Liberals are everywhere these days (learning the truth about shooting)

[Honey and Venom]

So, I've been hiding in two closets long enough.

I'm a gun loving liberal, and I'm not alone.

I've grown more outgoing about my opposition to attempts to ban or neuter guns lately and find that my feelings are increasingly common. I worry a lot more about telling my shooting friends that I vote in Democratic primaries, than telling other liberals about my "assault weapon." uhoh:Yeah, sorry about that one, we were WAY out of line there.)

Gun ownership is growing rapidly, and if you think about who didn't have guns before, but are buying them now, it would largely be us.

We have some crazy ideas about the role of government, and social issues, I get that, but it isn't because we're (all) allergic to thinking.

We're increasingly hunters, marksmen, gun store customers, and defenders of our families. We Google for information and find forums and other gun websites. We also vote.

Many of us are new, learning, and (really!) forming opinions that diverge from the party line. We don't want idiotic, ineffectual gun laws that only make it safer for criminals to terrorize the law abiding public. Please, take the time to teach the rest of us you meet.

When we learn about the joy that collecting or marksmanship provides, the tremendous investment required, the importance of hunting for wildlife conservation and management, we care, and our minds are changed.

When we get called names, told we're all idiots, or cursed at, the gun lobby looks like the kind of big scary armed threat that inspires knee-jerk nonsense gun policy that nobody benefits from.

No, it shouldn't be your responsibility to be patient with is, but it does make a huge difference. Be stewards of a cause when you can. We vote, and we're starting to care about something very dear to you, show us instead of insulting us and we could see the uninformed anti-gun movement dwindle into insignificance.

 

[ku4hx]

So what you're saying is only the liberal power brokers have an anti-gun agenda?

As to name calling, that seldom works on either side of any position.

"Tremendous investment"? Have you checked out a bass boat, motor and trailer? Or for that matter golf and owning a sail boat or any boat for that matter. The first motorcycle I owned cost me more than my entire shooting hobby. Shooting is cheap.

"Patience is a virtue" and should be practiced by all people generally.

I read your post several times and I'm just a little perplexed about what your purpose is. Are you seeking understanding? Tolerance? The right to live your lawful life without being ridiculed and haunted? My guess is liberals and conservatives are pretty much the same there. The difference for me is I believe I can lead my own life and make my own decisions. I don't need an overlord keeping me on the straight and narrow. Maybe you do ... dunno.

 

[USAF_Vet]

I'm a right leaning Libertarian.
I've seen and understand much of what you say in your post. However, I'll touch on a few pertinent points.

Please, take the time to teach the rest of us you meet.

I've tried that. Virtually every Liberal I've met, many of whom are family, are quite solidly concreted in their ignorance and don't want to learn. They are convinced they know everything and anything and no right wing extremist Tea bagger is going to change their minds. This is the attitude and mindset I get because right out of the gate, they view me as an enemy, even though many of our views match. Conservative gun owners have a very difficult time educating died in the wool liberals. This really is more of a task for educated pro Second Amendment Liberals like yourself.

I can't and won't speak for anyone but myself, but most Liberals I have met are in dire need of a cranial proctologist. Quite a few Conservatives are, too, but that's beside the point. You claim you're not allergic to thinking, but you are a minority in your social field.

It's hard being patient with such petulance, and I am aware that not all Liberals act in such a way, but a great many do, and I'm afraid you're going to be guilty by association.

When we get called names, told we're all idiots, or cursed at

Sorry, but mudslinging and name calling goes both ways. It's often much more vitriolic coming from the "tolerant" left, who then turn around and play the victim. It's not name calling that inspires knee jerk reactions, it ignorant fear driven politics that the non-thinking Liberals support because their masters tell them to.

But, there is hope. This is The High Road. It's not arfcom where you get berated for the slightest perceived weakness. Liberals are welcome here, provided they are polite, willing to learn, and understand the mission here is the advancement and protection of the Second Amendment.

Welcome to THR.

 

[DeepSouth]

Sounds to me like you guys might need to start a civil war of sorts, rather than essentially asking us to try harder to win more of you over.

seems much more likely to work if nothing else.

 

[Pilot]

The problem with "liberal", or "progressive" gun owners is that they vote Democrat, and that party's official and unofficial agenda is to disarm law abiding citizens and leave the criminals alone. Check the current Presidential candidates, and their views on gun confiscation.

