Levergun in .480 Ruger vs. one in .454

[rc135]

I'm planning on buying a levergun in one of these calibers and need some help.

1) In my Lee's Reloading Manual, it lists .454 bullet weights from 185 grains to 300 grains; whereas the .480 loads listed START at 325 and go up to 400 grains or so. Are these the actual bullet weights generally loaded in these cartridges in the real world?

I ask this because, altho the 454 is a tad narrower bullet, it is longer than the 480, and should, I think, load similar weight bullets.

2) Are there any major diference/advantages/disdvantages between these two cartidges, or are they about the same for general hunting purposes??

3) Any suggestion on manufacturers for these leverguns???

Much obliged, in advance, Gents and Ladies.

"The apple that nature drops at the feet of Newton is but a coy invitation to follow her to the stars." -- E. P. Whipple

"There's nothing living in that direction!" -- Ray Ferrier, "War of the Worlds" (2006 version)

"Egalitarianism is envy, masquerading as philosophy." -- George F. Will

"A woman begins by resisting a man’s advances, and ends by blocking his retreat." -- Oscar Wilde

 

[IlikeSA]

I too have been looking at leverguns in 454, especially the Puma one. Gunblast.com wrote a review for the 480 and the 454, and I like the idea of the 454 because, according to the articles, it can reach 45-70 levels as well as loading 45 Colt. That in itself is impressive to me. I also like the ability to buy the rounds just about anywhere to shoot a gun, as I am not a reloader (yet). Just my 2 cents, and this is merely research, not first hand experience.

Now to buy it and a revolver to complement the rounds for interchangability...say the 460 by Smith (it shoots 454 and 45 Colt).

Oh, to answer your question about manufacturers, Ive only found a Wild West guns of Alaska (454)and Puma/Legacy Arms for the 454 and 480.

 

[Reginhild]

Hopefully we will se a .460 levergun come out.

Then you can shoot .460, .454, and .45 LC out of the same gun.

They could also make a revolver similar to the Taurus "Judge" that shoots .460, .454, .45LC and .410 shotshell - that would be nice!

 

[CZ223]

I think that

Marlin is missing the boat on this. They need to bring out a rifle in either 454 or 460. If they brought it out in 454 it would be able to handle 45 Colt as well. If they bring it out in 460 then it would work with the 454 but the 45 Colt could possibly be too short to function properly. The Rossi n 454/45 Colt is a decent rifle especially in Stainless. Ihave been waitin to run across one of these for the right money. I have been looking at several different revolvers in like chamberings and the most affordable are of course the Ruger. I only wish they would make a super Black Hawk in 460. I don't need a DA Monster Mag, SA would be perfect.

 

[rc135]

454 vs 480

Thanx for the replies.
I'm leaning towards the .454, since it'll allow me to also fire 45 Colt, and also because it appears to be more available than .480 Ruger. You are right that Marlin DOES need to come out with a .500 or .460 levergun -- praps they're afraid that such a carbine'd interfere with their .444/45-70 sales. We'll see...

 

[Camp Cook]

20” LSI Puma M92 454 Casull Data...


Here are a few velocities in fps that I get with some of my different 454 Casull loads in my 20" s/s LSI Puma M92 454 Casull rifle.

240gr XTP-Mag 38grs H110 1) 2258 2) 2327 3) 2316

300gr XTP-Mag 30grs H110 1) 1858 2) 1821

300gr Speer Gold Dot 31grs H110 1) 1890 2) 1897

360gr C/P WLNGC’s 27grs Lil-gun 1) 1848 2) 1846 3) 1828 (awesome)

395gr C/P WLNGC’s 24grs Lil-Gun 1) 1647 2) 1642 3) 1650

This rifle feed everything I had perfectly. It is also an extremely fast light rifle to shoulder.

Just look at the velocities of the 360gr and 395gr bullets this is a little 45-70. As of right now I would totally recommend this rifle.

I went to Beartooth Bullets site and used their ballistics calculator.

Here are some results for the Puma rifle;

240gr = 2820 ft-lbs - 36 TKO - 154 TSP

300gr = 2305 ft-lbs - 36 TKO - 156 TSP

360gr = 2737 ft-lbs - 43 TKO - 185 TSP

395gr = 2388 ft-lbs - 42 TKO - 182 TSP

Foot-Pounds of energy (ft-lbs) eg; 30-06 180gr bullet 2700fps = 2914

Taylor Knock Out Scale (TKO) eg; 30-06 180gr bullet 2700fps = 21

Thornly Stopping Power Scale eg; 30-06 180gr 2700fps = 109

Example of TSP scale
45 Antelope
50 Deer
100 Black Bear (To account for 350- 500 lbs. bear.)
120 Elk, Moose, Kudu, Zebra, Large African Safari Plains Game
150 Lion, Leopard, Grizzly Bear, Brown Bear
250 Hippopotamus , Rhinoceros, Cape Buffalo, Elephant

One change I have done with my rifle is I removed the piece of scrap rear fiber optic sight and replaced it with a stock Marlin 1895GS rear sight that I had laying around.

