Less recoil than .308 but more power than 30-30

[HOOfan_1]

does the 7.62x39 have better ballistics than the 30-30? I've shot pretty hot loads in my marlin lever that have a lot more kick than the lighter AK.

Within 100 yards, the .30-30 is usually going to hit harder. .30-30 usually uses 150 grain or 170 grain bullets whereas the 7.62x39 is usually using 120-125 grain bullets.

I'd say on average the .30-30 is launching the 150 grain bullet around the same speed the 7.62x39 is launching a 125 grain bullet.

If you are using round nose bullets in a .30-30 the ballistic coefficient advantage of the 7.62x39 will have it hitting harder past 120 yards or so.

 

[zb338]

Don't even worry about the caliber. Have a gunsmith install a good
muzzle brake. My Son shoots a .340 Weatherby Magnum with a
muzzle brake attached and it feels like a .243. Without the brake
the .340 kicks like a mule.

Zeke

 

[natman]

I keep hearing recommendations for a muzzle brake and they do reduce recoil. It should be required to mention along with it they greatly increase the noise. Hearing protection would be required for the shooter and everyone nearby. They are LOUD, to the point that it's a real drag being at the range next to one.

 

[rodregier]

You can purchase or reload reduced .308 Win loadings.

125g @ 2700 ft/sec is one of the common offerings.
I reload similar for my BLR in that chambering.

http://www.hornady.com/store/308-Win-125-gr-SST-Custom-Lite/

 

[usfan]

Within 100 yards, the .30-30 is usually going to hit harder. .30-30 usually uses 150 grain or 170 grain bullets whereas the 7.62x39 is usually using 120-125 grain bullets.

I'd say on average the .30-30 is launching the 150 grain bullet around the same speed the 7.62x39 is launching a 125 grain bullet.

If you are using round nose bullets in a .30-30 the ballistic coefficient advantage of the 7.62x39 will have it hitting harder past 120 yards or so.

Exactly. that's why it does not really fit within the parameters of the OP. He was looking for something BETWEEN the 30-30 & 308, not something less than the 30-30.

Here's my best advice:
1. Get a new gun, if you want one, & can afford it. Get any caliber you like. If you don't have an AR or AK, you should.
2. Get lower charged 308 rounds, or hotter 30-30.
3. Put on a better pad and/or a muzzle brake.

..that's about it. There is no 'magic' caliber out there that will deliver 308 ballistics with 223 recoil. There are a lot of very versatile calibers, that can take mild or hot loads & deliver a wide range of ballistics. the 30-30, 308, 30-06, & many others that have been suggested fit that bill. It's all for fun, mostly, & hearing about other people's opinions & experiences, which are worth every penny of what they cost you.

 

[jerkface11]

.22-250 light recoil, accurate rifles are easy to find, and it's great for target and varmint hunting.

 

[morcey2]

Another option that doesn't require changing any of the firearms is a PAST recoil pad. I use a Field pad almost all the time and I can shoot all day long with any rifle or shotgun I own. I don't have any magnums, but I have a ton of milsurps with the finest in steel buttplates and a 12 Ga O/U that someone shaved the recoil pad down until it is just a round piece of hard plastic that concentrates the recoil along a very thin vertical strip.

I couldn't shoot more than about 10 shells out of the shotgun before my shoulder was in too much pain to continue. I am going to get a proper recoil pad installed on it, but I just haven't yet. My brother uses a Mag Plus with his Lazzeroni without a brake. It doesn't help with muzzle flip, etc. but his shoulder (and ears) sure feel better. With my son's Ruger American in 308, it feels like shooting a 223.

Matt

 

[CraigC]

The gap between the .30-30 and .308 is very narrow and really only amounts to a difference in effective range. It sounds like what you really need is a milder cartridge.

Sounds like a solution the 6.8 fits

Its about 30% more power than the 30-30

I'm having trouble with this. A smaller, lighter bullet does not equal 30% more power. It might produce more energy but energy never killed anything.

 

[dvdcrr]

The obvious answer for me would be 6mm Remington
http://www.remington.com/products/archived/centerfire/bolt-action/model-660.aspx

 

[MistWolf]

The comb height of the Ruger combined with the height of the open sights means you have to settle your cheek very low on the stock and your face is taking a beating with each shot. If you install an RDS or some type of optic that will set you raise your cheek up off the stock a bit, the rifle will be more comfortable to shoot.

Replace the factory pad with a Limbsaver or Decelerator and make sure the LOP isn't too long.

Another choice is to get a self loading 308. A 308 AR is the most practical choice but the FN-FAL has a well deserved reputation for being a soft shooter

 

[yotesmoker]

Try this

Send that 30-30 to JES fo a 38-55 rebore.ccurate,hard hitting and a hoot to shoot.

 

[C-grunt]

243 sounds like a good option. CZ makes rifles with iron sights still.

