Less than impressed with the lightweights

[SharpsDressedMan]

At table distances, they all shoot close enough to be called " the same". The difference is, can you stomach the extra discomfort of shooting a lighter gun (steel<airwight<scandium, etc). The lighter you go, the more it's going to sting. I personally don't care if it is going to sting me a bit....I still am able to walk away from the range, even if my hand gets bruised a bit, or in some cases, bleeds a little. Come on guys, toughen up. You don't have to shoot them a lot, but when it come to carrying the lightest of guns, then you really appreciate them, and tend to have them on you more often. Believe me, the scandiums and alloy guns will hurt you a lot less than they will impact your targets. If you must be comfortable in the hand everytime you go shooting, get a bigger or heavier gun. Special guns for special purposes, and the differences between the lightweights and the regular guns is no different than choosing a shotgun or rifle for ITS intended purpose. Remember, carry guns are just that, carry guns. You carry them. Some will want a lighter gun to CARRY.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

There is a law of physics that says a wise man will not attempt to shoot a gun that is lighter than the bullet.

Light snubbies normally produce one of two effects: Either the owner will not practice with the gun (because it hurts,) or he will develop bad habits from practicing with it (jerking and flinching.)

If you find someone who carries a snubbie and shoots enough with it to be proficient, you will normally find he shoots only .38 Specials (even if the gun is a .357.) And the odds are good he will gravitate to a heavier gun.

My snubbie is a Colt Detective Special, just about the right balance between carry weight and recoil damping weight, and I only shoot standard pressure .38 Specials in it. If I wanted more power, the minimum I would carry would be the Ruger SP 101, with the 3 1/16" barrel.

 

[Deanimator]

The smallest handgun I own is a 2" Smith 36. I got it via a lawyer friend from one of his clients who was headed to the slammer.

It's accurate and controllable with the Federal 158gr. LSWC-HP "FBI" load.

I wouldn't carry anything smaller or lighter.

 

[WC145]

Is anybody else in agreement with me when I say that these lightweight revolvers that seem to be all the rage right now are pretty well overrated?

I hardly think that they're suddenly all the rage and certainly not overrated. The S&W Airweight line has been around for decades, they're sturdy, lightweight, reliable, and easy to carry. What more could you ask for in a carry gun? The new scandium alloy guns are just a more modern take on the old aluminum frame Airweights. If you don't mind the recoil there's nothing easier to pack than a 10-13oz j-frame.

I carry a customized scandium framed 9mm j-frame as a BUG and off-duty gun. It is powerful, controllable, accurate, reliable, and light, the perfect concealed carry piece. I could replicate it in steel, but why would I want the same gun only twice as heavy? Doesn't make sense, there's no benefit.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I hardly think that they're suddenly all the rage and certainly not overrated.

i think he might be referring to the change in popularity of the J-frame as opposed to the K-frame.

the K-frame used to be the standard "carrygun" and was an excellent choice as to controlability and trigger control. the J-frame was considered more of an "expert's gun", due to it's harder to control trigger and it's increased muzzle jump, due to it's smaller grip frame.

it's much harder to learn proper DA trigger control on the J-frame than the K-frame. it's a combination of the coil spring, shorter hammer arc and shorter trigger reach...that's why i always prefered the Colt D-frame...and going SA only makes a bad situation worst

the growing appeal of the J-frame seems to have more to do with it's size and weight...and it's cuteness

 

[gmh1013]

I tell you what

If I was shootin for sh*t with an all alloy Smith I would not even catch a wiff.
For me 20/21 oz for a snub is light enough if you really want to hit what
you are shooting at. These light .38 (with the LCR being the exception)
are to hard to shoot.

 

[megatronrules]

I have to say I like the lightweight snubbie concept. I have a S&W 340 M&P and after adding a set of pachmayr compac grips I have no problem shooting full power 158gr .357's. The grips don't hinder concealment and offer a lot more control over the gun. I think it depends on the way the gun is to be carried as well,but that being said a light weight snub nose with the right grips shoots beautifully for me. Grips can change EVERYTHING about how a gun handles and shoots.

 

[Hawk]

The lightweight stuff seems nice in a limited context.

I have developed rather of a liking for a 325TR in extended range sessions. Generic .45ACP doesn't have much in the way of recoil anyway and it seems the 32 ounce scandium frame / stainless cylinder is "Goldilocks just right".

A 625 will wear me out from the sheer weight of the thing before the .45ACP will wear me out from recoil.

A 325 with titanium cylinder would be too light, but the 325TR is "just right".