 

[NINEX19]

The problem with "liberal", or "progressive" gun owners is that they vote Democrat, and that party's official and unofficial agenda is to disarm law abiding citizens and leave the criminals alone. Check the current Presidential candidates, and their views on gun confiscation.

BINGO!

I do not understand how you can disagree with your party on one stance (a major one), and agree with them on wanting to squash the rest of the Constitutional amendments and Bill of Rights. Once one part of your rights are gone, the rest will follow faster and faster. If the 2nd amendment gets more restricted or repealed, the 1st, 4th, 5th, etc., will soon follow. The grip has already tightened in some states. All rights are pretty much intertwined.

Then you have the democratic stance on social issues, which is also used as a springboard.

I have known at work and talked to the exact type of person you are describing yourself. I just stand in amazement of the pro gun stance they take and then turn around and vote for the democratic party every single time in every single race. :banghead:

I know this might not be the response you were expecting, but how do you want me to respond when I see that you are enabling the problem (voting Democrat) and trying to take away my freedoms. Actions speak louder than words.

 

[hso]

Please, take the time to teach the rest of us you meet.

When we learn about the joy that collecting or marksmanship provides, the tremendous investment required, the importance of hunting for wildlife conservation and management, we care, and our minds are changed.

When we get called names, told we're all idiots, or cursed at, the gun lobby looks like the kind of big scary armed threat that inspires knee-jerk nonsense gun policy that nobody benefits from.

No, it shouldn't be your responsibility to be patient with is, but it does make a huge difference. Be stewards of a cause when you can. We vote, and we're starting to care about something very dear to you, show us instead of insulting us and we could see the uninformed anti-gun movement dwindle into insignificance.

Make no mistake that there are dedicated Antis out there that will use any tragedy and any excuse to deceave the public into supporting laws only intended to strip the law abiding of firearms, but the mission for THR is to show people the truth in spite of the propaganda put forth by the dedicated Anti movement.

Our mission for THR is to show the public that we're not the monsters the Antis paint us and to use civil rational discussion to invite more people into our community. We should make every effort here and in real life to make that effort as individuals here, in real life and as a community.

Some members may shortsightedly use this as an excuse to bitterly criticize people who don't support RKBA in their way and squander this opportunity to draw more people like you into our house, but know they've lost sight of the opportunity to share and educate after years of being bludgeoned by Antis with lies you're recognizing as such.

I'd appreciate all members providing any encouragement we can give you and your friends, and the other members and lurkers that are like you, that we are eager to help inform and educate and include people that don't understand our community.

Thank you for speaking up and reminding all of us there are some simple things we can do to help secure the RKBA for ALL of us!

 

[Yo Mama]

Honey and Venom, thanks for joining and expressing where you are coming from. To keep it concise and to the point, this is where liberalism ends up on gun rights: http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...-clinton-australia-gun-ban-worth-looking-u-s/

 

[jerkface11]

We take liberals to the range, teach them to shoot, they even get concealed carry permits, and semi automatic handguns!! Then they vote for Hillary anyway because they aren't "single issue voters" which really means this isn't an issue they care about.

 

[NINEX19]

I'm a gun loving liberal

We have some crazy ideas about the role of government, and social issues, I get that, but it isn't because we're (all) allergic to thinking.

OK, so you made these statements. What is keeping you a "liberal"? There is obviously another issue(s) that you feel is greater than the RKBA and has a higher rank than what you feel are crazy ideas about gov. and social issues. I think I have an idea, but it would not be gun related so we can not delve into that here. Only to say again, actions speak louder than words, a vote for one stance is a vote for all stances when it comes to politics. We all have to balance that out in our own minds with our own world view. Which issues are most important to you. I would be bold enough to say that obviously at least the 2nd amendment is not as important to you as .... no matter what you say.

 

[Radagast]

It doesn't matter if the aren't single issue voters. Think long term. Clinton is 67. Sanders is 74. They are the last remnants of the 60s generation. The candidates for 2020 will be from a new generation. The political Zeitgeist will change if we change the mood of the people. That includes liberals. The next generation of left wing candidates will tack with the political wind, if we can make it blow, just a RINOs on the right already do.

