Lever action- Help me pick one.

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bofe954

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I have been debating picking up a lever action 30-30. My original plan was to buy used as cheap as possible and send it off for refinish/ghost rings and barrel reduction if necessary.

I then saw the winchester's factory with ghost rings, scout mount and 18 inch barrels.

Now with impending changes at Winchester I am thinking it may be time to jump on one. The MSRP's for the rifles are pretty high and if I feel like I am paying a premium to get a Winchester before they shut down I will revert back to my "buy used and send it in" plan.

So take down rifle or not. I was originally thinking take down for the simple fact that if I ever want to use the option I can and if I don't so what. I only want to buy the rifle once, I want to get what I want and be done with it. I don't want to buy a standard and then down the road buy a take down (or wish I did).

The problem is that I can't really think of a reason why I would NEED to take the rifle down. It may be nice to have a smaller case, it would look less rifle-like when I bring it out of my house to the range etc, but I don't do this with my other rifles. I am not a pilot or a big travelling hunter, if I was doing a lot of travelling hunting I am not sure a 30-30 lever is what I would be using anyway.

On to specific questions-

1. Are there disadvantages to the take down rifles?
2. The winchester in question- the takedown timber scout- has the rear sight on the receiver, will I have to rezero every time I break the rifle down?
3. What is the mechanism for taking the rifle apart, is it just a twist? Will I notice movement while shooting, could it get loose?

Here is a link to the take down version-
http://www.winchesterguns.com/prodinfo/catalog/detail.asp?cat_id=534&type_id=131&cat=003C

Here is the non- take down version-
http://www.winchesterguns.com/prodinfo/catalog/detail.asp?cat_id=534&type_id=119&cat=003C

Here is another option, no scope mount, but ported and 450 marlin-
http://www.winchesterguns.com/prodinfo/catalog/detail.asp?cat_id=534&type_id=105&cat=003C

Or should I just go Marlin, or just stick to the used plan?
 
I agree pauli. The only thing making me even think new is that I would like to stick to the ghost ring and 18 inch barrel or less plan. If I go that route I am not sure used would really save me much money. Plus, I haven't seen a used take down lever if I go that route.
 
I currently own about 7 lever actions.

The Marlin 336 will usually be more accurate than a Winchester 1894 in 30-30. If accuracy is a big concearn, I'd go with a Marlin. I have three Marlin lever guns; a 357, 44 mag and a 35Rem and all are fantastic shooters and very well made pieces.

- Brickboy240
 
So what is happening at Winchester? I haven't heard. (nevermind. Just saw the other thread)

I was considering selling my Winchester 94AE in 44 mag, but I might wait if they are changing things up. I was thinking of switching over to a shorter barreled Marlin .44. We'll see. I don't have enough experience shooting my levers to tell you which is better yet.
 
pauli said:
i'd go used. it's hard to think of anything easier to find than a used 30-30.
Click to expand...

Gunbroker.com's covered up in used Winchester .30-30's. Prices ain't bad on a lot of 'em. Customizing ain't all that bad on money either, really. I recall when I got my '94 (the one I'm always braggin' about) all I did to it was have a smith drill and tap the tang and then I mounted my tang sight. If you get one of the ones with the two little screws on the side, you can just mount a Williams FP or 5D and you're in business. If you get an AE version, Williams also makes a Guide to fit it IIRC. Ghost ring ain't that big a big deal to get. They made '94AE carbines (16" barrel) in .30-30 so you really wouldn't have to do a barrel shortening.
 
brickboy240 said:
I currently own about 7 lever actions.

The Marlin 336 will usually be more accurate than a Winchester 1894 in 30-30. If accuracy is a big concearn, I'd go with a Marlin. I have three Marlin lever guns; a 357, 44 mag and a 35Rem and all are fantastic shooters and very well made pieces.
Click to expand...

That opinion is formed on your own guns, is it not? I've found one man's opinion can be quite different from another's based on a big difference in results from one set of guns to the next.

IMO, I've seen no big difference in accuracy between Marlin and Winchester. It's mostly preference in a debate much like the one between Ford and Chevy.
 
pauli said:
i'd go used. it's hard to think of anything easier to find than a used 30-30.
Click to expand...
Very true. And you can even get pre-64s for not much more than old post 64s. Worth the effort to find a pre-64. I have two, and the quality is markedly better than the new one I bought back in the early 1980s. You can tell the pre-64s by the metal butt plates.
 