But I'm in agreement on flyweight snubbies - they're a bear to learn to shoot right and I'm unlikely to do so 'cause they hurt to practice with. Probably the pixie grip as much as the weight but they look goofy with decent stocks grafted on.

 

[ArmedBear]

The belief that one can't possibly shoot a lightweight J-frame if he shoots other guns for fun, competition, or whatever, is just plain silly.

I've usually got my eye out for a good deal on a firearm, and as a result I now own a few similar Smith revolvers: 10, a 686 and a 629 MG (all 4" barrels). They're all different in weight and balance, recoil, etc. I can put them all on a range bench, and shoot them all at random, no problem.

But for some reason, when I pick up the 642 that I actually carry regularly, I can't shoot it? BS. In fact, I can shoot it just fine. It's not as pleasant to plink with (well, probably not that much different from the 629 with the hot handloads I shoot in it), but my shooting practice with other Smiths doesn't suddenly vaporize when I pick up the Airweight.

Someone who thinks that one can't shoot more than one gun should attend a NRA Bullseye match. Competitors shoot two or three guns in sequence, slow, timed and rapid; one must be a .22 rimfire and one must be a .45 ACP. The third can be any centerfire. Good shooters can put them all in the 10 ring with a .22, then pick up a .45 and do the same.

If someone is not a shooter, and never practices, sure, the Airweight might be a bit awkward (Airlite .357 much more so). But a regular revolver shooter who is comfortable with a variety of different guns, calibers and loads? Not a problem.

 

[psyopspec]

Different tools for different applications. I don't shoot my 340SC for fun; I shoot it because it's a defensive tool that's easy to carry with me in more circumstances than a lot of other pistols. Of course, it would be silly if I limited myself to one type of firearm; there's a lot of great guns out there, each with it's own advantages, disadvantages, and particular applications at which it can excel.

 

[WC145]

Good post ArmedBear. My 9mm is a heck of a shooter. When I qualified last month I shot better with it than either my duty weapon (Beretta 8000D) or my other off duty piece ( Kahr CW9), In fact my only perfect score was with the snubby.

 

[easyg]

Do folks that own those unobtanium J-frames, really practice with them??? Feels like, to me, what I imagine it must be like holding a hand grenade when it goes off!! I must just be gettin old. TJ

I aint calling you old, but shooting .38 Special or .38 Special+P in an aluminum frame S&W Airweight is really not that bad.
Even my dainty little wife can shoot it for at least five cylinders before she has had enough.

If I was shootin for sh*t with an all alloy Smith I would not even catch a wiff.
For me 20/21 oz for a snub is light enough if you really want to hit what
you are shooting at. These light .38 (with the LCR being the exception)
are to hard to shoot.

It just takes a little hand strength and some practice, that's all.
Besides, the S&W Airweight 637 weighs 17 oz loaded....that's only 3 or 4 oz less than the all steel snub-nose version.

 

[M&PVolk]

I will never understand all the moaning about recoil on the .38 j-frames. It isn't THAT bad. I can shoot it all day without any issue. It certainly doesn't recoil anywhere near the amount my .44 mag does. It has been proven that j-frames can be accurate out to 100 yards.

I kind of like shooting the light guns...a gun should feel powerful, and they definitely do.

 

[jad0110]

I aint calling you old, but shooting .38 Special or .38 Special+P in an aluminum frame S&W Airweight is really not that bad.

Same thoughts here. 38+P in a 642 is stiff, IMO, but not unbearable for 50 rounds. Over 100 my hand does start to hurt a bit and I start flinching. I usually limit my shooting to just 25 rounds at a time and I'm golden.

As I said, 642 recoil is not bad to me, but my 2" Model 15 is soooo much sweeter to shoot. In fact, I have been shooting my K Frames more freqently than my J Frame 642 lately (especially my K-22) and have seen no degradation in my shooting abilities with the 642. In fact, I think I've improved some despite not getting to the range as much as I did last year.

Steel for IWB, aluminum for pocket. That's the way I like it. YMMV.

Now, I know first hand that recoil is high subjective from person to person. I don't mind 642 recoil so much, but my wife and father freakin' hate it .

