Let me hunt for free, you jerk

[Nathanael_Greene]

Much of Texas had a pretty rainy summer this year, which means that we'll probably be facing an explosion in feral hog numbers. (This is really not a good thing, in my opinion. Feral hogs are dirty, destructive pests.)

I've been reading on some other hunting forums of guys who are from out-of-state who seem to believe that the hog problem entitles them to show up and hunt in Texas for free.

The logic seems to be "Hogs are a problem; I'll kill hogs for free; problem solved."

Then, when they learn of the long tradition of paying to hunt just about anything anywhere in Texas, they're put out, some to the point of rudeness.

To be honest, this amazes me. Oh, not so much the desire for free hunting; I have that myself. But it's the sense of entitlement that some of these people have.

Sure, it would be nice to be able to hunt large quantities of tasty game animals for free (and many ranchers/farmers do allow it, though I don't know any of them personally, alas).

Is it reasonable to expect ranchers to allow strangers to hunt their land?

 

[2RCO]

Nathanael,
Many areas of the US do allow free hunting or at least hunting with permission and have never considered charging. It seems Texas however has adopted the European style where the Landowners own the game--or at least they believe they do. In my opinion it's your land abide by whatever rules you wish. As far payment to hunt on land, it's my belief if I have to pay to hunt on your land you better be providing me with some good hunting. Then again it's your land so you can do what you want with it. The animals unless stocked however aren't your property.

On another note I have never seen Feral hogs as a tasty game animal more a very foul scented creature I would pass on hunting because I wouldn't want to dress. I do have at least one friend in Texas that has a several thousand acre spread that will gladly let friends kill all the hogs they can just to get rid of them .

 

[elkhuntingfool]

Agreed - they are vermin. Would you expect to pay to hunt jack rabbits?

 

[countertop]

Virginia (or at least the Peoples Republic aof Northern Virginia) seems to have adopted that model too.

 

[lanternlad1]

Texans are very serious when it comes to allowing strangers on their land. The game has nothing to do with it, really. I'm sure the money paid allows the hunters to be on the property and not get shot for trespassing, which is legal to do here. Also, there is no respect given when no value is assigned. That is human nature. Make 'em pay, and they'll appreciate it. If the farmers want strangers to do the hunting, they make them pay. Trust me, the farmers have PLENTY of friends whom he knows well that he will let hunt for free on his land. If strangers must pay, that is the price of hunting nowadays. If I had land and a stranger wanted to hunt on it, I'd make them pay for it. Otherwise stay off my land, and hunt on your own for free. That just how Texas is.

 

[eastwood44mag]

I don't think it's unreasonable to charge to hunt your land, but I do think it's a bit obscene to charge a week's pay for a day of hunting.

 

[jeepmor]

It's up to the landowner. If he has so much demand that he can charge high prices, so be it. But don't expect me to do anything but hunt and tend to my own business if you charge me.

However, if you do not charge me, to show appreciation, I'll likely pick up errant trash and go out of my way in some other form to show thanks and sincerity for the privilege. When I'm paying dollars, you are getting my thanks right there, everything else is up to you, the landowner.

Don't get me wrong, I pack out what I pack in. But I won't be going out of my way to pick up anyone else's spent shells or anything else for that matter if I'm paying you for the hunting. My fee is to pay the landowner to maintain his own property. If he chooses not to do so, that is not my problem, I paid to hunt, not help.

On that note, I just concluded a successful deer hunt on private property from an extended family member who has a 1000 acre plot with a cabin. I left the cabin in better shape than I found it, stocked the wood box, split some more kindling, made the bed, vacuumed the floor and other little things like that to show my appreciation. It was a great pleasure to hunt on private land that was spotless in regards to trash. We didn't have to deal with any reckless yahoos, and it was quiet and isolated from the public lands a few miles away where I'd have to worry about the security of my rig and things like that. It was a great privilege and I treated it as such. And if others are gracious enough to bring me onto their land for hunting opportunities, it's the least I could do.

 

[Jack A. Sol]

chargeing for hunting as the NORM seems messed up to me. It also could entitle the hunter to a reeasonable expectation of success or a refund if unsuccessful. there is also some liability issue that could be raised by the acceptance and demand for payment.

charging for hunting is NOT a good idea.

