few years.
     
  19. carebear

    carebear Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2004
    Messages:
    4,373
    Location:
    Anchorage, AK
    From Montana DOJ

    http://www.doj.mt.gov/enforcement/criminaljustice/concealedweapons.asp

     
  20. jon_in_wv

    jon_in_wv Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2006
    Messages:
    3,816
    Last week when I was traveling back to Minnesota I got pulled over in Ohio. The officer (nice guy BTW) asked for my license and registration/insurance. I was looking all over for my registration/insurance when I realized it must be in my glove compartment with my M beloved M&P 9c. He was standing right by the passenger window and I wasn't about to fish around in there with the weapon in plain sight. I said, "This is awkward but my registration/insurance are in my glove compartment with my weapon so you probably don't want me to fish around for it." He replied by asking if I had my CW Permit and I handed him my work I.D. He looked kind of confused and stated he didn't know I was covered by LEOSA. (or had never heard that we were) Luckily I also carry copies of the memo from the Attorney General, the Director of my agency, and a copy of the statute showing my limited arrest authority and I handed them to him. He read them and responded, "hey, you learn something new every day!" He ended up giving me a written warning and sending me on my way. I thought I was getting arrested for a minute there. I know I would have been good in the long run but I was traveling with my 7 year old daughter and I know she would have had a really scarey day. It all worked out in the end though.

    BTW: I really had a great time in Minnesota. There is NO place like home.
     
  21. SHvar

    SHvar Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Messages:
    648
    What I am told concerning NYC peace officers is that carry is legal and expected anywhere on or off duty, unless of course you are consuming alcohol. With so many off duty and present throughout the city at any given time they are expected to assist those on duty when physically and mentally capable should the situation arise.
    Basically when capable you are on duty, and can be called into work at any time.
     
  22. larry_minn

    larry_minn Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2003
    Messages:
    1,455
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Ok as a permit holder I can carry in banks, the NON secure area of airport and while drinking (as long as my BAC is uner .04)
    I can not in secure area of airport, courthouses, capital (unless I notify) post offices and schools.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page