Levin is at it again: "Our Chilren Pay the Price"

[auschip]

Gotar, yes! I have used this argument many times. When we ALL had toy guns, we all played Cowboys and Indians and pretended to kill each other, we almost all had a gun by the tender age of 12, and there were NO NONE not ONE school shootings till the 80s I can even remember!

There were lots of school shootings in the 80s, they just didn't get as much national media attention.

 

[Robert Hairless]

There were lots of school shootings in the 80s, they just didn't get as much national media attention.

Please document those many school shootings in the 1980s?

Most of the school massacres that I've found documented took place between 1996 and 1998.

 

[ConstitutionCowboy]

Our Children Pay The Price?

They'll pay a much higher price, Senator Levin, if we allow all the gun control you would like. They'll pay the price of not being able to defend their freedom. Wake up and smell the gun smoke, Senator. It's the aroma of freedom.

Guns didn't cause these incidents you mentioned, Senator Levin. Bad behavior caused these incidents.

Woody

"Freedom is good for the individual, good for the human condition, and good for society as well. It is the only way individual accountability can be valid, for a person who is not free to do as he sees fit cannot be blamed... or genuinely rewarded." K.L.Dimond

 

[lamazza]

73.7% of statistics quoted by Democrats are made up on the spot

 

[SoCalShooter]

That is 3,607 per year. Not exactly epidemic proportions

When you compare that number to the number of people in these age ranges specified, you realize that the number is really not so bad. Not great, but its nature's way of thinning out the herd.

 

[Geno]

Take away the guns, they'll use knives. Take away the knives, they'll use sticks. Take away the sticks, they'll use rocks. Take away the rocks, they'll use fists and feet. Take away their fists and their feet, and they use their teeth. Take away their teeth, and you'll end up spoon-feeding them baby food. Guess that was the intent all along...to treat us like babies who can't manage their own lives.

Apparently Levin believes that he can legislate morality! But, he can not legislate morality. The previous AWB did nearly nothing to stem the tide of crime. I have a better idea...let's focus on Congressional crime...such as literally bastardizing our Constitution.

 

[DKSuddeth]

the one and only thing that will reduce, susbstantially, gun violence on the playgrounds and high school lots is armed and sensible parents.

 

[Lbys]

So what's to be done?

I agree with Robert Hairless:

What Levin and his friends seem unable to recognize is that we had better parents and better parenting then.

woodcdi is also spot-on:

Guns didn't cause these incidents you mentioned, Senator Levin. Bad behavior caused these incidents.

The question that has been bothering me of late is this:

What can we do about it?

If we make the following assumptions:

• Collectively, most people had better parents then than they do now
• Current parents are mostly responsible for the bad behavior of their children these days

Then we add this, in some sort of a Libertarian vein:

• The government can't legislate how parents parent

Is there any way to reduce this slide into a morass, a wicked spiral of bad parenting begetting bad behavior begetting bad parenting? Or is our nation, our society, doomed to continue its devolution into one where personal responsibility and accountability are sacrificed on the altar of good feelings, political correctness, gentle or overly-permissive parenting, and state-nannying?

I'm really asking this question. I've done some research, and used to consider myself an optimistic person where the future of our soceity was concerned, but I'm starting to lose a lot of my optimism. Questions for the THR folks:

• What could I read to understand this better?
• Is there hope for our society?
• Do we just live as well-functioning cogs in an otherwise broken machine, making ourselves and our families strong while the building weakens and crumbles around us?
• What does everyone else think?
• Has this topic been done to death ad nauseam?

Just the ramblings of a frustrated American. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[auschip]

Please document those many school shootings in the 1980s?

Most of the school massacres that I've found documented took place between 1996 and 1998.

Stamps High School, Stamps, Arkansas Monday, January 7, 1980

Langdon Elementary School, Washington, D.C. Friday, February 1, 1980 (labeled an accident)

Eastern High School, Washington, D.C. Thursday, March 13, 1980

Lincoln Junior High School, Washington, D.C. Tuesday, April 29, 1980

Spingarn High School, Washington, D.C. Wednesday, September 10, 1980

Valley High School, Las Vegas, Nevada Friday, March 19, 1982

Garland County Community College, Hot Springs, Arkansas Tuesday, April 6, 1982

Parkway South Junior High School, St. Louis, Missouri Thursday, January 20, 1983

Brentwood East Junior High School, New York City, New York Monday, May 16, 1983

Crawfordsville High School, Crawfordsville, Indiana Friday, December 2, 1983


Father Duenas Memorial (High) School, Mangilao, Guam Wednesday, January 14, 1984


Forty-ninth Street Elementary School, Los Angeles, California Friday, February 24, 1984

Richland High School, North Richland Hills, Texas Friday, September 28, 1984 (alumni not student)

California State University - Fullerton, Fullerton, California Saturday, October 13, 1984

