LEO's and Citizens

[gunnutery]

I'm an officer on a rural department in the midwest. I seem to be the only "gun nut" in the department (less than 10 officers). So as someone else pointed out this forum is going to be skewed. As the "gun nut" I am whole-heartedly for the arming of reponsible citizens. Even in a small town we (Police) can't be everywhere at once, therefore that means that we are usually not at the scene of a violent crime when it actually happens. When the SHTF, seconds count. Unless Law Enforcement stumbles across a violent crime, they don't get the call until it's already taken place.

I can't say for sure if the other guys in my department agree with my stance or not. I could probably name a couple that would be leery of more CCW's.

 

[Justice5]

I believe the response to this question coming from the LEO's on this site, will be that most are pro 2nd ammendment and support law abiding citizens and their choice to carry a weapon. At least that is what I would gather from previous comments. The officers on this site seem to be here for a reason, to learn and be part of a group that believes in gun rights and supports them. Personally, I wish more people carried a weapon in my jurisdiction. I also wished more officers around here carried a weapon off duty. I have never had an issue with someone carrying a concealed weapon legally, perhaps because I have never caught a "law abiding" citizen committing a crime while carrying a gun. Yes, I know it happens, but it hasn't yet to me. I would have to guess that more than half of my department supports citizen ccw. As stated previosly, the police are rarely at the scene of the crime when it takes place, and the police cannot protect the citizens if they are not there. Protecting yourself is a right that nobody should be denied. I feel that the more law abiding citizens that are armed, the safer we all are, and we send a message to the criminals that we will no longer be willing victims.

 

[Flatbedder]

"Denying someone the right to carry a firearm to protect himself is tantamount to denying him the right to life, the right to liberty and the right to property."

Isn't this the finding of "Heller vs. D.C"?

Self protection is a God given right! Its just too bad that there are so many cops with such bad attitudes!

 

[Avenger29]

Wow, Home Depot George is amazingly uninformed about the real world....I wish in my world the Cops would follow me around, just to make sure nothing bad happened to me

Dude, HDG was just referring to a thread on another forum. Not holding the opinions himself. It would have been better had he used quote tags.

 

[Harve Curry]

I have no problem at all with LEO's being armed so long as they are abiding lawful citizens.

 

[isthatajoke?]

Police attitude toward self defense

It seems that a lot of cops in bigger cities don't believe in allowing citizens their Second Amendment Right of defending themselves with a handgun, and many bigger cities (NY and Chicago come to mind) have a hostile attitude toward CCW. Living in the Kansas City Metro Area, I am proud to know that the police and media are generally supportive of armed self defense. Check out this video from 2008:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpd1KVjcaaA&feature=channel

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

Unfortunately, two things happen to people when they take the job of a police officer. They get an "us vs. them" attitude towards the public, because they routinely have to "police" the public, handling dirty domestics, nasty criminals, and irate citizens. Now add that most of these "uglies" are POTENTIALLY armed, and the cops have to worry about that. They soon lose sight of the fact that they were once civilians, and "cop" an attitude towards armed civilians, in general. Some cops develope the "I am your protector" mentality, too, and feel because they are armed, and ready to defend us, that we don't NEED to be armed. Kind of simple and short sighted, but, hey, we didn't necessarily hire them because they were smart (smart people make better money, know better than to be a cop, or become president). Now we have gone one further to make the cop feel like a higher class of citizen by giving him lifetime armed status (unless he screws up or doesn't choose to keep qualified after retirement). What we should have done was make them all "citizens" again after retirement, and have them apply for CCW permits like the regular folk. I absolutely KNOW all of this to be true, because I did the police thing for 20 years. I am proud to be just a citizen now, like the people I used to work for. (Remember who you work for, Mr. Policeman.......).

 

[travellingJeff]

Licensed firearms carriers are a less criminal group per capita than policemen. Gun owners tend to be of the mentality that keeps them away from serious legal trouble. Most gun owners are aware of the growing threat of violent crime on "the streets". You've got a class of intelligent people, aware of their Constitutional/natural rights, obeying the law, and expecting to be left alone.

Then, along comes a policeman, or a few cars worth. Flashing lights, sprawled out on pavement, gun "removed for safety" and waved about, questions asked, serial numbers "run", handcuff's put on, Miranda warnings; the cops putting on their best "Cop" show.

And finally, after all that, they give your gun back, grumble at you some, maybe arrest you for a "disorderly conduct" charge that'll only cost ya five grand to defeat, and make a note in their folder that you're not a passive citizen.



That's my take as to why so many gun owners aren't that keen on law enforcement. Their are so many laws now that no one is innocent, mearly as-yet uncaught. In the days that my father or grandfather grew up, no officer would think of starting an investigation or initiating contact with a person simply because they had a firearm on them. And, in those days, peace officers were respected and well liked. Now, law abiding, honest men get harassed by officers and the don't like it.

Ask the British how this one turns out...

 

[Pizzagunner]

Whatever their attitude towards CCW is, never let a peace officer ever call you a "civilian." They are not military, they are not paramilitary, they are your public servants. You do not live in a combat zone.

That is not saying be hostile towards them, nor even confrontational. "Might I remind you sir that you too are a civilian?"

It is minor, but it is dangerous to allow someone wielding the powers of arrest to think themselves as something apart from larger society without challenging it.

 

[travellingJeff]

I agree completely. Soon, the mixing of the military and the police will be complete.

 

[shooter429]

Wow, police response within seconds?

Around here calling 911 is a crap shoot at best. By that I mean it is very common to be put on hold for 3, 5 minutes or more before anyone even answers. Then they spend another 3-5 minutes asking questions like your name, address, phone number, etc. It is not uncommon to have 15-20 minute response times during non-peak hours. I have been told several times that all units were busy and they would get to me when they could (and I was calling about gunfire outside my residence). Three hours later I get a phone call. Once I was robbed. Police did not respond for the duration of my shift. They contacted the manager of the store that morning after I had already left.

Even if all are doing their best, it seems there are often more calls than either the dispatchers, officers or rescuers can handle.

And remember they do not have a legal obligation to protect anybody.

This kind of attitude by LEOs is very disturbing. It is not the law-abiding gun owners that are a threat to them or the community. Oh well, I guess I am preaching to the choir.

Shooter429

 

[WC145]

Question for LEO's on this forum. How do you feel about the 'armed citizen'? Those of us who are not in law enforcement, military, or any other professional organization, but who practice, train, & legally carry either openly or concealed?

So, out of three pages, this question has been answered by only a handful of LEOs (the group being queried), and each of those responses has been positive toward the 'armed citizen'. In spite of that, the majority of the other responses have been negative toward LEOs. Do any of you think maybe the cops aren't the ones with the attitude problems?

 

[rbernie]

Well, let's be fair - do you think that you'll find LEOs hanging out on THR that do NOT believe in the individual RKBA?

The premise of the thread was flawed because of the forum used to post it.