Lever gun load for accuracy

[748]

My 94AE likes to shoot about a 3 to 4 inch groups at 100yd, which is fine for the thick forests on the east coast, not so good for the wide open spaces of NM. Some of that is my cheap simons scope which I'm going to replace here soon with something from leupold.
Problem with the scope is I can't get the cross hairs and target in focus at the same time like I can with any other decent scope.
I would like to try 150gr and lighter weight bullets first.
I bought some rem, win and fusion brand 150gr factory ammo. If any of those do any better I will try and duplicate their load.
I also want to try loading 130gr speer hot core and some 110gr 30carbine bullets.
My 2 main 30-30 propellants are H322 which works well for lighter bullets and 748 if you can imagine that. But 748 in 30-30 really only works best with the 170gr bullets.
First thing I will try is backing down the charge 1 to 4gr.

My current load from about 2002 is a 150 speer hot core on top of 33gr of H322 with a standard win large rifle primer.
Then when the barrel heats up, which takes as little as 3 shots and the group moves to the right 2 to 3 inches.
I'm going to guess there isn't much that can be done fix the heating problem, besides knowing how much and where it moves. The good news is once it heats up its pretty stable.
Since I am in the wide open high planes something flatter shooting would be nice. So I'm not really going to try any 170gr loads at less than the max.

Warning, most manuals have 31gr as the max load for H322 with a 150gr bullet. Do not use more than 31gr.
33gr is the recommend max load printed on the canister of propellant it's self.
33gr is definitely hotter than 150gr factory ammo.

Any pointers to altering the gun or ammo would be appreciated.

 

[brewer12345]

Buy a 30_06. Problem solved.

Have you tried factory leverevolution ammo? Very flat shooting and accurate in my experience.

 

[ybuck44]

Try Hornady FTX bullets, worked great on my Marlin. I was using imr 4064 but I am sure data can be found for the powders you have

 

[RPRNY]

The Leverevolution ammo or Lever powder and the Hornady 160 grs FTX are very accurate in both my 30-30 rifles. 35 grs of LVR delivers just over 2400 fps from my 20" Marlin and just under 2500 fps from my H&R 22" barrel. Top published loads of LVR with your 150 grs bullets should have you over 2500 fps at the muzzle. The Leverevolution powder really is a treat in 30-30.

 

[The Bushmaster]

170 gr Speer HCSP. 32 grains of W-748. 2100 fps from a 1949 WCF mod 94. 1 5/8" three shot group at 100 yard using IRON sights May travel slower then a 150 grain bullet, but it will travel farther.

Better yet...Get a .270 or as Brewer12345 said. Get a .30-06!! For God's sake, it's JUST a .30-30.

 

[brewer12345]

748, I moved from the east to the mountain west. All of a sudden the 150 yards I could do with the 35 rem lever didn't seem like such long range. Add elk into the mix and it is really not enough. So something bigger may be warranted. In the meantime, the leverevolution ammo/bullets/powder is probably your best bet. As a bonus, all through the ammo shortage you could buy leverevolution powder pretty readily.

 

[748]

There are no elk around here and I don't intend to hunt elk with a 30-30, elk hunting is a minimum 4hr drive north. I don't have time for such an adventure in the foreseeable future.

I have been looking for the factory loaded leverevolution ammo but just have not found any yet, may just have to order some.
Same goes with the leverevolution powder, haven't seen it. It's pretty rare that I add another powder but I would for this one.

Maybe I should have been more clear on the intended application. Not trying to hunt elk, mule deer or mountain goats if they even have those here.
But a compact light weight rifle, that I already own that holds more rounds than a typical bolt action that has iron sites for closer ranges 10 to 25 yards if need on jack rabbits, perry dogs and rattle snakes but still has optics and enough accuracy to still be a threat to coyotes as far out as possible and only carry 1 rifle while out on the atv or tractor.

Better yet...Get a .270 or as Brewer12345 said. Get a .30-06!!

Already have one.
If money were no object I what I would really like to have is a dpms gen 2 lower, a decent 22 or 24 inch bull barrel flat top probably in 308 or 6.5 and whatever my scope obsessed mechanical engineer friend recommends for a scope as long as it doesn't cost too much more than the gun it's sitting on.
I could easy cut a check for such a contraption but we are buying a house and a large chunk of land that unexpectedly came available while my wife is still out of work recovering from a scheduled sugery, so not making any large buys for the foreseeable future.

 

[GooseGestapo]

Try either LVR or RL15 powder.
Sierra 125,150,or 170gr bullets.

