Lets talk about med kits

[kbellis3]

When I was setting up my 2 (+) years ago BUG Bag I looked at a lot of different products when I came across the Tactical Response and the Gear Store. The VOK and the Trauma Kits that they sell, helped me fill out my earlier attempts at putting together a no BS medical kit(which had been more fluff than substance until I got the VOK and the Trauma kits). I ended up setting up two BUG Bags, one for my truck and one for my car.

In my medical portion of my BUG BAG I have the normal sniffles kit asprins, tylenol, sunscreen, lip balm, small wound cleansing pads, immodium, band-aids and other stuff.

Then there is the serious side of my med kit, which includes the VOK and Trauma Kit. It also includes eye wash, eye patchs, (4) 4x4 pads, several smaller pads or various sizes, several different types of gause wrap, CPR Mask, wound packing material, bottle of Water-Jel, couple of large ACE bandages, EMT Shears, and some other items.

There is still stuff missing that I need to get, not the least of which is more medical training.

Ventalated Operators Kit



Trauma Kit 3
[URL="http://www.tacticalresponsegear.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=37_118&products_id=2144"]http://www.tacticalresponsegear.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=37_118&products_id=2144

 

[sacp81170a]

My question get restated. Why is it ridiculous to have pain killers. Some military issue kits have painkiller in them. Why do they put them in there?

Aha, the real question. The real answer? So you have them when the medic gets to you. That's the same reason you have a field dressing. It's not to use on other people, it's so when someone else is treating you there's one available. It makes it easier on the corpsman or medic when he doesn't have to lug enough bandages around for everybody. The medic would be the one who would determine if the morphine was needed.

BTW, they don't do that anymore except for elite forces who will have their own medics assigned. Too much potential for abuse if every private had morphine in their first aid kit.

 

[Sir Aardvark]

Not sure what country you live in, but Vicodin is Schedule III Narcotic

Vicoden (hydrocodone) is actually listed as a Schedule II drug on the following list provided by 45ACPUSER:

http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/scheduling.html

Other sources list this as a Schedule III drug.

My understanding is that this is indeed a Schedule III drug, not a Schedule II.
Oxycodone and Oxycontin are both Schedule II drugs.

What I was trying to say was that Vicodin was not a Schedule II drug and that it is easier to get a prescription for.
Oxycodone, being a Schedule II drug, is more difficult to obtain prescriptions for.
There has been talk of moving Vicodin into the Schedule II catagory due to it being frequently abused.

Sorry for any confusion.

 

[45ACPUSER]

Sorry but till most if not 99 percent of the readers get advanced training you have have really no biz have the aforementioned VOK. Here again this a kit with some good stuff, and some stuff that 99 percent of you have not been trained to use...sorry but you just do not go sticking needles in people's necks for needle cric's or chests to decompress pneumo's ......and most that is advanced life support interventions......

1) Cinch Tight Compression "H" Bandage
(1) TK-4 Tourni-Kwik (3” wide 40" long Rugged Combat Tourniquet)
(1) Primed Gauze (crinkle cotton)
(1) Nasopharyngeal Airway (30FR Robertazzi Style)
(1) 14ga x 3 ¼ Catheter (sterile)
(1) Alcohol Prep Pad
(2) Safety Pins (2”) multipurpose
(1) Duct Tape (2”x100” roll)
(1) Set Nitrile N-Dex Gloves
(1) Three gram tube of Surgilube

 

[3fgburner]

(1) Three gram tube of Surgilube

 

[45ACPUSER]

Oxycodone, being a Schedule II drug, is more difficult to obtain prescriptions for.
There has been talk of moving Vicodin into the Schedule II catagory due to it being frequently abused.

Sorry for any confusion.

Schedule II RX's are one shot prescriptions with no refill's; whereas Sked III RX's are able to be refilled up to 5x in six months. Anyone that can get provider to write you a legit RX will not have a lick of difference in the time it takes to get the RX filled, no different then getting Amoxicillin filled! More misinformation......

 

[sacp81170a]

(1) Three gram tube of Surgilube

It's for the nasopharyngeal airway, but 45acpuser is exactly right, you really, really, REALLY need training before you try to use it. The reason you want one on you is so someone who has been trained has it, just like the field dressing and the morphine styrette in a combat first aid kit. Most of the stuff in a VOK can be used with basic first aid knowledge, the other stuff is so someone who has medical training can use it if they're present. Fairly cheap and light insurance, but ya gotta know your limitations.