 

[Big Boomer]

I miss the good old days

back when I was growing up in Oregon, farmers had bad problems with jacks and would even pay for your ammo or sometimes even a buck a head for jacks if you would come out and take care of them.

They could literally destroy thousands of dollars of crops for the farmers and would be considered a huge nuisance and were generally very costly to control. Farmers would solicit free hunting to have them taken care of.

If hogs were that much of a problem here in Texas and causing so much damage to crops you would think that they would welcome any help curring these vermin.

I have a friend that has 500 acres and charges a "cheap" $1500 per gun for all year hunting game animals on his land they are takers like you can't believe! That is about half price of what most charge for a hunt. It's insane. The problems that he runs into and had to take the lease away from the last family is that they just killed EVERYTHING and left them for dead. They would hunt dear and just cut the horns off, shoot the fox for the tails, kill the rabbits for sport including all the birds (even illegal ones). After a weekend he would fine corpses laying all over rotting. He warned them about only hunting game animals and not to just take the horns etc.

Perhaps I am too old but I just don't see the point in killing a deer to cut off it's antlers. I mean sheesh there is some darn good backstrap that's just left to rot! That's a sin in itself!

 

[Herknav]

I think the misunderstanding comes largely from a lack of understanding of the cost of hunting in Texas. I think Boomer hit it on the head when he said,

If hogs were that much of a problem here in Texas and causing so much damage to crops you would think that they would welcome any help curring these vermin.

I don't think it's a lack of manners, so much as a wide difference in expectations. The hunter thinks he's doing Tex a favor by eradictaing his nuisance pests. He's not charging for his services. In fact, he's even providing his own gas (driving from out-of-state), food, & lodging in return for a chance at some feral hogs. If he pays for hunting at home, it's usually in the form of a "token of appreciation" to the landowner.

The landowner, on the other hand, thinks he's doing the hunter a favor by providing good hunting opportunities for some out-of-staters. He's used to getting paid quite a bit to let somebody hunt on his land.

The problem comes when everybody sees how big the gulf is between the two. Each side thinks the other is ungrateful, and resentment sets in. I grew up on the farm, and have lived in seven states. I think the cultural "norms" are literally that far apart.

 

[alsaqr]

Paying to hunt is not peculiar to Texas. For at least 40 years lots of folks in the eastern part of WV have been leasing their places to hunters.

 

[rino451]

They could literally destroy thousands of dollars of crops for the farmers and would be considered a huge nuisance and were generally very costly to control. Farmers would solicit free hunting to have them taken care of.

If hogs were that much of a problem here in Texas and causing so much damage to crops you would think that they would welcome any help curring these vermin.

Not to start a flame fest, but I'm now sure that destroying crops is that bad of a thing some. From the several friends that I have with leases that complain about hogs, they sure like to complain about it but they have NEVER made good on any of their invitat5ions extended to me to come take care of their problem.

 

[koja48]

Obviously no one likes to pay trespass fees, even the public "land use" fees some states, such as WA levy. However, the landowner does own the land and when such a practice is followed on a grand scale, such as in Texas, I can see where frustrations abound. I personally prefer "register to hunt," if an owner wants to limit the number of hunters on his/her land & know who is hunting . . . lessens the chance of damage to equipment/livestock & puts extra eyes and ears in the field providing oversight. The assumption that the landowner owns the game is wrong. What vexes me more are the landowners who refuse access, then expect the state & public tax dollars to rectify problems incurred as the result of wildlife crop depredation, fence damage, etc. Where I'm located, there so many guides & exclusive well-heeled hunting clubs/members that the majority of the goose fields are reserved & the working hunter has no access other than public land, which is generally poor quality hunting, but at least it's an option. It's somewhat about profit, I reckon, unfortunate, but real, and somewhat about protecting what one owns/limiting access . . . and if you hunt public ground, you know there are a fair share of slob hunters out there. In some regards hunters have contributed to the land access problem.

 

[redneckrepairs]

In some regards hunters have contributed to the land access problem.