I've lately been using LVR, but can't tell the difference in accuracy between it and RL15. No significant speed difference, either.
I use the "old" data from the Lee #2 for RL15.
36.0gr w/125 and 150 (125 seats deep, compressed load)
34.0 w/170.
My Marlin/Glenfield M30 shoots 3-shot under 1"
My Win M94's have reciever sights, so are as accurate as I am...
However, I mostly shoot cast bullets over RL15... 160gr FNGC over 30.0 gr of RL15 puches way above its weight class.

With the Speer 130gr FN, you can get 37.5gr under the bullet. However, I find the Speer bullets to be too "hard" for our smaller deer. Best I've ever used were the 150 or 170 Corlokts, but Remington has left the components market.

 

[748]

You really think there is hardly a difference between RE15 and leverevolution powder?
Because I can find RE15 easy. I have seen it in a few different places this year, just have to remember where that was now.

The reason I started using speer hot core was because the Remington factory ammo corlok was just punching straight through on a lot of the Maine deer.
I loaded up some speer hot core because I heard that they used some fairly soft lead for the front half of the bullet. I tested them on ground hogs and found the speer bullets splattered the ground hogs far better than any 30-30 factory ammo.
Maybe lot to lot variations on those bullets.

 

[Sistema1927]

Can't help you with finding any Leverevolution ammo or with a load that will shoot better in your .30-30, but just wanted to say that we are praying for your community following the senseless shooting at the library. These things don't seem real when they happen in a sleepy quiet place like Clovis.

 

[GooseGestapo]

748; I suggest you check out some of the testing done by some of the members over at marlinowners.com. There is a vast wealth of knowledge and experience in all things lever-action over there. Warning though. Marlinitis is highly contagious. No known cure, only a highly addictive treatment. Periodic Marlin purchases.

Last September I bought TWO M1895 .45/70, though I already had a perfectly good '03 M1895 GuideGun. It was facilitated by the fact that it was all the particular Walmart had, and they were $257 each, after a Marlin rebate. One is still nib, other is in service.

The pressure curve is what sets LVR apart from other similar burn rate powders. It's more efficient at lower pressure than other similar powders hence its greater suitability in SOME l/a cartridges. I.e. CFE223 turns out to be Gods gift to the .25-35 and .25-36 with the new 110gr .257" FTX bullet.

Check out the bullet testing by member 35Remington at mo. Both .30 and .35 cal bullets. Good rainy day reads. Lots of pics.

Added, I haven't had any problem getting LVR either locally or online. MidSouth Shooters Supply has it in 1 and 8lb containers. $21.99 1lb, $160 8lb.

 

[748]

I have a little marlin, 22mag bolt action.
It shoots great.

I ordered the VX-2 scope in 4x12 power. Should be here this week. Don't know when I will be able to sight it in. Maybe next week.
Yes 12 power is probably over kill for a 30-30 but I don't really need anything less than 4x since it has open sites. I will probably just set it at 5 or 6 power and not touch it.

 

[748]

My shopping list looks like:
Factory loaded ammo...
Win 150gr silver tip
140gr Leverevolution

Component .308'' diameter projectiles...
Sierra 125gr flat hollow point
Speer 130gr hot core flat point
Speer 110gr jacketed HP for lever guns and 30carbine
Hornady 86gr Mauser round nose soft point.

The 86gr Mauser pistol bullets are just me screwing off. The Mauser pistol bullets if used will splatter jack rabbit all over curry county.

 

[RPRNY]

30-30 is a perfectly good deer and elk

My shopping list looks like:
Factory loaded ammo...
Win 150gr silver tip
140gr Leverevolution

Component .308'' diameter projectiles...
Sierra 125gr flat hollow point
Speer 130gr hot core flat point
Speer 110gr jacketed HP for lever guns and 30carbine
Hornady 86gr Mauser round nose soft point.

The 86gr Mauser pistol bullets are just me screwing off. The Mauser pistol bullets if used will splatter jack rabbit all over curry county.

Have used the Mauser bullets over Trail Boss as plinker loads for the kids and VERY effective critter control. The 30 Carbine 110 are also very effective for same.

 

[jmr40]

You can spend a fortune chasing accuracy and most likely not do significantly better. Around 3-4" groups at 100 is fairly common with Winchesters lever rifles from that era. Some older versions would do better, but the 94 AE's were not made at the pinnacle of Winchester quality. Some Marlins will do 2" and the rare rifle will occasionally shoot some 1" groups. If I could get 3 MOA from a Winchester 94 of that era I'd be thrilled and 4MOA wouldn't disappoint.

