Lever gun opinions? .44 Magnum vs. .444 Marlin

[The Tennessean]

Howdy gents, I come seeking advice on lever guns and various calibers of cartridges.

I am in the market for a multipurpose rifle I can take hiking/camping/hunting and also serve has a personal defense gun for my property (about 50 acres). I don't really think I need an autoloader like an AR or AK but I still would like a reasonably quick operating (if that makes sense) rifle which leads me to lever guns. The likelihood I would ever need this rifle for anything past 100 yards is slim - if something is that far away I'm probably not going to be shooting at it, that's just me.

Initially I thought a pistol caliber cartridge was the best route to take and had settled on a Marlin in .357 Magnum. I have a .357 revolver so the thinking was that I would only need to buy one ammo type. Since then I have done some reading and found that some people feel the .357 is lacking certain areas when used in a rifle. So that lead me to jump up a notch to the .44 Magnum but my thinking is if you're going to make that jump why not just go with a real rifle cartridge like the .444 Marlin?

I would love to hear some thoughts and opinion on this. I don't really have a timetable for my purchase so I have time to ponder this a bit. I'm not new to rifles or guns in general, just looking to hear some alternate views to my own.

Thanks in advance.

 

[john wall]

My personal advice is to look for a used Win or Marlin 30/30. Gun will be easier to find, much more reliable, powerful and flat shooting than 44, cheaper and less recoil than 444, and easier to find ammo. The 30/30 will defeat most bullet resistant vests and car bodies/windshields.

It is loaded with an expensive bullet made for the speed it generates, and is a definitive fight stopper with about any half was decent hit.

These guns are generally cheap between hunting seasons. Local pawn shops generally have them stacked like cordwood. Go in with cash, and don't consider the retail price they have on them. You do not need a pristine sample, just one with typical carry miles and low shooting miles with a good bore.

You might put a receiver sight on the gun if you are not young with eagle eyes.

 

[Bill_Rights]

Rossi/Puma in 454 Casull/45 Long Colt?

I have heard, so I bought one, that this chambering of the Winchester 1892 replica made in Brazil (Rossi = Taurus handguns, I think) is going out of production due to a factory move and (maybe temporary?) loss of tooling to produce the high-pressure receivers. The already-produced stock is going fairly rapidly at pre-SHOT-show prices of ~$450 (blued) and $550 (stainless).

This is a fairly attractive chambering because it can handle both the 45 Long Colt for fun plinking/practice and the devastating .454 Casull for serious stopping power.

Look at Rossi USA's web site (one of the slowest-loading in history) for options in lever guns.

 

[Wanta B]

IMO,if you chose to go up that much you should get a .45-70...With todays firearms and given the much greater availibility and variety of cowboy to modern loadings,the .45-70 now renders the .444Mar. basicaly obsolete. Even the .450Mar. is more widely seen now.

.44Mag is quite good for a gereral purpose catch-all...Better in IMO than the larger cartridge if HD is going to be the primary use.More rounds in the rifle.


I would not feel undergunned with a .357Mag. carbine or rifle for HD...I have taken a 285lbs.Black bear with my 16" carbine. Two shots...Secound shot was strictly follow thru',read SOP. Both rounds penetrated both lungs and heart. Did not exit however.

For HD purposes I think keeping things as simple as possible is best,(one type of ammoe is agood idea)...Coarse then again I tend to change my mind alot.

 

[Wanta B]

Bill_Rights---Good suggesttion. I have a shorty 16" SS Puma in .454Casul too. Good gun.Tho' ammoe is not as plentiful as .44Mag

.44Mag can use .44SPL for plinking...think they are more expensive however than .44Mags.

 

[stonecoldy]

This question is bound to bring out a lot of fans for the pistol caliber levers versus the .30/30 models.
I have a Marlin 1894C in .357 mag/.38 special; and a Marlin 336 in .30/30.
I like the 1894C for the capability of shooting cheaper lead round nosed flat point bullets in either the .357 mag or .38 special cases. We can't hunt deer with centerfire calibers in a rifle, but can in a revolver here in Ohio (the .357 mag, not the .38 special.
Right now I'm handloading lead flat point bullets in my .30/30 for basically the same use as the 1894C (plinking and possible pest control), so that has been economical also. I'm guessing here you can hunt deer with a .30/30 where you live. Personally I prefer a .30 caliber over the pistol cartridges for deer.
If you're concerned about initial purchase cost, the .30/30 will win, as john wall mentioned either as used or new over the 1894. They (1894's) seem to be somewhat difficult to find used or even new in southwest Ohio.
Personally, I think the 1894 is really fun to shoot. If I had 50 acres of land as you have access to, that would be my pick.
I have little experience with the .44 mag in a lever action.