There it is in a nutshell folks. Lease or trespass fee hunting is not big in my area of Colorado . What is becoming increasingly common however is to close access to the " public " . This comes directly from the " overhead " of allowing access that you incur as a landowner . We have had livestock shot , equipment shot , irrigation wells apparently used to sight in rifles , irrigation pipe run over , fences run tho or cut, gates left open , crops driven over , parts and tools stolen , ect.. just to name the problems we have had in the last few years . IMHO it gets worse every year .
Tho we have never charged for hunting and likely never will, in the past pretty much anyone who asked was told to go ahead and hunt a piece of ground , it is reaching the point that several thousand acres of private habitat ( that supports turkey, phesant , duck/goose, deer, antelope , and about any varmint you would care to name will be pulled from public access and its no ones fault but slobs with guns and or vehicles/4wheelers.

Allow me to suggest that if you think fee hunting or locking off access is so wrong. Why dont you go buy or lease a few thousand acres and put up hunter welcome signs ? You too can then have the joys of being a Landowner and attending to the cost and matienence that others on your property seems to bring sure as night follows day .

 

[ID_shooting]

Hunting upland game, turkeys, pheasnt, ducks, geese and such is becomming harder and harder here. There are some really good public lands and so far we are doing a good job of not spouting off where "no tellem creek" is, but there are also some WMA lands that are stocked but are getting way too crowded. Private land owners are beginning to think Texas style but since they all seem to be recent transplants form out of states, they are mistaken about how much to ask for ($500.00 for a day of hunting) not today.

Now, for a story. We drive down by the river, see a good sized flock of turkeys ona back field, ask the owner to hunt and he wants $500.00 a head we bring off. We say no thanks and move on our way, back in the truck, we look at teh maps and notice a small canal that borders his land is marked as public owned. We park at the canal, has 15-20 feet wide banks, we drive down, set up decoys and call off the turkeys off the land owners land, shoot our three and attempt to leave. Mr land owner has blocked the road and is demanding money for shooting his turkeys. We just laugh and walk by. He threatens to call the cops, we offer him a cell phone

Now, I am sure he has a hatred for hunters but what were we to do? I think things will become much more problematic in the near future, at least in my area.

 

[redneck]

Now that a guy can get people to pay a couple hundred bucks to kill a hog or what not, the argument of crop damage and doing a service doesn't really hold anymore. When you start putting that kind of a price on the hogs, they're worth about as much as the crops they destroy. And unlike crops or livestock, they feed, and breed, and grow all by themselves.
The hogs are already there and the farmer/rancher has to suffer their damage as its not likely to erradicate them anytime soon. So in the long run its probably more profitable to charge for hunting and offset the damage they do cause than let people hunt for free and hope the hogs go away.


Its sad thats its going this way, but folks really need to appreciate that there is any hunting available at all. In my area its getting pretty thin. Instead of going to lease/hunting fees, you see no hunting signs going up. Urban sprawl is eating up hunting area fast. Metro parks are going in as a means of keeping green space, but don't allow hunting of any kind. And landowners are getting more and more reluctant to give permission.
Farmers in this region don't own ground anymore. Its cash rent whatever acreage they can get ahold of. Then you have the hassle of whether its the owner, or the farmer who gives permission to hunt. Hunters fighting over who was out first, and who's permission stands and who's doesn't, and expecting the farmer to stop cutting beans and play mediator. Folks wind up pissed off, and signs get posted.

 

[eliphalet]

We say no thanks and move on our way, back in the truck, we look at teh maps and notice a small canal that borders his land is marked as public owned. We park at the canal,

BLM maps are a must if you live in the Western US and hunt outside the Natl Forest. Cheap very accurate and easily available at BLM offices or online.


Texas land owners wouldn't get a dime of my money, I have hunted on public land all my life and I'd be d^%*ed if I pay to shoot a state owned animal. To each his own and y-all do what ya like, but it would take the fun out of hunting to me. I have yet to see the deer worth $1500 to me much less the goat sized deer I have see from some Southern Central areas of the country.

If I want or need game meat and want to pay, a cow elk can be bought for around $400, according to a fella i work with, it ain't hunting but it's game meat.