Hornady uses smoke and mirrors to make it look like their ammo shoots flatter. Look closely at their trajectory charts with the Leverevolution ammo. Almost every other ammo manufacturer shows 30-30 zeroed at 100 yards with drops shown at longer ranges. Hornady doesn't tell us what range they zero their leverevolution ammo. But show it being 2+ high at 200 yards. We can only guess, but it is probably zeroed somewhere between 225 and 250 yards. Of course it LOOKS like it has less drop at 300 yards. Take any other conventional 30-30 bullet and zero it at 225-250 yards and the trajectory at 300 yards is darn close to the Leverevolution ammo.

Your rifle is what it is, don't try to make it something it isn't. A 30-30 is more than enough gun for deer or elk when used within it's range and accuracy limitations. A 4X scope on your 30-30, or any other rifle, is all the magnification you need for big game out to 400 yards. A VX-1 in a 1-4X20 scope would be a much better option. What you NEED is a better quality scope than what you have, not more X's. The VX2 certainly has the quality, but a 4-12X scope on a 30-30 is more hindrance than help.

If you want flatter trajectory, plus the accuracy to take advantage of it you're chasing unicorns to try to make it happen with the rifle you have. There are several bolt guns that cost about the same or less than the scope you bought; they would be LIGHTER and more COMPACT than your 30-30; will shoot flatter, more accurately, hit harder, and do it with similar recoil. A 243, 260, 6.5, 7-08, or 308 would all do the job.

My advice is remove the scope from your Winchester and use the rifle for what it was designed for. And buy another rifle to use with the new scope.

 

[748]

I was looking at a bolt action savage in 6.5 the other day. It was $450 plus tax and didnt come with a scope or rings.
I don't know about a $250 commercially produced center fire rifle. Sounds sketchy to me.

I was reading some old gun magazin articles the other day and most of the time they were able to cut the group size in half just by finding the right ammo.
Typical ammo was shooting 3 to 4 inch groups giving typical lever gun accuracy. The right ammo was between 1 and 2, which works for me.
1 to 2 inch groups at 100yd should equal a dead coyote well past 200yd.
Heck I'll even dust off my case neck trimmer and uniform up all my reload casings.

If I add anything new to my collection I want it to be semi auto, detachable mag fed, all black, protruding pistol grip, threaded barrel, all the evil accessories.

 

[748]

Scope came in today.
I am working 12 hour shifts on nights all weekend including today. But I should at least be able to get the scope on this weekend and take it out hopefully next week and punch some holes in paper.

 

[GooseGestapo]

Don't sell short the l/a. A .30/30 sighted +3" at 100yds is -4" at 200yds and -12" at 300 with most loads. A bit flatter with LeverEvolution loads.

A bit of practice and you'll begin to appreciate the ole "fuddy thuddy".

 

[748]

Yeah if I find my self shooting 300+ I'll just have to swap it out and drag around my much bigger, heavier, longer bolt action.
Probably put that new scope on there too.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I see a lot of this, "it's only a 30-30" or "what do you expect from a 30-30?" The 30-30 is very capable for deer of all sizes. But then again, for some reason today's hunters seem to feel you need a 300 Win Mag for deer. When did they grow armor plated skin?

Why do you need to develop light loads for out past 200 yards? In the first post the OP said he is hunting in the thick woods of the Northeast. I'm lucky if I see a shot over 80 yards here in the Northeast of PA. I use a 170gr bullet to try and guard against bullet deflection from small twigs and branches.

My Grandfather used a 25-35 for deer. If he even thought to use a 30-30 his friends would ask him why he needed such a big gun? Don't try to reinvent the wheel, the 30-30 is just fine the way it is.

 

[748]

I don't live in new England any more. There it was mountains, hills and all were covered in trees. I'm in eastern new Mexico now, it's very flat and there are some trees.

If it's only going to be good for 100yd or so I should sell it next time I'm home since no one around here will want it.
I wasn't going to make dramatically reduced power rounds for long range. I was going to try loading lighter bullets at full power, just maybe not use the max charge. Just find the sweet spot hopefully only a few grains short of the max charge.

I took it to the range and the old cheap scope was part of the problem. Being able to see was good for about 1 inch at 100 yards.
The other problem is my max loaded reloaded ammo. All the factory ammo did a little better. Not an issue at 50 to 75 yards.
So it went from 4 to 6 inch groups down to less than 3 with a decent scope and the best ammo tested so far which was federal.
The recoil is softer with the factory ammo too.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

That's a good improvement and I'm sure it will work fine in the field.