LEO's and Citizens

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bogidu

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Question for LEO's on this forum. How do you feel about the 'armed citizen'? Those of us who are not in law enforcement, military, or any other professional organization, but who practice, train, & legally carry either openly or concealed?

When you have interactions with them, are you glad that they carry, or do you just wish that the average joe were all unarmed?

Thanks.
 
Things will be a bit biased on here and you won't get a true cross section of LEO attitudes toward 'citizen carry'.
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+1 !!!

This is an unashamedly\openly PRO crowd. Now ask your question by sneeking onto a LE forum out there and see what happens with varied answers from people and parts of the country :uhoh: :eek:
 
someone posted months ago a link where such a discussion was going on.. It was a LEO forum... and some things were not nice to read..
 
If any LEO's are on here please PM me. I am about to graduate from college and have been planning to get into LE for a long time. I could use some guidance!

Thanks.
 
In the real world it will vary by state, county, Dept, Officer, and how his/her day has been going. (as well as what started contact)

Normally in MN it has been "good" The worst was when I was NOT carrying. I got stopped for speeding ticket. I admitted I was speeding/Officer told me to come back to his squad. So I sit in pass seat as he writes ticket. (He did drop it 2mph so ticket was cheaper)
When he was done he asked if I had any questions. (since I had to pay already why not get my moneys worth) So I asked him. "Now it does NOT apply today because I don't have it along. I have a carry permit and IF I had my gun on me how would you have liked to been informed?"

I got a lecture on why I should NEVER carry a gun. If I ever carried a gun I better have at least $10k in CASH on me. I made the mistake of saying (that my understanding was )I couldn't use gun to protect property but only life.......

I figured I was lucky he didn't walk around car with nightstick "finding" smashed tail lights.
 
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I believe the officer that gave this ignorant response is from California-----Officers carry a weapon for the main purpose of "preservation of life". We, if I may speak for my fellow officers, do not carry a weapon to impress our family or friends.

I do not see any reason why a civilian needs to carry a concealed weapon for any reason.

I'm a firm believer that every person (in the our great country, the USA) should have the right to own and carry a weapon. But lets be realistic, this is not the "old west". Most city's have great police departments who will have units on scene in minutes, if not seconds.

Although I have a right to carry a weapon at all times, I rarely carry a weapon off duty and I live in a metro, 2nd largest in the US. I leave that up to the "on duty" officers to take care of business and I'll be a good witness for those officers.
2wheeldep is offline Reply With Quote
 
Here is a response from an officer whose hand I would like to shake----It is your right to carry a gun and your responsibility to protect yourself and your family, not mine.

Do not depend on us to protect you because we will not be there at the exact moment that may determine your fate.

Nobody cares more about your safety than you yourself does.

Our job is to protect society as a whole, not the individual.
_______and here is a response from a NYC officer--------- Well then put me down as the 2nd cop you've ever heard who's against it.

It might be a difference of opinion based on our locations. 2wheeldep and I live and work in large, densely populated cities. I've seen too many bar fights, road rage, parties, etc... that have gone out of control, and if guns were available, the beatings would have been murders.

If I lived in an area where there was no road rage, and people know almost everyone in the bars they hang out in, I might have a different perspective. But if I show up on a scene and there's someone else with a gun in his hand, he better be in uniform or have a badge, or there's a good chance he's getting dropped.

In some states there are strict regulation and training to get a CCW. In other states living there and having no criminal record is good enough for a CCW or open carry. The good guys get to carry guns, but so do the bad guys, if they haven't been arrested yet.

I'd rather not gamble my life on who is who.
NYCDep is offline Reply With Quote
_______
 
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In the same thread, posted by cpd169:

There's another fact reported by the F.B.I statisticians that we don't hear much about in LE circles, for obvious reasons, and that is that armed citizens successfully shoot and kill more violent felons each year than do the police and hit their intended target with better accuracy.
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I found this very interesting. I wish I could find the stats.
 