 

[sacp81170a]

double post

 

[Sir Aardvark]

Boy, I didn't think it would be so difficult to get my meaning across.

Anyone that can get provider to write you a legit RX...

this is exactly my point when I stated, "more difficult to obtain prescriptions for".

Anyone that can get the provider to write the RX can get it filled very easy, that wasn't my point. It is the "getting the provider to write the RX" part where the difficulty lies.

Doctor's are more likely to write you a RX for Vicodin than they would for Oxycodone/Oxycontin.

This would be especially true for when you go in and ask for a RX for Oxycontin for your "Survival/Med Kit" - they would most likely laugh at you for your "drug-seeking behavior".

More misinformation......

No misinformation, but apparently some difficulty in comprehension.

 

[Gene_WI]

Nothing substitutes training, I absolutely agree with this. Also I sure as hell do not intend to run around playing paramedic or any such non sense. I was asking primarily for an individual kits contents, to be used primarily in th event of not being able to receive proper care for an extend (days) period of time.

 

[ShackleMeNot]

Keep in mind that the contents of your VOK don't have to be used by you. They can be available to be used by someone with training that does not have a medical kit handy.

I've never understood the fear of blow out kits containing NPAs and decompression needles. Don't use them if you don't know what they do. Not to have them in a proper kit is irresponsible.

 

[45ACPUSER]

Keep in mind that the contents of your VOK don't have to be used by you. They can be available to be used by someone with training that does not have a medical kit handy.

I've never understood the fear of blow out kits containing NPAs and decompression needles. Don't use them if you don't know what they do. Not to have them in a proper kit is irresponsible.

Opinions vary, and my experience with people who have little or no training having access to ALS interventions has not been good over 27 yrs in EMS and I work in the ER of urban hosp. I have plenty of prehospital experince with trauma including a lot of GSW's! Back to what I said a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. Simply put BLS saves lives, and that requires a bit of training, some common sense, and basic first aid materials.

Just look at the erroneous posts in this thread! That validates my position over and over!

 

[Famine]

Well, I don't want to break up the pain killer/med talk, but…

I’m an avid backpacker. One year when I was out, a gentleman (not in my group) was severely hurt when he fell on a stick; it went through his thigh. So I started thinking, what if that was me? The first aid kit I carry is very small. A few bandages, splints, mole skin, you know, the normal stuff for backpacking. My first aid book says to apply a tourniquet and bandage the wound. I have those two items, but is there anything else I could be carrying for such a situation? And when does “internal bleeding” come into play? Is that only when an artery is severed, or an organ? …wait a minute…if I “severed” an organ, I guess I’d be dead. :banghead:

 

[45ACPUSER]

Guys, all this talk is fruitless! The answers lie with you all to quit keyboarding ! Go out and get the training! Remember you do not rise to the occasion you default to the level of your training! Yeah, that requires work on your part! Sorry there are no free lunches! Not at all! Preparation is the key to surviving most things! What is that old saying? 5 P's
Proper Preparation Prevents Poor Performance

 

[Regolith]

My first aid book says to apply a tourniquet and bandage the wound.

Tourniquets aren't recommended for most cases, as they cut off circulation to the rest of the limb and can cause widespread damage to oxygen deprived tissue. They're pretty much only to be used when the bleeding can not be stemmed in any other manner. The preferred method is to use sterile or clean dressing and apply direct pressure to the wound.

I agree with 45ACP. Best thing to do is to go and take a first aid class. I'm in the middle of taking one right now (its a 3 credit college course, comprising of one three hour class a week for 9 weeks). One of the smarter decisions I made lately.

 

[Famine]

Guys, all this talk is fruitless! The answers lie with you all to quit keyboarding ! Go out and get the training! Remember you do not rise to the occasion you default to the level of your training! Yeah, that requires work on your part! Sorry there are no free lunches! Not at all! Preparation is the key to surviving most things! What is that old saying? 5 P's
Proper Preparation Prevents Poor Performance

Wow, you're so right. How could I ask a stupid question on a thread called "Lets talk about med kits"? God forbid I wanted to know if there was anything else I could carry in my first aid kit when I go backpacking. I thought that perhaps someone might say, "Hey, in that situation, you might need _______ ," and I would look into it. It's really not that big of a freaking deal to suggest a bandaid. Did I ask how to make meth in my basement? Did I ask how to patch up some guy who was shot twice in the chest? Did I ask for the chemical composition of morphine? NO! I asked about a freaking bandaid. I guess forums are for nothing other than to call everyone stupid. Yeah, everyone gets it, get some training. Well, when I get a free minute, I'll go sign up so I can learn about wrapping gauze around my leg.