 

[MichaelK]

Funny, I also have a 50 acre property, and I bought a .44 magnum to be the designated "ranch" gun. I worked up a Remington 240grain hollowpoint load with H110 for it and used it to take a mule deer. At 60 yards I get 100% penetration and a single exit hole. The deer simply leaped up in the air and dropped dead 30 feet from the spot I shot him. Unless they are re-introducing elk into Tennessee, I don't think you'll need a .444.

By the way, if you're interested in making your own high performance loads, you can swage .44 caliber bullets out of empty 40S&W cases.

 

[MachIVshooter]

I'll second Wanta B in the .45-70 suggestion. In a strong rifle (Marlin), it has no equal for levergun power, save the .450 Marlin, which was intended to duplicate high-performance .45-70 loads in a cartridge that could not be chambered in older, weaker .45-70 rifles.

But, it depends on what you want to do with it as well. I also have a Marlin 1894 in .44 mag and, while it pales in comparison to the .45-70, it's still a pretty formidable cartridge when fired from a rifle, producing more than 2,000 FPE. But the .45-70 can hit 3,500 FPE, and with heavier, more solidly constructed bullets.

 

[dewalt-2]

If a 100 yard rifle is what you're looking for then the 1894 in .357 or .44 is a good choice.
I have the 1894SS in .44 and love it. Very accurate at 100 yards with my hand loads, or high end commercial ammo like the Win Platinum Tips. Here's something to help persuade you....


If tack driver accuracy isn't a big concern, and an auto-loader isn't out of the question you might consider a Mini 30. Great little rifles at short range. I took a lot of Sitka Blacktail deer with this one when I lived in Alaska. Good for general kick-around, and easy to handle. Very reliable as well.


Good luck with your decision!
My Best,
Walt

 

[SaxonPig]

Personally, I think the idea of a lever rifle in a potent pistol caliber is a good idea. It worked in 1892 with the 44-40 and I think for many purposes such a rifle will still do the job.

I have a Winchester M94 "Trapper" with a 16" barrel that I find quite handy and while the 44 Magnum is a handful in a pistol in a 6 pound carbine the recoil is pretty tame.

Nothing wrong with the 444 Marlin but for the small advantage in velocity you give up ammo choice and availability. Plus most 444s only carry 4 or 5 rounds. My 94 loads 9 in the tube.

The 44 Mag would be my first choice for its power. The 357 would be OK but I want a bit more power in a rifle platform.

 

[Wanta B]

WEASTERN 3 GUN...google and check out some of the videos!! I have said for a couple of decades,a person that is practiced with a good pistol cal. levergun and a good modern revolver can,for HD purposes engage up to 5 targets with nearly the same speed and effect as a person with a modern militery type small arms weapon.

Dewalt-2---Nice Leveraction!!

 

[Big Matt]

Post #7 "By the way, if you're interested in making your own high performance loads, you can swage .44 caliber bullets out of empty 40S&W cases."

Please explain a bit more about this.

 

[Ed Ames]

I'm not a huge .357 fan, but I can't see why it wouldn't work just fine in your scenario.

It's all too easy to talk yourself up a notch, and then another notch, and then another, until you are convinced that the minimum you should carry is a .337 lapua with a .45-70 revolver for backup.

I'm as guilty as anyone (proof: I have a .454 lever gun) but the reality is that you will be well served with a .357, and the advantages of using the same ammo in both guns is real.

 

[LEVRLOVR]

I think the .44 mag. Marlin would be just the ticket for your situation.
Ammo to feed the .44 will be easier to find than the .444 also.

 

[wnycollector]

I have a Puma .44mag with a 20" barrel that holds 10+1 rounds. I think it would make a wonderfully versatile HD/ranch rifle. With 240gr SWC's it is cheap to plink with. Load it with 240gr JHP's for HD or 300+gr hard cast's for animals bigger game.

 

[fireside44]

So that lead me to jump up a notch to the .44 Magnum but my thinking is if you're going to make that jump why not just go with a real rifle cartridge like the .444 Marlin?

From what your usages will be, I don't see you gaining a lot of benefit from getting the .444 marlin. You said most of your use will be inside of 100 yards.

Unless you are hunting larger game frequently I would go with a .44 as well unless of course you do your own loading.

I shoot and load for a .444 marlin. It is a great cartridge IMO. Many have mentioned that "there is nothing it can do that a 45-70 can't" but I can think of one thing, less recoil. In a light rifle, warm loads in the 45-70 can be extremely abusive whereas the .444 is *comparatively* mild. This is coming from someone who enjoys recoil.

If it were me, I would get the .444 because I reload for it and so it is versatile and you are going to be dropping a fair amount of change on a nice lever rifle anyways. I have a .44 special pistol and .444 marlin rifle so it makes good economical sense for me.

 

[Gryffydd]

Initially I thought a pistol caliber cartridge was the best route to take and had settled on a Marlin in .357 Magnum. I have a .357 revolver so the thinking was that I would only need to buy one ammo type. Since then I have done some reading and found that some people feel the .357 is lacking certain areas when used in a rifle.