Well, not quite the Ford-Chevy matchup to me; I think there are some practical differences. My preference is for the Marlin ejection, for certain. The old Winchester '94's top-ejection precluded practical scope-mounting; I think Winchester also went through some rougher years as far as quality, while Marlin's lever-gun quality seemed more consistent and a bit better over the years ... Some also believe the Marlin 336, for example, is a stronger action than the 94's.

Accuracy can be subjective and dependent on the shooter ... But, my family Marlins do seem a bit more accurate, though to be fair, both the 94's are pretty old and have seen heavy use. I love both the Marlin 336 and the Win. 94, but I do think the 336 SS overall is better than any new production 94s.

I see a lot of used 94s around here going for $150, $175, $200 bucks.

Note no one's answered the OP's specific questions (I've no experience with any of the takedown models).
1. Are there disadvantages to the take down rifles?
Click to expand...
FWIW, I've never really seen any practical advantages, save maybe for hikers, boaters or on a small plane, anywhere there may not be a spare three and half foot-length space to stick a rifle, or if one needed to tote the rifle around in such a way that it wasn't obviously a rifle ...
 
The Real Hawkeye said:
Very true. And you can even get pre-64s for not much more than old post 64s. Worth the effort to find a pre-64. I have two, and the quality is markedly better than the new one I bought back in the early 1980s. You can tell the pre-64s by the metal butt plates.
Click to expand...


So my grandpas gun is a Pre 64? Sweet.
 
Old Dog, I'm not in total disagreement with about your comments. We all have our own considerations too. You illustrated at least some of yours.

Well, not quite the Ford-Chevy matchup to me; I think there are some practical differences. My preference is for the Marlin ejection, for certain. The old Winchester '94's top-ejection precluded practical scope-mounting; I think Winchester also went through some rougher years as far as quality, while Marlin's lever-gun quality seemed more consistent and a bit better over the years ... Some also believe the Marlin 336, for example, is a stronger action than the 94's.
Click to expand...

Accuracy can be subjective and dependent on the shooter ... But, my family Marlins do seem a bit more accurate, though to be fair, both the 94's are pretty old and have seen heavy use. I love both the Marlin 336 and the Win. 94, but I do think the 336 SS overall is better than any new production 94s.
Click to expand...

I've had experience with both Marlin's 336 and Winchester's '94. The Marlin has a nice smooth action. It may or may not be any stronger, but I'm not planning on hotrodding my handloads to find out. But then, stuff happens. I've always said Marlin was better if somebody wants to scope it, but I just tend to shoot with the aperture on my '94. My Daddy likes to use a low-mounted scope on his Marlin. Neither I or my Daddy care for side-mounted scopes on top-eject '94's if for no other reason than because they're so odd.

The difference in quality... my bias, if you can call it that after hearing me say I like both makes, may be based on having an older '94 made with better quality and possibly to the same level as a Marlin made in the same time frame. I beleive the '94 I brag on was probably built in the mid-1960's. I really need to look up the serial # to know for sure.
 
I have owned quite a few lever guns and have 10 right now..

Most are now Marlins. I agree that they tend to be better shooters across the board than Winchesters. Nothing against the Winchester, just what I have noticed shooting leverguns. I also like the uncomplicated design of the Marlins. They can be totally disassembled with one or two screw drivers and most folks can do this. A modern Winchester is a combination of pins and screws and you need a mind similar to John Browning to take one a part.

Matt
 
Marlin has side eject. Winchester's lighter to carry. Either one will take a receiver sight. I don't see why everybody wants to bash Winchester when it's clearly a case of personal preference. Personally, I've shot a Winchester enough to know what I can do with it, which is to hit the target. I don't see where a Marlin, from my experience with both brands, will do anything a Winchester won't do. This is another topic, much like AR vs. Garand/M-14, that can be argued till hell freezes over and nobody's gonna convince anybody who's already got an opinion.

Tell you how someone new to this debate can settle it for themselves. Get a Marlin .30-30 and a Winchester .30-30, and I don't mean setting for just any of either but get the best you can find. Sight in and shoot both at various known distances and see which one fits and hits the best for the individual.
 
So no one has any experience with a take down model?

