Let's get to the bottom of something

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Comparing it to a Mercedes is a terrible thing to do to a Smith revolver. They are much better than Mercedes. Everyone I've ever known who has bought a Mercedes has been shocked at how often the cars break down and how expensive they are to fix. Fortunately for Mercedes, most buyers are so rich they don't even know when the car breaks because someone fixes it for them without bothering them with the details or costs. I don't know what Smith service is like because I've never had a Smith revolvoer malfunction. Ever.

The Ruger is Toyota-like in its reliability, but on the rare occasion when they do break, Ruger service is much better than Toyota service.
 
"Let's get to the bottom of something ....Unrefined,Clunky.

IMO best represented by RG .38spl. Yep this fine ...err...specimen... "spit lead downrange" ...sometimes even down the bbl... :uhoh: :D

Smith vs Ruger, Nope ain't gonna go there. This is the Revolver Forum. Way too many classic designs of these two companies and others not mentioned. Different tasks for different designs. Yep I have my druthers, but my druthers are for my tasks and needs.

I ran 75 rds of .454 Casull the other day, out of a 7.5" Ruger, :cool: kinda hard to tote for CCW and besides, them there cartridges wouldn't fit in a Model 10 2" snubby.

Granted the .44 mags I shot I had a choice of SA out of a BH or DA out of a 29...so I gave equal time...:D

IMNSHO if you want "unrefined and clunky" , find an old RG...:p
 
Why people hang on to the concept that the Ruger built larger for their strength is beyond me. The GP's tips the scales at the same weight of the L-frame and can fit the same holsters. The SP's are actually more closely related to the K-frame than the J-frame. They were never built to be pocket revolvers. The facts shouldn't be denied just because you favor one over the other.

BTW, the Mercedes I owned had 2 major failures, water pump and water control valve, over the 15 year period and 280,000 miles with me. Not a bad track record IMO. With regular servicing (change oils and filters, adjust valves, replace glow plugs as needed) it ran everyday as my primary vehicle and I'm by no means rich or even can be considered well off. Just a ordinary working guy who gets his hands dirty on the job.
 
I have yet to OWN a SW revolver. In fact... growing up I only knew a few people that favored them. I am SURE I'm in the minority here.

Clunky is NOT how I'd describe either a GP 100 or a full sized 686.
 
Purely subjective , i like the balance of a Smith better , Also I find the Rugers "fugly" , again purely subjective. I hate that big goober of metal in place of the svelte Smith recoil shield , and before you say that contributes to the strength ,,, when was the last time you saw a Smith blow a recoil shield , or a sideplate, cmon Jim , I respect your revolver knowledge , but "no side plate to blow out" ???? by the time the sideplate or recoil shield give up the ghost, cylinder and topstrap would be in a different zipcode. Ray
 
Just an observation, but I've handled several Rugers (and own a few), both SA and DA, both used and new, and none have ever locked-up like a bank vault. On the other hand, I've handled several S&Ws (also own a few) that have. For all I know, there is an engineering or design reason for this limited experience, or perhaps it is just chance. Also, for me at least, I find my S&W's more accurate and easier to shoot for the most part than my Rugers (although my Single Six is very accurate and easy to shoot with either cylinder). Granted my sample is small, and I am in no way knocking my Rugers. I think they're great guns, but to me at least, the Smiths seem to be built just a little better.

I also read Mr. March's many posts, and know he is far more knowledgeable than I. But based on this experience, I have a hard time seeing how they can be far better engineered. Stronger, certainly, but strength is only one aspect of engineering.
 
Hate to see some of these autochucker types dragging their goofy proclivities in here.

Oh, well, may as well get into the new spirit of things:

d00d! My gun r00lz! yUrz sux!
How is S&W vs Ruger goofier than Wheelgunners vs "Autochucker types"?
 
JohnKSa,

How is S&W vs Ruger goofier than Wheelgunners vs "Autochucker types"?

Well, John, It's a mindset thing.

Scroll through the various old threads in the Revolver forum and the Bottomfeeder forum and tell me which one has more silly, namecalling, hate-filled "Brand X rules and Brand Y sucks!" threads. This is objectively verifiable.