What areas would that be? Shooting Kodiak bears? Elk? Moose? From what you're listing as your planned use, the .357 would be perfectly adequate. 125gr rounds at 2300fps, 158gr at 2100fps. Out of a rifle it's a pretty respectable round. If you don't think you'd be happy with it, the .44 would work the same way but a bit better. The .444 doesn't really gain you anything except more cost, a bigger gun, and harder to find ammo.

 

[Wanta B]

Cartridge.................Rifle Wght......Recoil Energy.....Recoil Vel.
.444Mar240gr@2400fps...7.5lbs............23.3ftlb............14.2fps
.450Mar350gr@2000fps...7.0................37.2................18.2
.45-70 [email protected]
.45-70 [email protected]

.44RMag240gr@1760fps...7.5................11.2................9.8

.30-06 [email protected]
.300WMgr180@2960fps...8.5................25.9................14.0


I swear the .450Marlin does not feel like it has that much recoil...Nor the hot .45-70s...Huh.
Realy,I have had .300WMs that felt much worse...Again,Huh!!...

 

[The Tennessean]

Thank you gents for taking the time to reply. You've all given me some things to think about and ponder.

 

[Hanzerik]

I have two .44 mag lever guns and will eventually pick up a .44 Mag RBH to go with them. The 16" is very short when you are used to normal sized rifle, and makes a very compact woods/packing gun that packs a punch. I have shot mostly light cast loads, but have also shot some stout fullhouse loads with JSP and Hornady XTP bullets. Both my guns are accurate to 100yds which is what I have them sighted in at. With fullhouse Magnum loads the guns will thump your shoulder pretty good, and will also thump whatever is on the receiving end.

Even if I didn't reload, I would choose the .44 Mag over the .444 because of ammo availability. I can reload from mild to wild; light weight bullets in the 180gr range all the way up to 300+ grs. I load 240gr cast bullets over a light load of Unique for plinking, and 200+240gr XTP-HP bullets over stout loads of 2400 for general purpose field/hunting loads. I don't feel the need to go with heavier bullets, but might if I was going for something big like an Elk, moose, or Bear. But for Deer, Antelope, coyotes and such, then a 200/240 gr bullet will do just fine.

The Pumas are very nice guns and are the two that I will never sell. Plus they are pretty, and have strong smooth actions. The only modification I'm going to do, other then what I have done already (Changed out the sights), is to cut down the stock a little on the 16" and add a decent grind to fit recoil pad and sling setup.

 

[mgkdrgn]

Given those two choices, I'd personally go with 44 Mag just because it will be easier to find, I would think, than 444 Marlin. 44 Mag, properly loaded, will take down anything that walks in North America.

That said, properly loaded, 357 Mag in a rifle would probably take down 85% - 90% of anything that walks in North America. IF I already had a handgun in 357 Mag, I'd be sorely tempted to go there with my lever gun as well, just for simplicity sake.

 

[MichaelK]

Post #7 "By the way, if you're interested in making your own high performance loads, you can swage .44 caliber bullets out of empty 40S&W cases."

Please explain a bit more about this.

You can buy bullet swaging dies from companies like www.ch4d.com. They have standard 7/8" threads and screw into a RockChucker style compound linkage press just like reloading dies. I made this .430" hollowpoint with .40 cases with a 175 grain .40 caliber bullet cast in pure lead for the core. You simply drop a cast core into an ANNEALED .40 case, then run it through the bullet forming die. I've also made .357 bullets from 380 auto cases, .40 caliber from 9mm cases, and .224 out of rimfire cases. Commercial Sierra hollowpoint on the far right for comparison.

 

[MrPink]

I think you'd be fine with a 44 mag. Plenty of round for what you are looking to do. As others have noted, even in a carbine, you'll get more 44 rounds than if you go 30-30 or 45-70.

Besides Rossi, Chiappa (Italy) and Winchester (Miroku) are making 92's. Winchester's may not be "original" but it does include a tang safety and rebounding hammer.

Another thought would be a Colt Lightening repro (Uberti). I shoot this pump faster than any lever.

 

[Wanta B]

Mmmm...swaging...

NEVER throw out worn out brass! Swage it and give it one last run!

I've done thousands of 5.56 and .243 out of .22LR casings I have sweeped up over the years.

MichaelK---VERY nice work and thank you for posting those pics. Great example for others to see and reminded me to do up some more when I get back home.

 

[Cosmoline]

Unless you're actually hunting big game or having to defend against it, there's limited utility in the extra lbs of a .444 , .45-70 or other big boomer. A .44 Mag out of a levergun is ample. Plus the package is smaller, the cycling rate is faster and reloads use less powder.

The .444 strikes me as a fine choice if you already have a lot of .44 hardcasts or XTP's and want to kick it up a notch.