 

[22-rimfire]

Pay hunting (as in expensive leases) seems to be a tradition in Texas. In most cases, it's cheaper to just go to the grocery store and buy beef and skip hunting if food is your objective.

I have mixed feelings about paying to hunt on ranches in general. Hunting has become a major source of income for rancher owners. It also takes money to keep the places more convenient for hunting and building stands and so forth. Again, I have mixed feelings on the subject. Lets say I'm neutral at best on leases.

I lived in Texas for 12 years. My hunting stopped completely because I had the same attitude at that time. Time passes and you simply don't hunt anymore if you stick to your guns on the lease issue.

 

[Rembrandt]

Charging or not should be up to the land owner....not the hunter!. If you want free hunting find a public hunting area.

After investing half a million for property for myself and family to hunt, I'm in awe at how many jerks think they have a right to hunt it because the DNR's game is on it.

 

[MCgunner]

Many areas of the US do allow free hunting or at least hunting with permission and have never considered charging. It seems Texas however has adopted the European style where the Landowners own the game--or at least they believe they do.

Now, they don't own the game, but they control access to the land. If you just cross the fence, start hunting, and get caught, you will be charged with felony criminal trespass. The felony part was added a few years ago. I think the King and Kennedy ranches had a lot to do with that. They charge the big bucks for big bucks, nilgai, etc, and have a problem with trespassers. Used to be guys go in there and never be heard from again, but the state sorta frowns on killin' a trespasser now days unless he's tryin' to kill you.

So, you either pony up, get a APH permit and hunt east Texas for the "experience" and maybe actually kill something in your lifetime, maybe, or buy your own place. I have a very small place with a lot of deer and hog on it. It's only ten acres and I'm pretty well stuck with feeder watching it. But, it beats nothing. I was on a hunting club for a while. I had mixed feelings about that. When I got on it it was $760 a year. It was up around $1500 when I dropped out. The eastern leases they had were over-hunted, 1 hunter per hundred acres usually and the ranches got a LOT of hunting pressure. They had a deal, 12 slots, with Larry Gore Eagle Lake Katy Prairie Outfitters out of Katy, Texas that was good for goose, dove, or duck hunting. I used to goose hunt with them a lot. They normally charge 150 a day, so if you hunted with 'em much, didn't take long to justify the dues. Then, they had a 13,000 acre lease at Pumpville, 13 miles west of Langtrey, Texas on Hwy 90. That was fantastic hunting and you didn't have to feeder watch. It was so far out there, it didn't get a lot of pressure during the season. It'd fill up opening saturday and everyone would go home sunday after the morning hunt. If you stayed, there might be 4 people on the whole place mid week. You could spot and stalk out there. It was as if you had the whole of west Texas to hunt just on a section, LOL. I really enjoyed that place and they managed it for big bucks and it was with a heavy heart that I let that club go only because of that west Texas ranch, but it was a 7 hour drive for me. There was one local ranch at Blessing, Pierce ranch, 2500 acres and the ol' boy that owned the place was a descendant of ol' Shanghai Pierce himself. It was SO over-hunted that if you didn't score the first day, you didn't see anything rest of the season. They all hid in the woods and went nocturnal. I killed a couple of doe off that place, but never shot a buck. It was 8 points or better and biggest I ever saw was a 5 pointer with a narly rack that looked pathetic. One ol' boy shot a nice 9 pointer over there one year, but bucks were few and far between. It was year around and I used to just go over there woods bumming off season and shoot squirrels. It wasn't bad squirrel hunting and I think I was the only one in the club that hunted 'em. Never saw anyone down there off season.

In Texas you do what you have to do. Heck, for a few years before I got on that hunting club, I was driving to New Mexico and hunting mulies, came out a lot cheaper than leasing something and the hunting was fabulous. No feeder watching, all spot and stalk, and I enjoyed the scouting as much as the hunting. I have gone up to east Texas. The squirrel hunting is so good up there I usually just ditched the deer hunting idea and pulled the .22 pistol and went after squirrel, LOL!