Regarding the NYC and CA officers, as someone said here this week, "We don't have to protect you and we won't let you protect yourself."

That's a perfect example of the "game preserve" theory of law enforcement. It doesn't matter if any individual antelope is killed by a lion, as long as there are enough antelope around to feed the desired number of lions. It would be "unnatural" for the antelope to grow fangs and claws and start disemboweling the lions.

I find such an attitude despicable.
 
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So I'm uncertain whether Home Depot George said this or if he was quoting, looks like he was quoting somebody else, so I'll simply author my comments to the author of these comments:

I believe the officer that gave this ignorant response is from California-----Officers carry a weapon for the main purpose of "preservation of life". We, if I may speak for my fellow officers, do not carry a weapon to impress our family or friends.

I do not see any reason why a civilian needs to carry a concealed weapon for any reason.

I'm a firm believer that every person (in the our great country, the USA) should have the right to own and carry a weapon. But lets be realistic, this is not the "old west". Most city's have great police departments who will have units on scene in minutes, if not seconds.

Although I have a right to carry a weapon at all times, I rarely carry a weapon off duty and I live in a metro, 2nd largest in the US. I leave that up to the "on duty" officers to take care of business and I'll be a good witness for those officers.
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My thoughts? Guess what, pal, you ARE A CIVILIAN. Just like me. Most CCW types have far greater training and experience with firearms than most cops. I once had a "disagreement" with a fella in a bar that happened to be a cop and his argument was basically the same - that cops were a separate class, that they had training, etc. I laughed in his face and told him he was no different than the rest of us and we were probably better shots. He got pretty red in the face and pointed his finger at me and stammered that he better "not ever catch me carrying a gun". Had I been in a more pissy mood, I'da figured out what yahoo department he worked for and lodged a complaint.

All I ask is this - give me the same right to protect myself and my family that the average cop on the street has. That the mayor has. That the president of the United States has.
 
I just read the same posting from the gentleman from LA. I'm relieved to know that a LEO will be where I need him within seconds.

(Remember, LA is where Superman and Spiderman and all the other super heroes hang out when they're not busy in the rural areas.)
 
I never took a survey but from the cops I know, I would be willing to bet that it's a
75% / 25% split in favor of concealed carry in Ohio by LEO's . However some cops are as passionate about outlawing guns as Sara Brady is, if that tells you anything.

Most cops realize that they are not going to be cops forever and they have to carry under concealed carry laws after retirement or quitting. Well, that is in most States. I know what the laws are in Ohio, because you can read the ORC at http://codes.ohio.gov/orc
 
I do not see any reason why a civilian needs to carry a concealed weapon for any reason.
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I think this gets filed under "your wife has the right to entertain a rapest for 25 minutes while the cops get around to her 911 call".

Long story stort, my wife had good reason to dial 911 about a suspecius man. A cop turned up 25 minutes later. Up till then she did not really think she needed to carry a gun either, until she realized it was her butt that would have had to deal with the situaion had it turned ugly.

I think the comment that some cops view society as a game preserve is right on the mark.
 
Regarding the assertion that most cities have great police departments and will have units on the scene in minutes rather than seconds, that's simply the dumbest rationale I've seen yet for opposing CCW. Facts:

1. The broad generalization that units will be on the scene in minutes (let alone seconds) is far from a universal truth, and it's disingenuous to even make that assertion.
2. In many situations, victims don't have minutes. They may have only seconds in which to act to save their own lives.
3. Even if units arrive in a timely manner, they may be unable to take timely action to save lives, particularly in a hostage situation. I'm sure we can all immediately recall many high-profile examples of this.

FYI, I used to teach hunter safety for many year in LA County, and put many LEO through my classes. I still have many LEO friends, but I have to honestly state that they were, collectively, the most UNSAFE handlers of firearms I've ever seen ouside of my military experience. It was a classic situation of familiary breeding carelessness. To their credit, most were in favor of CCW and railed against the stacked political deck that makes it extremely difficult, if not impossible, for an ordinary citizen to obtain a CCW in California.
 