 

[fireman 9731]

The big advantage I see of the 7.62x39 over the 30-30 is the bullet type. 30-30 you are stuck with round nose bullets, if you switch over to x39 you open up the options to a variety of different modern bullet styles. Inside of a hundred yards it wont make much difference though. Also, price wise, its about the best bang for your buck that you can get!

 

[jrdolall]

Inside 100 yards I don't see anything better than a 30-30. Low recoil and plenty of pop for deer sized game at that distance. That doesn't mean it is "the best" but it is ore than capable of meeting your requirements.
I have a .243 that kicks like a 30-06. A Rossi SS. I have a Remington 700 243 that is an awesome gun. 25-06 would also do the job.
I have a Swedish Mauser sporterized that would be perfect for you. Very low recoil and a great medium-size game cartridge. It is used for big game as well but I only use it for deer.

As others have said, go buy yourself another gun but you are not going to find a "better" gun than the two you already own.

 

[rglong81]

Wow! I appreciate all the feedback over such a short period of time. I really wasn't expecting quite so many well thought out responses.

My Gunsite is the 18" stainless barrel with laminate stock. It really isn't bad at all but I will check into a better recoil pad for it. It's not something I would ideally want to hump around in the woods all day and someone mentioned the cheeck weld which is another small issue. The comb is very low and while still managable to see the open sights it is an awkward hold that I am not used to. One of the local shops has a Marlin 1895 SBL and the cheeck weld is the sane issue on that. I am a sucker for those peep sights though. The throw on the loop seems farther than the 336 as well.

Do I need a new gun? No. But that isn't going to stop me from buying more. The last gun I purchased was a Troy PAR. Didn't need it but it was different and because of the pump action it is very involved and fun to shoot like my lever action is. Ammo is affordable and it is a light handy rifle. Sucker is loud though thanks to the mussle break. I will likely end up removing that.

I have never come across a FAL but I have handled some M1As and a FNAR which are nice. They are heavier than the gunsite even though I suspected the weight and gas tubes to reduce the recoil.

I have had AKs and for whatever reason I just don't dig them though I love the caliber. I have ARs and a mini-14 and they certainly don't lack power but I prefer something a bit more and I wouldn't take them hunting deer.

I know firearms are like tools and used for different applications. None are magic and can do everything. My 336 comes pretty close though for what I need it for just like my sonicrafter.

My uncle has an old 30-40 krag. The magazine is kind of weird. Never seen anything else like it. It's really fun to shoot too.

I am thankful that the difference between 30-30 and .308 is narrow and even still, a lot of calibers have been mentioned that I haven't heard of or have heard very little about. Sometimes looking for a new gun is difficult with not knowing everything that is out there and it's like not knowing what question to even ask. Now I have a few things to plug into google and do some research on. Thanks.

I love hicock45. I watch his videos all the time. Great stuff!

 

[TimSr]

Stick with .308 and get something gas operated semi auto.

 

[Sunray]

For anything not larger than deer size game any .24, 25, .26 or .27 calibre.
Mini-30's are over priced and aren't accurate enough. 7.62 x 39's .311" bullet choice is very decidedly limited. 123 to 125 grains and not much else.
"...A little more umph than 30-30..." It's less 'umph'. Typical .30-30 ammo uses a 170 grain bullet at roughly 2200fps and 1354 ft/lbs. of energy at 100 yards. A 123 grain 7.62 x 39 starts at 2350 fps, but only has 1153 ft/lbs. at 100.
Any 6.25 or 7 pound bolt action like your Ruger is going to pound you. What ammo you using? Think physics. Lighter bullet means less felt recoil. A .308 will work just as well for deer/varmints with a 140ish grain bullets as it will with a 165 plus.

 

[fireman 9731]

There is a wide selection of bullets out there for x39. Maybe not the weight range of some calibers but I know at a minimum there are 122 grains bullets all the way up to 154 grain soft points. The options are a lot bigger if you handload and cast your your own bullets too. The introduction of the Hornady SST bullets, along with the Federal Fusion line now provides premium ballistic tipped options as well.

I'm not bashing the 30-30 at all, and they are both quite similar. I just want people to know that x39 has a lot more options than it used to, and CZ makes a fantastic little carbine that handles like a dream and shoots even better.

 

[eldon519]

It might produce more energy but energy never killed anything.

I get what you're trying to say, but energy absolutely kills, whether it be kinetic, gravitational, chemical, heat, nuclear, etc. In the physics concept, tissue destruction is "work", and work is measured in energy. More energy will always represent more capacity to do more damage, regardless of whether it is efficiently utilized or not or actually does said damage or not. It's an artificial dichotomy to try to separate what the "energy" vs what the "momentum" are doing. You can't have one without the other, and their relationship is rigidly and mathematically defined.

