Levergun barrel heating

[Z_Infidel]

I have read many threads on this and other forums regarding loss of accuracy with lever action rifles as the barrel heats up, usually mentioning 3-4 shots. Can anyone tell me whether octagonal barrels are the same as round barrels in this regard, or are they any less likely to lose accuracy? I like my 1894C and it is pretty accurate out to about 60-70 yards, but I'm kicking around the idea of a Cowboy model with the longer octagon barrel.

Also, can anyone give a comparison of the .44 Mag Cowboy and .357 Mag as far as accuracy, performance, etc... ?

 

[115grfmj]

I'm not really sure about the heating bit....

With any rifle poa WILL change as the barrel heats up. I have the 1894c also
and sometime go thru 200 rds in a 1/2 hour with no accuracy loss.

 

[Father Knows Best]

as 115grfmj said, ANY rifle will have POI change as the barrel heats up. I have no reason to believe that lever guns are any more or less susceptible to it. Generally speaking, though, lever guns are not necessarily the most accurate type of rifles, for several reasons. If you want a very precise, sub-MOA rifle, get yourself a good bolt action, bed the action and free float a top quality barrel. If you want a light, handy, reliable repeater, get a lever action.

The .357 and .44 magnum lever guns are both excellent guns within their limits. They launch much heavier bullets than true rifle calibers, at substantially lower velocities. That limits their effective range to around 200-250 yards maximum, which also means that slight shifts in POI are nowhere near as important as it is with a high power rifle you will be shooting at 300, 600 or even 1000 yards. Between these two, the .357 magnum (or maximum) will give somewhat higher velocities and lighter recoil than the .44 mag. I prefer the .44 magnum, myself.

As for a heavy octagonal barrel vs. a lighter round barrel, well, I just don't know. Theoretically, the octagonal barrel should be more accurate. It is stiffer, and so should better resist changes in pressure on the stock, etc. It also has more thermal mass, meaning it will change temp more slowly, which should lessen shot-to-shot inconsistency somewhat. It is also heavier, which translates into less felt recoil (and potentially less of an issue with flinching, faster shot recovery, etc.).

That said, I don't know how much it really matters. I own both octagonal barrel and round barrel lever guns. For the kind of shooting I do (hunting, plinking and cowboy action), I prefer the lighter weight and quicker handling of the round barrel. I suppose if I put them side-by-side on a bench and tested carefully, I might find the octagonal barrel to be slightly more accurate over the long run, but I think the difference is small enough to be insignificant compared to the skill of the guy behind the trigger.

 

[Z_Infidel]

Thanks for the responses.

I do own a very accurate bolt action rifle, and of course you're right -- they shouldn't be compared. And the truth is, I haven't really noticed the problem with POI shifting a great deal as the barrel on my 1894C heats up -- but I've sure seen the problem described by others plenty of times relating to lever guns.

I've just been having some trouble extending my ability to shoot accurately beyond 75 yards or so with the gun using ghost ring sights. Within that range I get very good results and that's the range I normally want to use the gun in, so it's not a huge problem. But I'd like to be able to hit consistently out to about 100 yards and I've been practicing toward that end. I like the 1894C and the XS sights are very visible in most light conditions, so overall I'm happy with it -- I'm just wondering if the heavier octagonal barrel and longer sight radius of the Cowboy might help me improve my shooting a small amount.

When I want to shoot at 100 yards and beyond I use my bolt gun, as mentioned -- and with good results. But it's a different rifle for a different purpose.

 

[Father Knows Best]

I've used both aperture (peep) and conventional iron sights on my lever guns. In my experience, a large aperture like a ghost ring is great for establishing a quick sight picture at close range (<50 yards). I don't like them at all for longer range because I find them to be imprecise.

The best options for long range shooting with an iron-sighted lever gun are a tang mounted aperture sight like the Marbles No. 2 or Lyman 66, a receiver mounted aperture, or conventional open irons. With the aperture sights, the trick to precision long range shooting is to use a very tiny aperture -- not the big one used in a ghost ring. Both the tang mounted and receiver mounted apertures will give a longer sight radius than a barrel mounted open rear, and that helps accuracy somewhat. A longer barrel also adds sight radius, of course, which can help with precise sight alignment for long range shooting.

Personally, I like a tang mounted aperture for long range work. For close range, I use a barrel mounted flat-top open sight with a large gold bead front. In fact, on my favorite cowboy lever gun, I have both the barrel mounted open (a WDOS - Williams Dovetail Open Sight) and a Marbles No. 2 on the tang. The open sight is adjusted for 30 yards, and the tang sight is adjusted for 100. I usually keep the tang sight folded down, and flip it up as necessary.

 

[Z_Infidel]

FKB, the comments are interesting and helpful.

I did in fact have a Marbles tang-mounted aperture sight on the gun at one time. The reason I switched to the XS ghost-ring setup is because I don't like the standard front sight that comes on the 1894C at all, and I like a post or blade front sight with an aperture or ghost-ring rear. My biggest frustration with the 1894C has been that while I love the handling qualities of the gun, I just don't like the factory front sight at all. I really like the XS ghost ring, but perhaps you are exactly right -- it just isn't precise enough for longer range shooting. It sure gets me on target quickly at shorter ranges though.

I think it would be easier to have a good open sight combination on a lever gun that uses the type of front sight that dovetails right into the barrel instead of the integral ramp type. I see all kinds of replacement front sights that offer highly visible beads -- but finding one that would work with the 1894C's front ramp has been a no-go. That's one advantage that the Cowboy model has over the 1894C IMO -- it can easily be fitted with a large-bead front sight. But maybe the standard sight that it comes with is visible enough, I don't know.

I guess my choices are to stay with the XS ghost ring setup and consider my 1894C a 50-75 yard rifle or try a Cowboy model and see if I can get better precision out to 100+ yards. That would be an expensive experiment.