Goddard Junior High School, Goddard, Kansas Monday, January 21, 1985


Langham Creek High School, Cypress, Texas Friday, September 20, 1985

Spanaway Junior High School, Spanaway, Washington Tuesday, November 26, 1985

Portland Junior High School, Portland, Connecticut Tuesday, December 10, 1985

Pine Forest Senior High School, Fayetteville, North Carolina Friday, May 6, 1986 (hostage situation by adults)

Fergus High School, Lewistown, Montana Thursday, December 4, 1986

Cokeville Elementary School, Cokeville, Wyoming Monday, May 16, 1986

DeKalb High School, DeKalb, Missouri Monday, March 2, 1987

Pinellas Park High School, Pinellas Park, Florida Thursday, February 11, 1988

Hubbard Woods Elementary School, Winnetka, Illinois Friday, May 20, 1988 (arson and shooting)

Mascotte Elementary School, Mascotte, Florida Monday, October 3, 1988

Atlantic Shores Christian (High) School, Virginia Beach, Virginia Friday, December 16, 1988

Cleveland Elementary School, Stockton, California (adult shooter)

I got tired, but there are more.

 

[ConstitutionCowboy]

Lbys

This will eventually self correct. Take care of you and yours, make wise choices at the ballot box, and surrender no freedom. All you do along those lines, along with the actions of all the other like-minded of us, will cause the correction. Holding our freedoms may cost some blood, but holding them is essential. Just be prepared, know what it may cost, and live your life knowing you have command of your part, and a say in where this country is headed.

Suppose it hits the fan. If you survive the first blast, you'll know what to do when all the emotion has settled, and a day or two latter you logically come to the same conclusion about what to do you as what you felt like you should do when you were first down wind. Be prepared to survive the first blast. Have the reserves to take the logical corrective action thereafter.

Woody

You all need to remember where the real middle is. It is the Constitution. The Constitution is the biggest compromise - the best compromise - ever written. It is where distribution of power and security of the common good meets with the protection of rights, freedom, and personal sovereignty. B.E.Wood

 

[ConstitutionCowboy]

That's quite a list, Auschip. It would be interesting to know how each incident ended, and if there were any armed law abiding citizens anywhere near that could have intervened and put a stop to any of them.

Woody

"Knowing the past, I'll not surrender any arms and march less prepared into the future." B.E.Wood

 

[Ratzinger_p38]

Guys, Ive asked myself what happened between 1960 and now that caused all this to start. Please dont blame it all on liberals, Democrats, or other leftists as we know there are reasons that perhaps none of us could control.

What do you guys think caused all this? I an early member of 'Generation Y' born into the Cold War so I dont know any other world.

 

[SteveS]

Levin puts these kinds of diatribes into the Congressional Record on a semi-regular basis. However, he never actually introduces any bills about it.

True, but he will co-sponsor (or sign on to) most of the anti-gun bills and will consistently vote anti-gun.

 

[illspirit]

Notice two out of three "victims" in his anecdotes are suicides. How exactly are self-inflicted wounds considered violence? And how are they victims when they did it to themselves?

Is this the best he can come up with as a reason to take everyone else's gun away? Even if guns didn't exist both suicides (and the homicide for that matter) could have easily been done with some scissors from the art room or something.

 

[gotarheels03]

I agree, suicides should NOT be counted in gun violence stats.

If you're set on taking your own life and a firearm is the means then so be it. Its not like you wouldn't do it if no firearm was avaliable.

 

[Robert Hairless]

auschip, you found many more than I did. Thanks.

 

[bg]

None of this is "gun violence". It's human to human violence. The "gun"
holds no grudges. It is simply a tool and does the job it was intended
for very well which is to expel a bullet. It couldn't care less where
it goes as a weapon has NO CONSCIENCE, NO FEELING, NO NOTHING.

Levin and those like him are trying to sell nothing more than scare tactics.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

I think the main reason people think that school shootings were rare in the 1980's is simply because of the way news was reported in the 80's. CNN was very new at the time, and not everyone had it. Fox News didnt even start til the late 80s if I am remembering correctly.

24 Hour news services are a problem in my opinion. They have a lot of time to fill, so anything remotely newsworthy gets talked about incessantly.

In the 80's, a school shooting would have been mentioned on the local news, but probably not the national evening news. Today, they get talked about for months after they occur. I think the same thing happens with child abductions/molestation/murders also.

 

[ConstitutionCowboy]

I hope they keep it up, Lone Gunman. Sooner or later, people will come to the conclusion that the only way to stop this is to be armed and shoot back.

Woody

"I swear to protect the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, but I am not trigger-happy. I am merely prepared and determined in its defense. It's a comfortable place to be. I don't suffer doubt." B.E.Wood

 

[Sheldon J]

God I am ashamed to say

that he is my rep, and we have not been able to get rid of the POS and Stabmenow is right up there with him. What puzzles me is how a pro 2A state like Mi can re elect him time after time, despite our best efforts to dump the bum.