Liberals are trying to eat my brain

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Ellie

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For whatever reasons - demographics, chance, profession, I don't know - I have a number of friends and acquaitenances who vote Democrat. But now I'm starting to wonder whether it's an imperative to cut half of the country off from friendship, both in order to stay sane and because I find their beliefs to be morally repellant.

I would not hang out with murderers - should I consort with people who believe that coersion is acceptable if it's in the name of "good?" (Never mind that the good they insist upon is debatable).

Case in point, today in a car with 2 liberals, the fact that gas is so expensive is mentioned.

Me: Well, a good portion of that is taxes, you know.

Liberal #1: Really?

Me: Yes. In Europe it's much higher. Social engineering through price controls.

Liberal #1: Well, but they have a better public transportion system.

Me: Yes. However, it's very expensive to build railroad lines, and in this country they tend to be grossly underutilized. The question is, should we coerce people into paying for something that they don't use?

Liberal #2: I don't have a problem with it. It allows people who had to ride the bus 2 or 3 hours to get to work faster.

Me: Great, so perhaps there should be a program to donate to a train system. But is it ok to take my money because it does somebody else good?

Liberal #1: Well, you get to vote.

Me: So, if the majority votes for it, can we put a group of people that we don't like to death?

Liberal #2: Well, that's like a Hitler situation.

Me: I think it's a Hitler situation when somebody puts a gun to my head and demands half of my money. Especially when it's mismanaged, but that's another conversation.

No more conversation for the rest of the trip home. We said our goodbye's tensely. I doubt I'll see these folks again.

I could have handled this better. In retrospect, I see that I am too strident. An example other than muder would have made my point better, for example.

Anybody have thoughts on the matter of coping with the huge moral disconnect inherent in the stratification of contemporary political thought? Or, in other words, how do you deal with people who want to take your money and further want to make YOU feel bad that you don't much care for it?

(Oh sheez, and I didn't even touch upon firearms rights, which is of course another whole can of worms. Basically, would it really be wrong to call these people the enemy and be done with it? Or should I try to use logic? But does logic work on what are tantamount to religious beliefs [religious in the sense that they are based on faith not fact]? My brain is melting).
 
I'm sorry, I don't know what APS is. The "legal and political" section seemed appropriate to me, but I apologize if I was wrong.
 
Hi Ellie,

I believe that APS = Armed Polite Society, which is another web site entirely. I am sure that if you google Armed Polite Society, you will find it. However, since you titled this thread "Liberals are trying to eat my brain", I must ask, are you sure that they are liberals, and not zombies? Or are they one and the same these days? That would explain a lot... :neener: Thanks!!
 
Hmmm . . . seems to me people have political conversations that don't directly relate to firearms on this forum, but perhaps I'm flat wrong.

I don't see much difference between convincing people that one type of coersion is wrong (income tax) and another type of coersion is wrong (gun regulation), but I may be wrong on that also.

In any case, I apologize if I've cluttered the forum with uninteresting subject matter. Time for this tired, frustrated girl to get some rest. Ciao
 
Me: So, if the majority votes for it, can we put a group of people that we don't like to death?

Liberal #2: Well, that's like a Hitler situation.

Me: I think it's a Hitler situation when somebody puts a gun to my head and demands half of my money.

Which is exactly what will happen if you refuse to pay the tax for X social project funding. The IRS will come to your house and demand payment. If you refuse, they will take your possessions. If you try to stop them, they will detain you. If you try to defend yourself, they will kill you.

The IRS is the Gestapo; they just require a little more provocation.
 
Anybody have thoughts on the matter of coping with the huge moral disconnect inherent in the stratification of contemporary political thought? Or, in other words, how do you deal with people who want to take your money and further want to make YOU feel bad that you don't much care for it?

Your very use of the word "moral" makes it abundantly clear you're disconnected from the left extreme. They "got over all that" quite awhile ago. They're "progressives" who've "moved on" from all that old-fashioned mundane stuff.

Personally, I try to avoid hanging out with people who have declared their intention to turn me into a serf.
 
Working with liberals on projects ended up costing me money.
They often failed to live up to their end of the bargain. Lots of creative excuses and poor/no performance.

So, I gave up working and (usually) socializing with them.

Most of my friends now are shooters and as conservative as I am, or more so. The few who aren't conservative are libertarians. Works a lot better for me.
 
Basically, would it really be wrong to call these people the enemy and be done with it?

That's a conclusion many people I know have reached.

Every morning when I wake up, I have to remind myself to try to not do that, for the sake of the Republic.

There's a quote somewhere that I can't find to the effect that "When people stop talking, they reach for their swords."

It is very, very difficult to not classify people whose preferred policies would disarm you and take your stuff as the enemy. The only reason not to seems to be that most of them do this in folly and ignorance, as opposed to sinister motives.

There are some, however, who do this with full knowledge and "malice aforesight", and these guys I have no problem classifying as enemies.


Personally, I think your approach of making them think, rather than letting them blithely wallow in their delusions is the right approach. Gentle confrontation can plant seeds.
 
But now I'm starting to wonder whether it's an imperative to cut half of the country off from friendship, both in order to stay sane and because I find their beliefs to be morally repellant.
Maybe I'm wierd, but about 50% of my friends are progun, conservative, pro-constitution gun owners and the other 50% are liberal, antigun sheeple.