Kentucky State Police officers that I have encountered have always exibited professional courtesy and have always visualy examined my forms of identification and CCW and let me go on my way.

The city police officers in the largest town in my county will always ask for my weapon, take my operators and ccdw license and verify that they are current. they ask for proof of insurance and registration. I always feel like they are trying to find any way they can to hassle me.


I live in a rural area that is at least 20 minutes from the nearest business establisment and 30 minutes from the nearest city limits. I have worked as a volunteer fire fighter in my early 20's and would rate the police response to wrecks, arson, ect. . time in my area at >15 minutes, which would vary depending on where the sherriffs patrols were. The SD maintains 2 patrol cars on duty between the hours of midnight and 7am. The KSP supposedly keeps 2 troopers on duty from thier post overnight, but they serve several surrounding counties during this time frame. In the case of immediate deadly force I will rely on my ccw instead of the police response.
 
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We don't have to protect you and we won't let you protect yourself
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Alot of the cops who have this attitude are focused only on themselves. In those posts, I saw time and again that they said "I don't want to have to have an increased risk to me with extra guns." In other words, "You people can get picked off like fish in a barrel just so I don't have to worry about a stray bullet." I wonder if these jerks would be willing to go in gun free after an active shooter so that they don't jeopardize the lives of the cops already in the building. If all those extra guns are dangerous, the cops ought to drop theirs too, right?

That's a perfect example of the "game preserve" theory of law enforcement. It doesn't matter if any individual antelope is killed by a lion, as long as there are enough antelope around to feed the desired number of lions. It would be "unnatural" for the antelope to grow fangs and claws and start disemboweling the lions.
Click to expand...

This is the best description of this LEO attitude I have ever seen. I'm sure I'll use it myself sometime.
 
I lurk on that site often, it's very interesting to see the different opinions of officers from around the country, even the way they interpret laws that seem to be cut and dry. I personally have relatives who are officers in NJ and most are NRA members and think the laws are idiotic in the state.
 
I think this depends on what part of the country you are in. Here in Idaho the officers I know from when I was in LE all took an oath to uphold the constitution. When I went through the academy our law teachers specified the importance of following the law and constitution when on the road and to always keep other's rights in mind. The reason I am not still in LE is because of the US VS. THEM attitude that cops get. I noticed myself getting it when I started hoping for another beat down or black-top boogy. Some cops can keep their compassion but others just see everyone as the BG. Once I saw myself becoming like the officers I didn't like I got a job as a security guard and went back to school and got my degree. Now I sell bullets for a living to people so that they can train and protect themselves.

That said, 99% of the cops here in town are great guys that really are on your side. I have only had to tell two to calm down and shutup.
 
As a former LEO, I welcome the private citizen excercising his/her legal
right to carry; so long as he/she meets all the requirements of fed/state
and local laws. I do not have a problem with it~! In todays society, I
think each individual is responsible for their (and in some cases, other's)
safety. In some cases, a legally armed citizen can be a LEO's
best friend. :uhoh:

You take a state patrol officer in any state, can be miles from a back-up
unit; and dealing with a un-cooperative felon on a traffic stop, can be a
very frighting experience. I'm quite sure he/she would welocme the help
of a legally, licensed citizen while he/she deals with the perp*. Its called,
"CITIZENS MAKING A DIFFERENCE"~! :D

* FootNote- I'm quite sure I would~! I would even write a very nice
at-a-boy/girl to the local newspaper. :)
 
What is amazing is how there attitude changes from oh he is just a short crippled vet to oh crap he might know how to use that weapon, the moment my CCW is handed to them. It's happened to me 3xs, and everytime it gets funnier. When I got my armored car liscence he asked if there was a second weapon we wanted to qualify with. I jumped to put on my .45 LC. After ripping the head off at the 7 yd line (12 shots) all I heard was a whistle from the instructor behind me. Guess I passed. Wasnt allowed to carry it just wanted to shoot it.
 
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