Or we can cast anathemas on those who aren't pure and be taken apart piecemeal.
NSFW LANGUAGE
https://www.youtube.com/embed/iS-0Az7dgRY
/NSFW LANGUAGE

 

[SuperNaut]

Welcome.

You aren't alone, the dirty secret that Fauxgressives don't want known, is that 30%+ of self-identified Liberals are gun owners. Those 300 Million guns in the US aren't owned solely by Conservatives.

Donate to the NRA-ILA and the SAF, speak calmly and with data to your friends, learn about the racist history of gun control, lead by example.

 

[jerkface11]

And don't vote for antigun politicians or none of the above will matter.

 

[MachIVshooter]

The problem with "liberal", or "progressive" gun owners is that they vote Democrat, and that party's official and unofficial agenda is to disarm law abiding citizens and leave the criminals alone.

That's pretty much it.

If one is legitimately pro-2A, you really have to be a single issue voter.

I think you'll find the majority of us here, and an increasing number of "conservatives" nation wide, are fairly socially liberal whilst being fiscally conservative and favoring smaller government. Libertarian is the correct affiliation for many of us, but when election time comes, we are forced to choose between two people we don't like, belonging to two political groups we don't like. One of these perpetually threatens our most sacred right, though, making the choice pretty easy. Most of us would sooner punch people like Mitt Romney in the mouth than have them as dinner guests in our homes, but we don't have to like the guy to realize that we have a much better chance of keeping our guns legal and our earnings in our bank accounts with him in office than with the other guy. Same goes for congress critters.

Having said that, even if guns weren't a deciding factor, the hard swing toward socialism of the democratic party over the last couple of decades is anathema to the beliefs of most of us who choose to be gun owners. Sure, there are some who just like guns, but for the majority, it's also a deeper issue of liberty that causes us to possess these things which are our last line of defense against tyranny. The current socialist-I mean Democrat-paradigm is one of making people dependent on a large, all-powerful federal government. This is why so much capital was expended on ramming obamacare through. Socialized medical care is the bedrock of the quixotic communist nirvana your party intends to create. The expansion of the welfare state is another primary pillar.

If the machine were to grow to the desired size, the dependence of citizens on government to reach such extremes as intended, being able to keep arms wouldn't much matter. It would be tantamount to a single prison inmate getting hold of a gun in a penitentiary where not only do non of the other inmates join him in opposing the guards, but where even if he fights his way out, escape from the prison simply lands him in another.

 

[danez71]

So, I've been hiding in two closets long enough.

I'm a gun loving liberal, and I'm not alone.

I've grown more outgoing about my opposition to attempts to ban or neuter guns lately and find that my feelings are increasingly common. I worry a lot more about telling my shooting friends that I vote in Democratic primaries, than telling other liberals about my "assault weapon." uhoh:Yeah, sorry about that one, we were WAY out of line there.)

Gun ownership is growing rapidly, and if you think about who didn't have guns before, but are buying them now, it would largely be us.

We have some crazy ideas about the role of government, and social issues, I get that, but it isn't because we're (all) allergic to thinking.

We're increasingly hunters, marksmen, gun store customers, and defenders of our families. We Google for information and find forums and other gun websites. We also vote.

Many of us are new, learning, and (really!) forming opinions that diverge from the party line. We don't want idiotic, ineffectual gun laws that only make it safer for criminals to terrorize the law abiding public. Please, take the time to teach the rest of us you meet.

When we learn about the joy that collecting or marksmanship provides, the tremendous investment required, the importance of hunting for wildlife conservation and management, we care, and our minds are changed.

When we get called names, told we're all idiots, or cursed at, the gun lobby looks like the kind of big scary armed threat that inspires knee-jerk nonsense gun policy that nobody benefits from.

No, it shouldn't be your responsibility to be patient with is, but it does make a huge difference. Be stewards of a cause when you can. We vote, and we're starting to care about something very dear to you, show us instead of insulting us and we could see the uninformed anti-gun movement dwindle into insignificance.

lol....I think I want to give you a hug. Welcome to THR.

Hopefully your other post/thread gave you a sense that we are law abiding people that want to help.

You are right, name calling doesn't work and can get you banned on this site. This is an excellent run forum... a bit on the tight side... but that's what keeps it civil, focused, and on track.

