Let's talk .380 Auto again generally, and the Shield EZ specifically

[DannyLandrum]

I dislike the .380 acp due to it being weaker and yet more expensive than 9mm, but despite that, am considering getting a Shield EZ, just due to how phenomenally innovative it is, and in case I get married (I don't have a problem with "regular" guns myself, but....).

Shield EZ improvements / difference to make it user-friendly to women and newbies:
-Flared rear of slide on both sides, just behind the large scalloping, to give your thumb and finger good purchase for racking
-The large scalloping itself helps with same said finger purchase, apart from the flares - this is a feature in common with all 2.0 M&Ps (was there ever a Gen 1 Shield EZ even made?)
-Pegs on the mag follower for loading ease
-Longer slide for better shootability (and less cocking effort; weak spring / longer length)
-Grip safety
-One less takedown step (no need to flip the little bar like other Shields)

Then, you can get it with or without the manual safety (not a feature making it "easier"; just different).
This thing is truly a great idea, that the market needed.

But as always, the question is, "Is .380 auto enough for self-dense?", which I know has been hashed through a million times, but with the modern bullets of the last few years, have our minds been changed, or are most of you still of my same mindset that it's not "adequate" for all-purpose self-defense, keeping in mind there are many 9mms as small or smaller than this one? Would the follow up shot ease and "shootability" factor overcome your hesitation about the chambering?

What are some of the best bullets / loads these days for self-defense? Is the old idea of using fmj ammo for .380 to maximize penetration still true, or are HPs generally considered best - penetrative enough for most civilian self-defense scenarios.

I've found some threads where guys reload .380 with 9mm dies, so there's that....

Anyone shot the EZ, and what do you think? There's a sale on it right now. Will probably pass, but wanted to get some ideas.

 

[340PD]

I have seen a number of Shield EX's come into our range. Everyone that has shot them seems to be like the gun. They are much easier to rack than the competition and their size seems to be a perfect combination of size, wt. vs. recoil. Don't put down the power of the .380 round lots of manufacturers make very effective ammo in that caliber and with the popularity of the .380 prices have come down. Check out these guys. I use their Xtreme Defender ammo in my 9mm's.

.380 test

 

[Livin_Cincy]

The 380 ACP is excessively powerful based on the number of times James Bond saved the ENTIRE WORLD with a 32 Auto...

 

[DPris]

You'll get opposing answers, but I do not & will not accept the idea that the FMJ is the best way to go for penetration.
You don't just want penetration, you want as much tissue disruption as possible, and FMJs don't give you that.

And no- placement is NOT everything.

A good premium .380 JHP, or one of the specialty bullets like Black Hills offers, is much advanced over what the caliber used to provide in terminal effectiveness.
It remains borderline as a defensive caliber.

As for the pistol, I have one here that came in as a test sample, which impressed me enough to buy it.
Denis

 

[C0untZer0]

Does anyone shoot the M&P 380 Shield EZ with a thumbs forward grip?

 

[edwardware]

I'm about 6 months into teaching an older (65+) lady with arthritic hands to shoot defensive pistol. The 380 EZ is where we settled for ease of use; it's wonderful for low hand strength shooters.

As for .380 ammo selection, data! Seems to me that the only way to get ideal penetration out of a .380 is to use a bullet that acts much like a FMJ.

 

[C0untZer0]

I think it is true that expansion has to be limited on the 380 to get penetration over 12 inches. The rounds that expand to .500" (like .380 Federal HSTs) are penetrating between 10 and 11 inches. But how much penetration do you consider "ideal penetration" ?

The XTPs are going 13 to 14 inches, the Lehigh Extreme Defender is penetrating to around 14 inches.

There are some rounds that don't expand and penetrate from 15 to 17 inches, but most non-hollow points zip out the back of a 18" gel block.