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

"Now, I know first hand that recoil is high subjective from person to person. I don't mind 642 recoil so much, but my wife and father freakin' hate it .".............................................................Jad0110 sums it up. A person who shoots a lot will develope a resistance to the effects of blast and recoil, and will subsequently be able to handle heavier loads, or lighter guns. I have progressed to challenging myself with the S&W 500 with the 2 3/4" barrel. I use reduced, "warm" loads, and that is all I need for what I want, but it still blows my other guns away. I can shoot it accurately, and have even experimented with wood "boot" grips for a "K" frame on the 500 (they take the same RB grips). After five shots with the wood grips, the web of my shooting hand got torn a tad, and I was bleeding a little. I think just taping the web of my hand with a swatch of duct tape would have prevented the tear to the skin, but it was still great fun for five shots. The Hogue grips that come on the 500 are definitely better in taming the discomfort of the 500, and I'm sure that they would work on any lesser caliber to make that particular gun easier to manage. I tend to mentally block out recoil and blast as much as I humanly can. Maybe I'm just getting used to it.
__________________

 

[BigGuy52]

I have a model 637 Airweight that I shoot every time I go to the range. I tend to put 150 rounds through it each time. Of those rounds, I also shoot 1 box of + P's to stay sharp at it.
No carry laws here in the Land of Abe, but this little gun is my primary HD gun, backed up by a pump shotgun.
I like that it's very small and yet it packs a good punch. I practice at a distance of 25', I figure that's the farthest shot I'll ever do, in my house. The recoil isn't that bad, but I have found the neccesity to shoot with gloves.

 

[Frizzman]

I have a Detective Special and an Agent. They are the same gun except fpr weight. The DS has seen more range time than the Agent. But, I carry the Agent more. It's not that bad to shoot with standard pressure .38's. I also have a S&W 640, a couple of M36's and a 432. I like the 432. It is very light and the concealed hammer is ideal for deep concealment and pocket carry. The ,32 mag has ballistics similar to the standard .38 with milder recoil and the 432 has 6 shots instead of 5. The 432 is not unpleasant to shoot. The only drawback it limited availability of the ammo.

Besides the small snubs, I also have a 325PD snub, a M66-1 snub and a 686-3 snub. I will be getting a LNIB M15 snub soon also. I like them all but the 686 is not very appealing since it is so heavy. The 66 is a good revolver and was THE pistol whe I was in my prime. The 325PD is light and, for me, is not that bad to shoot with the right grips but it is bulky and tougher to conceal. So, the smaller frame snubs are carried most of the time when I carry a revolver.

 

[Noxx]

Like a lot of folks I draw the line on the real lightweights at .38+p.

I can practice with it and shoot it comfortably enough, and competently enough, in my 642. Any round with more punch and I'd as soon have a steel gun like the 60, which isn't exactly a puppy to shoot with full house .357 either.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I like carrying a Airweight because I forget it's in my pocket. I don't like to shoot it a lot at the range, that's why I own both a M640 and M642. I practice with the M640 and then finish off with 10 rounds in the M642. That works for me...

 

[KBintheSLC]

I like steel revolvers... unless they are in my pocket. In that case, I'll take my 637. These light weights are not made for taking to the range and dumping thousands of rounds through. They are designed for ease of carry, which they do well.
I don't care for +P in my 637... I just use warm, standard pressure loads like Buffalo Bore or S&B. The extra 25-50 fps is not worth the abuse IMO.

 

[ArmedBear]

popularity of the J-frame as opposed to the K-frame

It's not like there are many K-frame models in production at the moment... Any snubbies at all? I don't think so.

So if Joe CCW goes to buy a revolver, is he going to see any K Frames in the store?

Uh, no.

 

[sidheshooter]

But if joe CCW is willing to pay his dues and shop around for a good, used, pre-lock S&W, he can get a model 10, 64 or even 12 in 2" guise. They're GREAT guns. Why settle for new?

As mentioned, I recently picked up a 2-inch 12 in fantastic condition; it can be done. Got my Buffalo Bore standard pressure and just got a t-grip yesterday, to boot. I'm set.

Make mine an airweight!

(although, I prefer the K-frame. As well, I have enough k and j-sized steel frames laying around that I can do one of those too, if need be...)

 

[9mmepiphany]

is he going to see any K Frames in the store

i blame that on the public's demand to shoot MAGNUM ammo, which lead to manufacturers replacing their K-frame offerings with the L-frame (and Ruger GP) sized guns

the S&W K-frame, Colt D-frame and Ruger Security series were almost perfect carry guns...IMO

 

[gmh1013]

I wasted five .357's 125 grain .357's
last week with my Ruger SP which
is no light weight.....5 rounds is as much as my hand could take.....
I have arthritis also which dont help

 

[Dogbite]

I have a Smith 638 Airweight I have carried for years. I love this revolver. I am a seasoned shooter, but for me it really isn't a big deal. I shoot it great and it carries like a dream. One good thing about heavier revolvers though is that in the case of extreme close combat, it can be used as a contact weapon, which is no joke.