 

[45ACPUSER]

Most of you fail to get the point! If you get some training and get have hands with some tools you will figure out what works, but of course some of you just want to be the the one with the most toys, not tools! I fail to see why encouraging people to get training is a bad thing? Nope! Building skills is more important than having gear you have no freaking clue how to use. Just remember you will not rise to the occasion, but default to your level of training! Well, if you have no training, guess that you will be part of the problem and not the solution!

 

[SMLE]

Tourniquets aren't recommended for most cases, as they cut off circulation to the rest of the limb and can cause widespread damage to oxygen deprived tissue.

Actually, the current Pre Hospital Trauma Life Support (PHTLS) guidelines are much more in favor of Tourniquets than they used to be. This is based in part on recent Military experence. I would still consider it a last resort, but PHTLS now puts them as the second line after direct pressure.

 

[Regolith]

Actually, the current Pre Hospital Trauma Life Support (PHTLS) guidelines are much more in favor of Tourniquets than they used to be. This is based in part on recent Military experence. I would still consider it a last resort, but PHTLS now puts them as the second line after direct pressure.

I'm going off of 2005 AMA suggestions, so maybe they're not quite as up to date.

 

[Famine]

Personal Attacks

Personal attacks on another member will not be tolerated. Offending posts will be deleted and the member involved will lose his/her posting privledges. Personal attacks on anyone who is not a member here will not be tolerated.

I thought this quote from the rules page would be useful information for someone who is always talking about mis-information on this thread. Thanks for the PM...you're a real class act (note the sarcasm).

 

[Lupinus]

There is nothing wrong with asking reasonable questions. When someone asks how to slice someone open and fix that arterial bleed we can count that as a stupid question. Someone is asking a perfectly legitimate question here.

Training is a must, even if it's just a basic Red Cross first aid/cpr course. Check with your employer they may even offer this (mine does)

Aside from that keep it simple and in your means. If you don't know how to do something for the most part you don't need it in your kit. Go with a good range of bandages/trauma dressings/tape, gloves, ice packs, scissors, eye wash, hydrogen peroxide or some suitable wound wash, antiseptics, and creams. A CPR mask or two is also good to have.

Tylenol and aspirin both go in the bag as well. Aspirin has the added bonus if someone is having chest pain.

Stay away from even something like tramadol(Ultram). Giving medications you aren't trained for can have serious effects. This fact only goes up the more the person is injured. Your job is to keep them alive until they can get to professional help, not be their primary treatment.

One thing you might look into is an OTC Lidocaine cream. They sell some OTC ointments and such that go up to (as I recall) 4%. Thats weak enough to be safe but if applied to something like a sprained ankle or what not.

Also don't go crazy. Lots of bandages is fine and a good thing, but use common sense. I picked up a different first responder bag then I usually do the other day and it, no lie, had 10 CPR masks. Use common sense when stocking your kit.

 

[SMLE]

I'm going off of 2005 AMA suggestions, so maybe they're not quite as up to date.

Have a look at the 6th edition PHTLS text book. I took PHTLS this past summer as part of my Paramedic school.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

i've price shopped a few aed's goodness gracious not cheap. but could be worth it. i'm kinda fond of a few older folks i know and ain't getting any younger

 

[Exmasonite]

An Opthalmic-grade Anti-bacterial, Anti-inflamation ointment such as Cortisporin (or dexamethasone).

This could actually be a terrible idea. Triple AB is fine but start adding in any sort of corticosteroid and you are playing with fire. If you have any sort of corneal ulcer or loss corneal of integrity, all that steroid is going to do is melt your cornea right off your eye.


On other fronts, just a couple of random thoughts:

1) I could be wrong on this but i think gene's concern for stocking his kit is for himself and loved ones. not for every day good samaritan duty but more as a SHTF/Bug Out situation for himself and family.

2) i do agree w/ all the posts that you need to get some good training before you go off and do more harm than good.

 

[ojibweindian]

I was a Navy Corpsman, and the training I received, in both my A School and C School (Pharmacy Technician) has been invaluable, both in and out of the military. My father was a Marine Force Recon Corpsman, trained at Fort Bragg and, I think, somewhere in Texas. I'd trust him to work on me anytime.

While I'd love to have the equipment and medicines I had access to in the Navy, I can manage pretty well with what I have laying around. As one of my instructors (an FMF HM2) often said, "adapt, improvise, and overcome".