 

[C0untZer0]

According to Lucky Gunner's tests, the Remington 88gr HTP is one of the best performing and most consistent rounds you can buy:



The Corbon PowRBall did pretty well too

 

[commygun]

I got one a couple of weeks ago. I shouldn’t need any of it’s EZ features for some time to come but, let’s face it, absolutely no one is getting any younger and I figured I may as well get my old age pistol now before they suddenly decide to stop producing them.
I have to say I’m very impressed. It’s well thought out, performs as advertised, and is just a very well behaved pistol. .380 can be snappy even in some all-steel mid-sized pistols, but that wasn’t case with the EZ. Any recoil simply didn’t register with me and it was easy to shoot the bullseye out of the target at 7 yards. It reminded me of my Walther PP in 7.65, a gun with such good manners that it’s usefulness for self-defense may be much greater than it’s anemic caliber suggests.
My only complaints (and they’re not really complaints) are that the slide stop is a little stiff and a fully loaded magazine has to be rapped in pretty sharply to catch the catch. I imagine both things will ease with use.

 

[viking499]

My wife has arthritis and I picked her up one of these last year. It works perfect for her. She also says it is easier to shoot than any of the pistols she has had or shot over the years.

 

[DPris]

I figured I can make it another month or two before I'll NEED the EZ myself, but why wait till the price doubles by the time I do?
And seriously, don't get too hung up on penetration being your magic criteria.
It ain't.
Denis

 

[Walkalong]

I've found some threads where guys reload .380 with 9mm dies, so there's that....

I wouldn't recommend it.

 

[Walkalong]

The Shield EZ .380 is an interesting little gun. I really wonder why they chose to give it a grip safety.

 

[Paul7]

In the real world, not much difference between using the .380 and 9mm on perps.

https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power

 

[viking499]

I just wonder if there is a 9mm EZ in the future......?

 

[justdino]

We bought my mother (82) an EZ and she does well with it - better than anything else she tried.

Hers did need a few hundred rounds to break in for reliable feeding/extraction (noted by a few others) but it’s now a pleasure for her to use.

If there’s a 9mm EZ in the future, I’ll be in that line.

 

[FL-NC]

A 380 (or any other caliber) is enough for self defense unless/until it doesn't work. More power increases the chance of a favorable outcome. Its that simple. Choosing a 380 over a 9mm in this day and age is foolish in my opinion. There are many good compact 9mm handguns designed for CCW available at reasonable prices today, such as the S&W shield or Ruger LC9. So for the trade-off of more power, cheaper ammo to use for practice, and a large selection of very effective SD ammo in exchange for a slightly larger pistol, it just makes more sense to me to choose the 9mm.

 

[Paul7]

A 380 (or any other caliber) is enough for self defense unless/until it doesn't work. More power increases the chance of a favorable outcome. Its that simple. Choosing a 380 over a 9mm in this day and age is foolish in my opinion. There are many good compact 9mm handguns designed for CCW available at reasonable prices today, such as the S&W shield or Ruger LC9. So for the trade-off of more power, cheaper ammo to use for practice, and a large selection of very effective SD ammo in exchange for a slightly larger pistol, it just makes more sense to me to choose the 9mm.

Except the facts don't bear that out, see post #14. The .380 will be more shootable also than a micro 9. I prefer the Glock 42 for pocket carry, IMHO any pistol larger is too big for that. YMMV.

 

[BlueHeelerFl]

I tried getting my Mom interested in the Shield EZ but she wants a revolver that she can pocket carry ( she actually likes the LCR).

The Shield EZ has a decent sized barrel, so you should get some better velocity out of it.