Now this little beauty shoot awesome and I was totally surprised how accurately it shot everything I feed it now...

One last thing every load I shoot gets a TSP rating for Lion, Leopard, Grizzly & Brown Bear...

 

[taliv]

i have said rossi/puma levergun in .480 ruger and if you search, i'm sure you'll find at least half a dozen posts where i've given my thoughts, and listed chrony results (and comparing it to same ammo from my taurus raging bull 8" in same caliber) however, please note i DOWNLOAD these instead of making hot loads, so consider them very conservative, reasonable estimates and not even average factory velocities, much less near the limit of the cartridge

edit: btw, 16" barrel on the puma

i reload exclusively 400g speer gold dots in this caliber. the only factory ammo i've used is 325g XTPs.

i'm a big fan of the caliber. the way i see it, i'll be happy with it forever, because it's a very nice compromise between umphf and comfortable. whereas most people who buy a 454 casull had to run out and get the 500 s/w and .460sw. and when somebody makes something even more ridiculous than the 500s/w, they'll have to buy it so they can maintain their 'owner of the most ridiculous caliber handcannon' status.

 

[countryrebel]

I would go with the 454,more versatility IMO.

 

[Cthulhu]

I don't think any boats were missed. Neither Marlin or any of the Winchester clones offer a rifle with both the action length and strength to handle the .500S&W or .460, and the makers are keenly aware of this. Even the .480 was deemed too much for the Marlin action. The 1886 action probably could work, but there goes the slim, trim design that makes these rifles popular. It would require a completely new design; I doubt we'll see one from them any time soon. The great strength of these Puma carbines is offering ballistics that exceed the typical pistol cartridge lever actions using factory ammo, in a short, light, and relatively inexpensive package. Wild West Guns developed a rifle capable of taking the big smith rounds, but it is a large rifle with a comparably large price tag.

A lever gun in .460 or .500 really doesn't offer anything to the end user other than interchangable ammuntion with their five-shooters and the availability of factory ammo. True, you could shove in a wide variety of rounds into the chamber, but only one would function other than as a single shot. Dubious value to most outside of a post-apocalyptic disaster scenario.
Once you talk about handloading heavy bullets or maximum loads, neither of the large S&W offerings has any ballistic advantage when compared to the larger capacity cartridges like the .45-70 or .50 Alaskan.
Sure, a .454 can push a 300grn bullet to 1900fps, matching or slightly exceeding a .45-70 SAMMI level load. Unfortunately its small case capacity means that it requires 3 times the pressure to achieve this speed than the larger Govt Round. The .460 works at even higher pressures to produce its high velocity. In the quest for power, say one designed a lever action capable of containing 65000psi (and staying together round after round) there is no benefit of going with a smaller case. If a .45-70 exceeds the .460s ballistics using roughly 1/3rd less pressure, imagine what it could do with another 25K PSI. I doubt any design capable of digesting these pressures would be appreciably lighter or trimmer if chambered in the .460.

 

[taliv]

but only one would function other than as a single shot.

? we are talking about lever guns right?

 

[George Hill]

Waiting for Wild West Guns to do one in .500 and .460.

 

[ArmedBear]

Here's the thing...

There are other readily-available calibers that might work better if all you are considering is the lever gun.

The choice of either .480 or .454 would seem to imply that you want a companion revolver. Is that the case?

It would certainly influence the decision.

 

[MassMark]

C'Mon Marlin!

I agree - Marlin should release a rifle in .460 - would be a really useful rifle, (imagine the possibilities). I had the .450 Marlin Guide Gun and it was a nightmare to shoot, (must be getting soft in my advancing years)....It made a 45-70 look like a pop gun. Was fun, but hard on the shoulder and the knuckles, (small lever)....Yet, it was well-built and shouldered well. I think a .460 Marlin would be a homerun...

 

[Cthulhu]

MassMark, read my earlier post. The .45-70 can trounce the .450 Marlin at the same pressures, and can match it at lower pressures due to its higher case capacity. The factory .450 recoil is mild compared to a Marlin top loads in .45-70. Anything the .460 can do at 65K PSI, the larger rounds at the same pressure can do better. Problem is no lever gun currently available could take that abuse for very long.

Those who want a .460 Leveraction are waiting on Wild West Guns.


"? we are talking about lever guns right?"

Most lever actions are extremely sensitive to OAL. There are a lot of .357 mag marlins that will not feed .38 spls without loading them long, or modifications to the gun. That is a mere .1" of an inch. Now think of a rifle trying to feed (more than once) a .45 Colt, .454 Casull, and .460. Possible, but extremely unlikely.