Let's talk about .22LR for defence

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22lr for defence........

Back on Dec.31st 1965 I was shot in the back with a 22 rifle while in Long Beach Calif. I was hit near the right shoulder blade and the bullet tracked around under my arm and stoped on my right side. I was 15 yrs. old and am a pretty good sized guy. The perps gave us fake name and adresses and split.
I was taken to the hospital and they kept asking me if I could breath alright... They thought the bullet has in my lung. Couldn't find it until they took an X-ray from the right side. Then the bullet was removed and I was observed for a couple hours and sent on my way. No real surgery as they just reached in with a long clamp anf pulled it back out the wound. About a dozen stiches and a big bandage and a some pills and "Good bye.":(
Getting shot makes you change your proirities to "get me to a hospital, NOW!!!" I don't care what the caliber is you forget about anything else!!!
Getting shot at a few yrs. later with Ak's and B-40 rockets bring back bad memories, and it still wasn't any fun except ya get to shoot back. :eek:
 
As far as I could tell, the OP asked about the caliber, and thus opened the door for discussion on that line...opinions on the caliber AND ammunition...to see what feedback he got...experiences, references, horror stories, etc.
That's what we've been doing for the most part.
Click to expand...

Not exactly... he wanted to know about the ammunition to use in his Berettas for self defense. This was not a discussion about should I do 22LR or 25 or 32 ACP? or whether many people are disabled and thus can only use 22LR's....but I think that he has enough answers and perhaps more....

I do agree with you on reliability.....it's paramount for self defense....Yet it's probably true that in revolvers it may be a bit less important compare to semi-autos, and the chance that a squib bullet is going to lodge itself mid-barrel is quite small....I can't imagine even using anything but the most reliable weapon/ammo combination for self-defense....whatever caliber/ammo you choose to use.
 
Shooter973 said:
Back on Dec.31st 1965 I was shot in the back with a 22 rifle while in Long Beach Calif. I was hit near the right shoulder blade and the bullet tracked around under my arm and stoped on my right side. I was 15 yrs. old and am a pretty good sized guy. The perps gave us fake name and adresses and split.
Click to expand...
What, you mean they lied?

This sounds like an accidental shooting, and that you were only shot one time. You also didn't say what kind of a weapon launched that .22LR round, but imagine if you had been shot five or six times repeatedly, very quickly. Even worse, what if you'd been shot while you were in a country where you didn't have the benefit of an x-ray or a trained medical team.

My dad grew up in Western Kentucky and could only afford an old .22LR, which he nailed squirrel and rabbits with after school. He also used cheap, cruddy ammo that he could drive tacks with. But back then, if a .22 round went into someone's chest, no one knew where it might end up, so no one screwed around with guns and even neighbors trusted kids not to shoot out windows or hit cattle.

One of the best guns I've EVER had was the Ruger Mark II autoloader with the 4 3/4-inch barrel. I also have one with a 6 7/8-inch barrel, but I really like the little guy.
 
1911Tuner:
I meant that I haven't had a revolver jam. My question about reliability and revolvers was posed rhetorically. Revolvers rarely, rarely malfunction, jam-wise; that's primarily a semi-auto issue. .22 semis can and do jam sometimes; some are real pains in the butt that way. The only semi I have that has never jammed is a 9X18 Makarov IJ70.

As far as squib loads are concerned, I've never had one yet in the thousands of .22 rounds I've shot. I know it can happen, but it seems to be a remote possibility. If I was forced to use .22LR for self-defense, I'd use the better quality ammo, like Velocitors or Aguila Super Maxes, not the bulk cheap-o practice stuff.
 
steve, I have to agree with you on those Federal bulk packs. My .22 rifles and MKII pistol love that load for accuracy and reliability. My pistol chokes on anything Remington makes. T22 from Winchester is fine, as is CCI anything, but for day to day use, it's all about those Federal bulk packs.

Gonna strap on the old MKII today and go for a walk with the dawg.
 
This is a good thread, but then as the OP, I'm somewhat biased :)

The real purpose behind my original question, was the thought that poorer neighborhoods have higher levels of violent crime, and poorer families either have no firearms, or cheap used plinkers, most likely .22LRs, and these guns tend to see a lot more action than the H&Ks that are stored behind the gates of the gated communities.

To throw in one anecdotal story, I recall reading about a young couple who were attacked in their home by armed thugs. The wife could only tolerate the recoil of a .22LR, and they had purchased a semi auto target style pistol to have as their "house gun". While the thugs beat and stabbed her husband, she managed to get away to the bedroom and retrieved the pistol, and returned to the aid of her husband. Coming up behind one of the perps who didn't see her, she efficiently put 2 rounds in the middle of his back. At the sound of the shots (.22LR is LOUD in a house) the attackers both fled. The guy with 2 rounds in him made it just outside the house where he collapsed in the dirt (remote house as I recall), only to then have his lights permanently turned off by his accomplice who drove over him in a truck while trying to escape. I do believe that .22LR has a role in self defence, and arguably, it has one of the most significant roles, because it is used so often.

PS - I love stories that have happy endings ;)
 
A hit with a 22 is better than a miss with a 45.:neener: I agree, just the thought of being shot with anything is a significant deterrent. A 22 is far from ideal, but a whole lot better than nothing. I also like the idea of emptying the magazine into his face.:D
 
Newton,

I am the eldest of four and when I was a kid, armed persons busted down the front door and I stopped that threat with a .22 revolver.
I started shooting that gun at age 3.

I would fire that gun again to defend myself, or those I had responsibility for.
Just information and I own these things and have to live with my life experiences.