I disagree a little with your statement that its not our responsibility to be patient with you' for a couple reasons. We should all be treating others like we want to be treated and its in our best interest to convert the fence sitters to the pro 2A side.


You will no doubt see posts and members that seem extreme. Keep an open mind and follow the logic.

You will also see some posts that are very much portraying an uncompromising stance. This is the result of having our Rights restricted every time we showed good faith in negotiating. Our 2A Rights have been slowly eroded over decades. A death by a thousand cuts.

We have only re-gained some of our 2A Rights back through court action... not because a politician negotiated in good faith. Think about that....for ex. the Supreme Court has ruled in Heller and McDonald that the govt in Chicago and D.C were in violation of the Constitution for decadeS.

If those politicians are willing to do that to one Right, they are willing to do it to any Right as long as it suits them. That's an Oligarchy; not a Democracy.



Anyways.... again, welcome the THR. I hope you stay and be active.


I also want to say that the post hso made reflects my sentiment as well.

 

[Trent]

So, I've been hiding in two closets long enough.

I'm a gun loving liberal, and I'm not alone.

Now you have me curious, what's the other closet?

Your opening line reminds me of a couple of self-described liberals I've met over the years who have changed their minds on gun rights. One is a man who I met close to a decade ago. We became good friends and eventually he told me he was gay (I suspected but never confronted him on it; which was funny, as I'm a bit oblivious as he made no attempts to conceal his preferences to the world and everyone else knew).

Anyway, he unexpectedly signed up for a concealed carry course I was running a couple years ago. He drove down 3 hours from Chicago and stayed the weekend to go through the 16 hours of training. He'd never held a gun before in his life, and was quite nervous, but a good student. He listened and applied what he was told, and by the end of the weekend was quite a good marksman, outshooting several other good ol' boy types on his qualification (who didn't listen or learn as well.)

Due to many other social issues that are important to him you would never see him vote on the Republican side of the aisle - nor would I pressure him to do so because the conservative side is "anti-everything he loves."

However, he's firmly changed his mind on handgun ownership and gun rights. For a gay man from Chicago who lived a good part of his life in New York and SF- all cities where guns were taboo for his entire life - all it took was understanding (and 16 hours of training) to show him guns are nothing more than tools, which can be used to preserve life. He knows they can be handled and used safely, that they won't jump up off the table and randomly start shooting people on their own, and once he held one he realized that it was the person behind the trigger that makes the conscious decisions to use the tool for good or evil.

Will I ever convince him to become a die hard conservative? No! Nor would I want to even attempt it. I respect his world view and his opinions enough to know better and it is not my place to try to change someone's fundamental beliefs.

No one who has seen my collection or stack of instructor credentials could argue that I'm a die hard gun owner; I even owned a gun shop at one point. But that also doesn't mean I'm a single issue voter. The conservative side of the aisle says and does plenty of things that I find offensive or repulsive (or just outright ridiculous).

The sooner we all learn to take the politics out of the equation the sooner we can all unite. We've seriously got to set our differences aside and work together on the single issue.

The establishment has MADE this a political issue and divided the American population down some arbitrary blue/red left/right line when it is NOT at it's core a political issue. This is a human right we are talking about - the right to defend ourselves and our country, to protect our way of life (individually or collectively).

The only way the anti-gun movement has gained so much traction is we have *allowed* this to become a political issue.

Again, it is not. It is a human rights issue that transcends political party or affiliation.

 

[Ironicaintit]

I think if you are a pro-gun liberal; you may just be a libertarian!

 

[2ifbyC]

The RKBA is my number one issue. For other Americans, it may be immigration, world peace, the economy, education, climate change, gay rights, the right to choose, etc. Ironically RKBA is the only issue mentioned that is protected by the Constitution. Yet it is continually being attacked and eroded by liberals.

So you’re a gun loving liberal. Sorry, but I find that humorous to the point of being oxymoronic. But what does that mean? Are you a member of the NRA? Do you contribute to gun worthy causes? Do you write your representatives to speak out against more gun control laws?

You joined the THR. It’s a great place to learn. Using a gun is only part of the learning process. Taking action against others who are determined to take your gun away is the other.

 

[ilbob]

I don't know what liberal means these days. It used to mean someone who was in favor of limited government and more individual freedom.

These days it seems mostly about how to increase the size, scope, and power of government and directly limiting individual freedom.