Seems to be the only reason to buy new I guess. I imagine I would go Marlin if I went used. I prefer the pistol grip and it seems like it is easier to find on a Marlin than a Winchester.

It's the take down that gets me right now. I was checking out smith work and the take down option alone on a Marlin at WWG is $550.00.

The winchester take down retails over $700 so if you paid $550-$600 it seems like it would be a pretty good deal for the take down rifle.

I agree with old dog, actually needing the taek down option is unlikely, but it would be cool and if no one can come up with reasons why it could be a detriment...

I am thinking I will look into the take down availability and if it is too spendy or difficult to get it will be 336C time.
 
just so i understand, the winchester takedown rifle costs $700? or is that the cost for a smith to make it a takedown?

WWG's takedown is $550, on your own gun. and most people wind up getting all kinds of other stuff done, like trigger happy kits, big loop levers, bear proof ejectors, rechamber it to .457mag, refinish, maybe a new stock, drill/tap for the scout scope, the mount, rings, and scope itself...

what you wind up getting though, is a very very very nice custom takedown levergun.
 
spacemanspiff- the take down rifle is linked in the first post. I looked again and I can't find it on their site now but my link still works. When I initially posted I checked the MSRP and it was 700ish for the complete rifle, and that's MSRP not real world price.

There is another post in rifle country about it where I think I posted the MSRP.

I am not knocking WWG's work or the price. I have been a customer there. I don't doubt that there is a lot of work/skill involved in cutting a rifle in half and then making it so it can be taken apart and put back together at will and still look and function well. It is definitely not a kit mod somebody could do at home on the cheap.

I know that a total custom from WWG would be superior in some ways to this rifle- if I can even get my hands on it.

My point is that for 700ish the rifle is a pretty good deal, it has a scope mount, peep sights, a nice looking stock and the takedown option. A manufacturer should be able to manufacture a takedown rifle for cheaper than someone can buy a rifle and completely change it, they just haven't so far. And since it seems to have left the website maybe they aren't.

This assumes that you need the takedown option and that it is an advantage, which is sort of what I am trying to figure out.
 
Bofe,

You and I seem to be on a parallel path :) . I posted a related query here just yesterday, wondering if Marlin would ever offer a take-down version of their 336: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=177603

You're right that Winchester did announce take-down versions within their 94 line, but then pulled them off their website a couple of days ago. In addition to the nicely equipped take-down Timber Scout http://tinyurl.com/8ac3a there was also the cheaper take-down Short Hunter http://tinyurl.com/8d3c7. I'm guessing with the recent announcement of the Connecticut plant closing that they won't be offered after all....:banghead:

I know I'd want a take-down 336 if they were available, but I don't think I'm ready to plunk down the money for a custom WWG conversion -- particularly since it would just get banged up inside a 20" long box...
 
oh, i know you werent knocking WWG's work on the marlins...
like you, i have a tough time seeing the true benefits of the takedown guide guns. aside from fitting better in a small airplane being flown out to a lodge, i'm a bit lost on the concept. and i'm an employee of WWG! :D

that being said, we take orders all the time, day in, day out, from people across the nation who like the idea. me though, with my budget, i'd just go with a regular marlin.

i've seen one marlin .30-30 that a customer had the shop turn into a takedown. it took a LONG time for them to finish it, and actually cost more than their 1895's in .457mag. well, it did have some engraving work done, that probably accounted for a good chunk of time/money.

my point being, there seems to be a reason that marlin isn't offering their rifles in takedown versions: too much cost. in the long run, that means that customers like myself are going to opt for the 'plain jane' levergun and call it good.

one thing i can think of is that i'd want my levergun to have the 18" barrel, so cut it and recrown it, slap the trigger happy kit, do the big loop, and bear proof ejector, and then i'd call it good. i'd probably not even opt to have it rechambered to .457mag, as reloading for the 45/70 will get you close to those ballistics.
 
Douglas- Exactly. I think I am at the point where I think the takedown is cool but not necessary. If I could get the Winchester for 700 or so I'd do it and live with the cost. It'd be worth it for the uniqueness and the rare occasion where it is handy to take the rifle down (it will probably never be necessary). So to turn a used Marlin into a $1000 rifle (let's face it, if it goes all the way to Alaska it ain't comin' back with just the takedown mod) just isn't going to happen.
 
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