I and mine have given away guns to folks in need. Some of these guns were .22 caliber for various reasons.
I have been just outside of a curtain when the rape kit was done, more than once.


So my Perspectives are not only shaped by the era I was raised in, and how Mentored, also history:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=3820341&postcount=14

Reality is real, and there are many that post replies that are just parroting of what they read, saw on TV, some movie or other source.

Some know and have to live the rest of their life with what they have had to do, in real life matters.

A .22 revolver with standard pressure 40 gr lrn will have a person stop what they are doing to a lady on the ground, blouse ripped open and panties pulled down and...
I know, I know all to well it will.

I do not have to qualify, and will not go further.
 
sm

Sounds like the .22 has done you and your family good service. Well done, you should be proud.
 
I have a S&W 617 6" Bbl. with the 10 shot cylinder. I have the full size Hogue grips in Coco Bolo wood. I'd love to have a K-frame in the same 10 shot cylinder but a 3" Bll. and compact grips with finger grooves & checkering for an option fto have for fun, as well as a gun I could give to a
person with little experience and they could figure it out with little problem .

I also like the new offering of the Kit gun S&W Model 63 with an 8 shot cylinder but let's have a 3" Bbl. Len. offiering for balance/handling.

heck S&W lists the Model 317 as a DUty/Carry piece - as a primary handgun?
SOrry gals but is this for wimmin llawyers or what ?
 
Re: 317

It was my understanding that gun was designed for two main reasons.
1. Physically Limited Persons
2. Quality practice with .22 for a center-fire.

Another was, a simple , light woods-walking , property, trap-line, fishing gun.

Back in the day the J frame .22 was used for quality lessons and practice for J frame .38 snub nose.

Model 18 a K frame, in .22 cal, was used for quality lessons and practice for K frames.

Police Depts did this.
Colt has .22 gun like the .38spl guns too.

So we have always "believed" a .22 firearm like a center fire was just smart.
Not just handguns, rifles too.

317 filled a niche, as mfgs quit making a small .22 revolver.
We have an aging society, add computers and Carpal Tunnel and S&W filled a niche - again.

Lots of folks bought these, and I know some THR members, and their families that use a 317 for defense -as they are physically limited.

Teaching tool for new shooters - lots of these for new shooters including kids.
These 317s fit kids hands.
Learning to shoot a revolver is still the way I assist, as that is how I was raised.

Duty gun/Carry gun?

Yep, 82 year old lady with a hip replacement, and that gun does not hurt her to carry concealed. Recoil does not bother a wrist /hand either, with arthritis.

317 is just a old concept brought back.

S&W needs to bring back the J frame 32 cal as well...
 
I know a young lady that carries a Beretta .22 - Bobcat I think. Is it legal? No. Would I rather see a bigger caliber? Of course. But thank God she has begun to protect herself, legal or not, and we'll work on calibers and permits later.
 
i feel pretty confident with a 22 first the 22 i have is a colt 22 targetsman my dad used it to kill our cows growing up he killed a lot of outher animals as well . i watch those cows drop right to the ground another thing he could shoot bottle caps of a tree as fast as you could pull the trigger im not that good but what im saying is i can shoot a coke bottle very fast and keep on target with mini mags i feel very safe . there is very little barrel jump so you can keep on target now this being said for a human and this pistol i would feel safe. for a dangerous animal no. do i carry a 22 for protection no. i carry ether my 357 or cz40p i do feel safer with a larger caliber
 
Kind of funny but just this weekend I explained to a new shooter (BRAND NEW SHOOTER) that I could run faster on two good legs than anyone can with shotout kneecaps.
 
i used to shoot stingers out of my beretta mdl 21a .22lr. while out plinking at a dump site decided to do a little penetration study at 7 feet, target being a discarded refrigerator door. they would not penetrate the outer skin at that distance, not even crack the metal, left a dent maybe 1/4" deep and bounced off.
the bbl. on this pocket auto not including the chamber is
1 1/2", all the extra velocity of the stingers was for naught through that short of a bbl. i think 6" bbl is minimum to use the extra velocity ammo and see any gain. but that 6" bbl puts the pistol relvolver out of the pocket.
now i load solids 40 gr rn. the little beretta fits in any pocket dead reliable if you do your part and keep it clean, double action on the first shot has that tip up bbl so it's easy to load unload safley . if called upon , it's there and can put several shots into an eye, temple, nasal cavity, with enough authority to make the reciepient call it off.
 
Again...The little pocket .22s are last-ditch, do-or-die belly guns, probably at their best when fired repeatedly into the soft mid-section of an attacker who has you in a bad spot and you've been unable to hold him at arm's length.

Sounds cold. Is cold. Personal, mano e mano life and death struggles can get ugly. The possible alternatives are a marble slab and a toe tag, or learning to pilot a wheelchair.
 
Two memories from my youth kept running my head as I read these posts.

First, memories as a young man slaughtering cows on the farm. We raised two or so a year for beef for our family and some friends. We would drop them with a single shot from a 22. The always went straight down.

Second, a funeral. A boy went off the deep end and tried to kill his parents with a 22. The funeral was for the mother. I don't recall where she was shot, but died from the wound. The father was shot repeatedly in the face. The hits bounced off cheek bones, ricocheted off teeth and more bone and either lodged or exited. He was out of the hospital in a day or two, and I saw him at the visitation.

If you must use a 22 for defense, it is shot placement. Two inch group accuracy isn't really good enough with this cartridge. You better be able to hit a dime first shot every time at self-defense ranges. Under pressure.

Clearly reliability is critical in any firearm for defense. But in this caliber, it better be reliable and accurate.
 
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