Wheelgunners just don't seem to get as wrapped around the axle in the dogma of their particular camp. When my friend buys a Colt Detective Special and I tease him about it being "pretty nice for a Brand X revolver," he knows I'm joking, as he's heard me wax rhapsodic for hours on end about the pre-'63 Dick Special I once owned and foolishly let get away. Jim March knows that when I dog him about his fascination for crude Ruger tractor guns, it's all in jest, as I like my Vaqueros just fine.

Maybe it's because when you're secure enough to pack a gun that only holds five or six shots, you don't feel the need to defend your choice by slamming others. Maybe it's that we realize that all revolvers are more or less equally outdated. Whatever the reason, you just don't see the level of vitriol-slinging and nitpicking in the revolver forum that you do in the autoloader arena.

Pardon me, but I have to go find a "Glock v. 1911" or "Are Steyrs Unsafe?" thread to chime in on. ;)
 
Gee, I wish I were "secure" enough to carry a gun with only 5 or 6 rounds of ammo. :(

Wait! What if I just load my magazine halfway! :D

Yeah, I know--only an autochucker type would say something goofy like that. ;)
 
...of course I'd be interested in hearing any alternate explanations for the easily demonstrable disparity in civility between the two forums. :)




______________
Revolvers: A Mature Technology For Mature Users.
 
Naw, you're right. Us autochucker types are a few steps down on the evolutionary scale.

I hear it all the time from the shotgunners--just caught me by surprise coming from a fellow handgunner.
 
John,

There's a semiauto on my hip as I type this. (...and a revolver in my pocket, but I digress. ;) )

It may be that the preponderance of hot-blooded twenty-somethings, when they go out to buy their first handgun, go out to buy a semiauto. I know that ten or fifteen years ago I'd've happily engaged in some "My brand is best!" flamefest.

I think that most folks who own revolvers in this day and age are either: A) Older shooters, or B) Folks who've been shooting handguns a while and decided to buy a revolver to see what they're like. These people seem less likely to get caught up in movie catchphrase hype and gunzine nonsense about "The Ultimate [Carry/Combat/Concealment/Backup] [9mm/.40/.45/Cartridge/Pistol/Hideout]!"

Take it for what it's worth...

Any alternate explanations for the difference in tone between the two forums? I'm honestly curious about other viewpoints.
 
Of all the basic engineering upgrades the GP100 has over the L-Frame, the lack of sideplates is admittedly not a major issue.

The ability to disassemble the GP without boogering any screws ('cept the easily replaced grip screw) is more valuable, but above all I'd say the on-crane lockup will matter more than anything else. S&W gave up on that after the triple-lock because it was too expensive, going back to at least a minimal crane detent ball on the X-Frame just to handle that monster caliber. But it's lacking on all lesser-framed S&Ws, yet present on both the SP101, GP100, SRH and I think all the rest of the DAs, though I haven't personally looked.

Freezing the crane on firing is incredibly valuable for both long-term wear, reliability and accuracy.
 
Well, I don't really like smileys so I don't always use them as much as I should, and you can't see my facial expression so you're probably taking me more seriously than is warranted. Even for those who know me in person, it's a common error.

All right, serious now. To tell you the truth, I hadn't read the two forums with that in mind. You could be right, and you could be right about why, but I'm probably not going to spend the time to prove you right or wrong. Could be that the demographics of wheelgunners tend to a bit less adrenalin and a bit more experience. How's that for diplomatic? (The serious sort of wore off toward the end there.)

Seriously, I have noticed that in spite of the fact that I've never been much for revolvers, in the last year or so I've been eyeing the wheelguns more than the autos. Could be a phase, could be a progression. I'll let you know in another decade or so...
 
Tamara, I can't find any fault in your reasoning in regard to attitudes between the two platforms.

Surely it has not been that long ago LEO's qual'd from 50 yards, shot placement was the key, not capacity.

I wonder if IDPA / IPSC and internet spurred the attitudes in the two camps.

Maturity is not age specific it is said, but that sounds condesending. Perhaps just "quiet confidence" in the ability of one's skills with revolver does not require the seeking of others to qualify a chosen platform.