There are a few areas I'd like to explore in east Texas and if I lived up there (have been tossing around maybe moving in a few years), I'd have a lot of fun just scouting and back packing the woods and hunting squirrel and mallard on the lakes. There are APH WMAs up there as well as lots of national forest lands. Most counties are one buck and no does, though. On my place it's 3 buck, two doe. In Texas, it's county by county on limits.

I'll tell you this, I used to lament that the poor man like me had no place to hunt. I bought my little 10 acres of deer heaven. I hunt it, use it to recreate on. If I caught someone down there I'd be REAL POed. Why? Because that place costs me 400 a year in TAXES not to mention it was MY money and sweat that paid for that place! What the HELL gives you the right to set foot on it???? Well, you won't be hunting in PRISON, feller, can tell ya THAT much! I carry a cell phone an 911 ain't hard to dial. And, when I'm down there, I'm always armed. After buying your own place, you sorta get the land owner's side of things and I don't even run cows. I'd imagine if you lost a few cows to "hunters", you'd be more than a little miffed.

There are states with lots of public land. Texas is not one of them and property rights are strong in this state. Don't like it, move to New Mexico, pretty simple. Been thinkin' of doing that myself, but I'd miss my duck hunting.

 

[Art Eatman]

You look at the profitability of ranching in today's world, and you get a different picture of the Texas hunting deal.

Even with the tax break for "agricultural land", taxes aren't cheap. The return per acre on livestock is relatively low, particularly with today's costs of food, transportation and utilities.

Say you're in country where you run a cow/calf per twenty acres. You sell the calf for $400. $20/acre return. School tax is $1/acre, or 5% of your gross income. Then there's the cost of winter feed, and then income tax.

Deer leasing really got going after WW II. City folks' rising salaries meant that ability to pay increased, so demand grew, so lease prices went up. I saw all that coming, back in the 1970s, which is why I bought into my deal back then. And bought other land as cheap as I could, just so I'd have a place to hunt no matter what the lease market did...

Nowadays, a lot of ranchers would go broke if they couldn't sell that trespass fee. That's just life in the country, folks.

And then add in what redneckrepairs said. I've seen all that, too.

Back when my bunch was leasing over near Uvalde, it was a matter of honor to help fix fence or help doctor screwworms or whatever the rancher needed. Just part of the deal. The rancher never asked for any help, but when you were raised around farming and ranching, you don't quit on someone...

Art

 

[MCgunner]

On the subject of hogs, to irradicate hogs, hunting is NOT the best way. Get someone hunting your place with dogs and you'll thin 'em out and use traps. It's not smart to let any redneck with a rifle trapes around on your place or some city slicker idiot that don't know a cow from a hog. Think about it, if it was YOUR livelihood on the line, YOUR cows. Cows ain't cheap now days. My best friend just leased some grazing land and is buying cows to put on it. The cost made me choke. LOL He owns some land his brother-in-law plants. He runs an insurance agency and has real estate. He's just doing the cows for "fun". Go figure, but he just wanted to do it. He knows he ain't gonna make much, if any, other than maybe his investment back and have the fun of working with it.

 

[dracphelan]

Texas land owners wouldn't get a dime of my money, I have hunted on public land all my life and I'd be d^%*ed if I pay to shoot a state owned animal. To each his own and y-all do what ya like, but it would take the fun out of hunting to me. I have yet to see the deer worth $1500 to me much less the goat sized deer I have see from some Southern Central areas of the country.

Well, part of what you are paying for is safety/lower hunter density. With the nitwits we get on public lands here, you could completely cover yourself with hunter safety orange and still risk being shot at by people who shot at the slightest movement. I use the following as an example:
http://thelawdogfiles.blogspot.com/2007/09/top-dove.html

 

[alsaqr]

Do you hear all the railing on message boards about mothers with kids being on welfare?

Well, big farms and ranches are on federal welfare. 70 percent of federal farm welfare money goes to 10 percent of recipients. Find out who the farm welfare king in your county is. Maybe the receipt of farm welfare money should be tied to allowing hunters on their properties.

http://farm.ewg.org/farm/top_recips.php?fips=48000&progcode=total

 

[koja48]

nitwits we get on public lands

Unfortunately, idiots abound . . . but we CAN police that.