I would not worry all that much about labels. Do the things you enjoy including shooting, hunting, fishing, camping and other things that are not considered "liberal" activities because you enjoy them and don't worry all that much about the politics.

If you want to continue doing some of these activities though, you might want to consider who is supporting your ability to do them and who is directly working against what you want to do.

 

[HammsBeer]

I'm torn in politics. While I want to preserve our 2A rights, I'm disgusted by the rhetoric from the Right against LGBT issues, and equally disgusted by the Left over excessively wasteful welfare programs and a "nanny state" attitude.

In the end, while I align mostly with the Libertarian party, they don't stand a chance against the two behemoths in Washington, so I reluctantly vote for the party that aligns with most of my beliefs, and you vote for the one that follows most of your's. The best thing you can do is contact your Democrat party representatives and tell them you don't agree with them about guns, because they definitely will not listen to anyone from the other side.

 

[R.W.Dale]

The way to send a message to the Democratic Party is the same as the republican one.

You make them lose the one thing in the world that they're concerned about. Elections

After a couple losing cycles they will get religion on RKBA again.

Forget about "social issues" they do not matter as for the past 50 years such decisions have come from the judicial branch through constitutional review with ZERO indication of a justices predisposition on said issues.

If you are voting democratic because you're afraid not to that just makes you their stooge, same for the republicans.

But in order for this message to be received you can't throw your vote away with a fantasy league third party.

 

[Old Dog]

If one is legitimately pro-2A, you really have to be a single issue voter.

This explains how we end up with so many incredibly stupid Republicans holding public office -- while campaigning, they unashamedly pander to gun-owners -- and once elected, they're totally in over their heads. We shouldn't wonder why Congress (and many state legislatures) are so polarized and in such a state of total gridlock.

I grew up in a state (Michigan) which often swayed quite to the liberal side in elections. However, possibly the most stalwart Second Amendment supporter ever in the House was my former representative, the Honorable John Dingell -- a Democrat. All the union members I grew up with (the UAW, of course) and the Democrats in my family were gun-owners, had served in the military, hunted and understood the 2nd Amendment -- yet today probably would be considered left-wing liberal extremists.

The word "liberal" today is so misused and misunderstood that it's virtually meaningless. We have Democrats, and we have Republicans, neither side really understanding what their original party platforms should stand for, only that they should be sworn enemies, engage either only with vitriol and disrespect, never even attempting to work toward consensus with regard to what is best for the people of our country.

And too many here seem to think that the average voter actually bothers to research every candidate's positions before voting. Most people see one or two points made by a candidate, fall in love with them, and vote accordingly, often without ever figuring out the candidate's position on more vital issues. I submit that it's the uneducated electorate that is the root of our problems, not the actual candidates who label themselves "conservative" or "liberal." A good example is how a state such as mine (Washington), which aside from two counties is overwhelmingly "conservative" and gun-owning can keep electing anti-2A folks (Murray, Gregoire, Inslee, et al) to office or letting ridiculous initiatives such as I-594 pass ...

Rather than preserving the status quo (perpetuating a two-party system that has failed) by being single-issue voters, we need to focus on the re-education of the American voter. Regrettably, our public schools have failed -- Civics, American History, Government are not core classes anymore -- so where do we go from here? The same old political ads and the same old arguments, the same old labeling? As Sarah Palin would say, "How's that workin' out for ya?"

 

[Jackal]

If your liberty is important to you, its nearly impossible to be a liberal voter right now, with the current candidates increasing lean towards socialism or even communism....

The 2A isnt just about owning guns, its about maintaining and protecting Liberty.

 

[hso]

If you're a single issue advocate get up off the couch and work with politicians that support that issue passionately. If you don't care enough to put some "sweat equity" into the process you're missing the real chance to make a difference.

 

[Browning]

The term Liberal has a couple different meanings these days.

One is Classical Liberalism which advocates civil liberties and political freedom with representative democracy under the rule of law and emphasizes economic freedom. These days most classical liberals self identify as libertarians to avoid confusion.

http://www.conservapedia.com/Classical_liberal

The other is a statist who call themselves Liberal. They prefer much more governmental regulation, intervention, social engineering and free services to those they feel deserve it.

http://www.diffen.com/difference/Conservative_vs_Liberal

So which one are you?