The Underwood Extreme Penetrators are good but pricy choice for ammo. Good penetration and wound cavity

 

[bersaguy]

Every round, and platform that uses it, is a compromise of some sort. For personal defense, we all seem to want the power of 44mag, but without over-penetration, the recoil of a .22 short, in a package concealable in a speedo. Oh, and at least a 10 round capacity....but physics won't deliver that, so we make a compromise. For many, myself included, .380 offers the least acceptable power, in the largest acceptable package for everyday carry. Recoil, shootability and capacity are functions of what seem to be the two biggest qualifiers for a concealed carry weapon, power and size. Is .380 enough? Yeah, I think for civilian self defense, the round has over a 100 year track record of being an effective round. Is it optimal? No, not in terms of terminal ballistics, but it comes in a package small enough to always be with me...which is a big deal. I can carry my TCP 100% of the time.
I carry Hornady's Critical Defense, and I practice with my carry gun. Really, any examination of the effectiveness of a carry round should include how well and quickly you can put those rounds on target, and how automatic that is. Two rounds of 380 in the center mass of an attacker is most likely leathal, and will stop the vast majority of people looking to do you harm.

 

[Tallball]

I handled an EZ and was very impressed. It seems like an excellent choice for someone who's "not a gun person".

And while 9mm is more powerful, that's useless to someone with weak or damaged hands who can't rack the slide and/or can't tolerate the recoil of a 9mm pistol.

The EZ is a smart marketing move by S&W, imho.

 

[WYO]

The Shield EZ .380 is an interesting little gun. I really wonder why they chose to give it a grip safety.

It is a hammer fired single action gun and the grip safety is what activates and de-activates the firing pin block.

It's a fun gun and easy to operate. Recoil is mild and it is accurate. My wife really likes it. She generally can shoot anything well, but she can shoot this one well and at a greater speed than other guns. I have chronographed numerous factory rounds using a Labradar, and the velocities are substantially better than those obtained with the same ammo through my Glock 42. They also exceed the numbers in the Lucky Gunner tests discussed earlier in this thread, some by a lot, especially with the heavier bullets. This means that you are getting as much output from this gun as you can wring out of the cartridge, and I do not know the validity of all the gel tests floating around the Internet. The gun is not a picky eater. I had no malfunctions with any of the premium rounds. The Federal Hydra Shoks seem to be the mildest and most accurate (MV 974 fps) for me.

I like the gun a lot. But, I am used to Glock triggers, and I have some issues making the transition, especially as it pertains to the reset.

On the negative side, the front sight is held in place by a weird C clamp. Holsters are hard to find.

This is the gun I would recommend to the occasional shooter ahead of the traditional 5 shot 2 inch J frame. Ballistics suffer in that gun anyway, and it is a lot harder to shoot. I would vet the EZ first, though, before turning it over. (If you look at Internet forums too much, you will hear some complaints about this gun, the same as any other gun.) The issue of whether to get a thumb safety or not is a personal choice. The one we have does not have the thumb safety.

ETA: I bought .380 dies, and .380 bullets can be purchased for about the same price as traditional 9mm bullets. That brings the cost of ammo way down if you already have some brass. Otherwise, Starline sells new .380 brass and you can still load it cheaper than factory.

YMMV

 

[Walkalong]

It is a hammer fired single action gun and the grip safety is what activates and de-activates the firing pin block.

Interesting, thanks. I wonder why they chose that method to do that.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

But as always, the question is, "Is .380 auto enough for self-dense?", which I know has been hashed through a million times, but with the modern bullets of the last few years, have our minds been changed, or are most of you still of my same mindset that it's not "adequate" for all-purpose self-defense, keeping in mind there are many 9mms as small or smaller than this one? Would the follow up shot ease and "shootability" factor overcome your hesitation about the chambering?

Personally I would not carry a 380. There are a number of guns out there with good reps that are only minimally bigger. However, if that's what your potential wife or anyone says they want to carry, and it's more pleasant for them to shoot, they will be more likely to practice and accomplish what really matter, hitting their target in a spot that counts.

So is it adequate? Maybe. Will I carry one? Nope. Would I fault anyone who does? Hell no.

A lower powered gun in the hands of a competent shooter is far more effective than a higher powered gun in the hands of a shmuk.

 

[IdaD]

I don't have a 380 but I'll probably get one at some point. I wouldn't get it in a gun this size, though - a 9mm Shield makes more sense. Where I think a 380 shines is when you drop down to an LCP type gun for pocket carry.