 

[CraigC]

I get what you're trying to say, but energy absolutely kills, whether it be kinetic, gravitational, chemical, heat, nuclear, etc. In the physics concept, tissue destruction is "work", and work is measured in energy. More energy will always represent more capacity to do more damage, regardless of whether it is efficiently utilized or not or actually does said damage or not. It's an artificial dichotomy to try to separate what the "energy" vs what the "momentum" are doing. You can't have one without the other, and their relationship is rigidly and mathematically defined.

You miss the point. The fact that the 6.8 'may' produce more energy is simplistic and VERY misleading. It uses a smaller bullet. All else equal, smaller bullets make smaller holes. It uses a lighter bullet. All else equal, a lighter bullet makes a shallower hole. Velocity, which is the biggest factor in determining that worthless number advertised as kinetic energy, which is also the most rapidly diminishing factor, does not make up for a lack of mass or diameter. In the real world, "30% more energy" doesn't tell us anything useful.

More energy will always represent more capacity to do more damage, regardless of whether it is efficiently utilized or not or actually does said damage or not.

Nice try. If only it were that simple. Two loads very divergent in their production of energy can produce the same amount of tissue damage along their path. Except that one with very high velocity produces a very broad wound channel only a few inches deep. The other, producing a dismal amount of energy, creates a narrow wound channel several feet deep. Which would you rather use for elk?

I'm sorry but energy is a worthless number and we'd all gain a better understanding of terminal ballistics if it never entered the discussion or logic stream.

 

[usfan]

Wow! I appreciate all the feedback over such a short period of time. I really wasn't expecting quite so many well thought out responses.

My Gunsite is the 18" stainless barrel with laminate stock. It really isn't bad at all but I will check into a better recoil pad for it. It's not something I would ideally want to hump around in the woods all day and someone mentioned the cheeck weld which is another small issue. The comb is very low and while still managable to see the open sights it is an awkward hold that I am not used to. One of the local shops has a Marlin 1895 SBL and the cheeck weld is the sane issue on that. I am a sucker for those peep sights though. The throw on the loop seems farther than the 336 as well.

Do I need a new gun? No. But that isn't going to stop me from buying more. The last gun I purchased was a Troy PAR. Didn't need it but it was different and because of the pump action it is very involved and fun to shoot like my lever action is. Ammo is affordable and it is a light handy rifle. Sucker is loud though thanks to the mussle break. I will likely end up removing that.

I have never come across a FAL but I have handled some M1As and a FNAR which are nice. They are heavier than the gunsite even though I suspected the weight and gas tubes to reduce the recoil.

I have had AKs and for whatever reason I just don't dig them though I love the caliber. I have ARs and a mini-14 and they certainly don't lack power but I prefer something a bit more and I wouldn't take them hunting deer.

I know firearms are like tools and used for different applications. None are magic and can do everything. My 336 comes pretty close though for what I need it for just like my sonicrafter.

My uncle has an old 30-40 krag. The magazine is kind of weird. Never seen anything else like it. It's really fun to shoot too.

I am thankful that the difference between 30-30 and .308 is narrow and even still, a lot of calibers have been mentioned that I haven't heard of or have heard very little about. Sometimes looking for a new gun is difficult with not knowing everything that is out there and it's like not knowing what question to even ask. Now I have a few things to plug into google and do some research on. Thanks.

I love hicock45. I watch his videos all the time. Great stuff!

I would LOVE a gunsite scout in 308.. that might be one of the best 'do all' rifles out there. I have a vepr, & a tikka in 308, & it fills just about everything. But imo, that gunsite would replace both.

..nothing wrong with more calibers! the more the merrier. But that gunsite with stainless 18" is a pretty sweet, all around rifle. You can low power load it, or crank it up. Very versatile, & with (hi cap!) mags. Put on a muzzle brake, or a softer pad & it is about as good as you can get.

edit: actually, a springfield m1a socom would probably be my best 'do all' high powered rifle.. .but i don't have that, either.

 

[fireman 9731]

Maybe we can agree that its the transfer of energy that does the work. Energy must be transferred effectively to the object. Maybe that could be classified as "knockdown".

For example, a bullet that totally disintegrates upon impact imparts all of its energy, while one that passes through the object was not as efficient at transferring its energy because it had too much leftover. A happy medium of both situations is ideal.

 

[eldon519]

I'm sorry Craig, you assertion that energy never killed anything is simply wrong. This isn't a situation where your opinion is as good as someone else's fact.

I understood your point, and I said that. But stating energy never killed anything is so wrong as to be perverse.

 

[CraigC]

But stating energy never killed anything is so wrong as to be perverse.

Sigh. I understand what energy is and how it is produced. The point being that it is a useless number when applied to terminal ballistics.

To flip it, what does "30% more energy" mean to YOU? Is it 30% more effective? Does it penetrate 30% deeper? Produce a wound channel 30% broader? Good for critters 30% larger? Does it kill anything 30% deader? Because if it doesn't tell you any of those things with absolute certainty, what good is it?

 

[MistWolf]

30% more energy is 30% more energy. It's a quantifiable number. Whether or not that energy can be put to use is another subject entirely