Thought provoking indeed.
 
Oh. Heh. Interesting, Tamara. I assume it's a ball-detent system like the X-Frames?

I don't know if that's better than Ruger's "interlocked second latch controlled by the rear switch" or not. I suspect the S&W ball-detent is a slightly more precise alignment, but not as strong as the Ruger latch system. The Ruger might have a fractional amount of lateral slop in it but it will NOT let the crane seriously move under recoil, whereas really major recoil or a failure of the REAR latch on an S&W could cause the ball detent to come completely out and loose.

In other words, I suspect Ruger favored raw toughness, S&W favored accuracy. Probably more of a theoretical difference than practical though.

Dan Wessons are backwards from S&W practice: hard latch at the FRONT, ball-detent at the back.
 
Maybe I'm a transitional species, the missing link as it were.:D

I have engaged in those autopistol debates, because they are one of the few times in my life where I don't have to act my age.;)

I bought a revolver primarily because I am tired of playing step and fetch for my brass.

I was absolutely chagrined to find that the revolver community, which I had hoped had a higer overall maturity level for some reason, gets into unfounded criticism and outright misinformation about revolvers that happen to not be their preference, just like the "immature" autopistol fanboyz.:rolleyes:

So my instinct, for good or ill, was to call 'em out a little bit and at least have the more vocal ones try and substantiate what they were saying.

If that brought a little of the "autochucker" mentality over here and offended anyone, I apologize.

I will just leave it at that. I really like my new GP-100. The more I shoot it, the more revolvers, both Rugers and S&Ws, I see myself buying.
 
To throw gasoline on a blazing fire, neither the Ruger or the Smith locks up as tight as a classic Colt. :neener:


......as I duck and haul a$$ for the closest door.
 
Jim March, thanks for the valuable explanation. I should add that of the 30 or so Rugers I've checked out (admittedly a small sample), while none lokced up like a bank vault, none had an excessive amount of play either. Out of the approximately 60 Smiths I've checked out, whereas about 8 locked up like a bank vault, I remember 3 that had a lot of slop and 2 out of these 3 had endshake. Admittedly, these 2 were 50 years old or more, but the other one with a lot of slop, but no endshake was a 586.

Perhaps they're a little like golf clubs, something I know a little more about (though still not a lot). A cast club is generally stronger and resists scratching, dents, etc. more so than a forged club. A cast club is also easier to distribute weight thoughout the club head to wherever needed. Whereas a forged club is softer, it is also generally prettier and more appealing to the eye. Also the tolerances on a well-made forged club are tighter. For example, a well-struck shot with a cast club may go 170 yards one time and 173 the next, whereas a well struck shot with a forged club will go 172 yards one time and 173 the next. There's great examples of both types and great players can be found using both, or even switching from one to the other and back again.

Tamara, I think another reason is the 'coolness' factor. When you're out shooting your revolver, and someone else comes along who is also shooting a revolver, you think,"hey that's cool." You don't care if they're shooting a Ruger, Smith, Colt, or Taurus. Whereas someone who's shooting a $600 + semi, when they hear someone else popping off 10-15 rounds at a time, they may be thinking,"there's no way his/her pistol is better than mine." Perhaps this carries over a bit to the forums.
 
Okay since it was brought up, How do the Colts compare in Lock-Up. I admit, most of my experience has been with Old Smiths and Rugers. Rugers like Security Six ...and the comparison of lock-up on older Rugers and newer ones.

I also got to thinking about the Revolver thing again. In teaching folks I noticed something, Gender. Females , even the kids took the Revolver as a tool and wanted to learn everything from safety, to shooting. As a general rule the ladies were better students, and often better shooters. Males, even the kids, wanted to shoot semi's ( looked cooler and shot faster).

Granted many ladies bought a used / police trade-in Revolver as first CCW and spent monies on ammo and training. Guys bought the semi's...might not have monies to afford ammo, nor could they afford to shoot, but they had the semi.

Now some ladies did later buy a semi, again used, say a 3913 or Glock 26. they had learned to shoot on a Revolver, just needed something "more flat" to aid in concealment dependent on attire, like a bellyband for use with certain outfits.
 
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