I have found that my friendship with my progun conservative shooter friends goes much deeper than my friendship with my liberal sheeple friends. As far as my sheeple friends, they have the right to think what they will and they have the right to be wrong; after all, this is still America (sort of).

I like them as people, but I absolutely loathe the things they believe in. I guess it is similar to what church people say - "Hate the sin, not the sinner."

If the SHTF, I'll go to war with my conservative, progun pro-constitution friends. As far as my sheeple friends who vote for leftist/Democrat/socialist antigun bigots who want to steal my guns from me, I wish them the best of luck. I will not loan them my guns and ammo.

As Dr. Phil loves to say, "When you choose the behavior, you choose the consequences.":D
 
We can all just get along, sure...

so long as the bubble of our current prosperity and relative (if illusory) mantle of liberties prevail.

But, personally, I think the balance is very precarious. The Left is obsessed and once they have a critical mass of power, the current phase of co-existence and politeness will end because they will come for your heart, mind, and guts, make no mistake about it.
 
This is where I get into trouble. I cannot decide who irritates me more, Liberals or the Religious Right. I was not very impressed when the governor of Florida stepped into the Terry Schivo case and tried to over-rule the courts. I was less impressed when the Republican Congress tried to do the same. If ever there was a case of Big Government interfering with a private family situation, that was it.

People need to recognize that the crisis at hand is not liberal vs. conservative. The crisis at hand is that a growing number of people in this country do not respect the right of other people to do things they disagree with. Its coming from both sides and our liberties are getting squeezed out of existence. The only real difference between Democrats and Republicans right now is which liberties they want to take away from us and who they want to discrimate against.
 
I cannot decide who irritates me more, Liberals or the Religious Right.

Personally, it's Liberals that I find more of a danger. I've never had any response from the RR folks more pushy than "TSK TSK, I'll pray for you."

Liberals however, are filled with all the self-righteousness they impute to conservative Christians. They would make me a criminal for owning a gun, homeschooling my children, eating meat, and driving an SUV. And they are never shy about expressing an out and out HOMICIDAL HATRED for those who have a different point of view.

I'd trust almost every christian I've met, with a loaded gun, and my back turned.... I can't say that about the liberals I've met.


--Travis--
 
Sorry. I disagree. The religious right would like nothing better than to make homosexual behavior into a criminal act. I know this, because of what happened when the Texas anti-sodomy laws were tossed. I happen to be straight, but I don't want the government in my bedroom. The idea that the government should be able to kick down my door and arrest me for anything I'm doing in bed with a consenting adult goes so strongly against the principal of liberty and freedom of concience that I can't find words to express how repugnant I find it. There is NO non-religious argument under which discriminating against Gays makes any kind of sense. They pay the same taxes and deserve the same treatment as everyone else. Support Gay marriage. Make them suffer like the rest of us.

The Pro-Life people are equally nuts. First of all, I am personally against abortion on moral grounds with a few exceptions. I do not, however, want the government dictating morality in this clearly difficult and ambiguous area. It is inherently ambiguous, because there is not true consensus on the issue. The government should err on the side of freedom and stay the hell out of it. I do not want the government imposing itself between my wife and her doctor, so I am Pro-Choice.

The Religous Right also comes out strongly against the right to die with dignity. They Terry Schivo fiasco was a great example, but not the only one. I personally don't think I would choose suicide if I were terminally ill, but the government really doesn't have the right to tell me I can't either. Again, this is interference in a personal decision on primarily moral grounds.

Where do you think Blue Laws came from? Most are thinly veiled religious observance regulations. There is no secular purpose served by banning the sale of liquor on Sunday. Again, we have religious people imposing their own morality on society as a whole.

I am against public prayer in public schools, although I have no problem with students having a Bible study in the cafeteria at lunch (as long as the school does not organize or promote it). Public schools are just that: public. School prayer is a formula for creating problems in an multi-ethnic, multi-cultural society. I guarantee that the conservative Christians demanding school prayer would sing a very different tune if asked whether or not Muslim prayer would be appropriate in a Muslim-majority school district.

I am not against religion. I am a fairly conservative Christian who is active in Church. I even worked for my church abroad for three years. Religion is not the problem here. The problem is using political means to drive religious ends, which is something the Constitution was designed to prevent.
 
Personally, it's Liberals that I find more of a danger. I've never had any response from the RR folks more pushy than "TSK TSK, I'll pray for you."

Yep. It's all those nutty Liberals bombing black churches, synagogues, and gynecologist's offices. Not to mention those evil Agnostics molesting the nice Catholic choir boys.

Personally, I feel equally threatened by all. The far Right would make everything not mandated by their religion illegal. "For their own good." :banghead:
 
Liberals -
...they are never shy about expressing an out and out HOMICIDAL HATRED for those who have a different point of view.

Boy, ain't that the truth. I have never vented like I hear them do so about Bush, Cheney, etc., yet they look at me like I'm some kind of knuckle dragger because I don't join in to their hate parties. :eek:
 
Ellie,

Next time you are in the car with the Liberals---give them the easy explanation. 60% of the price of gas is set by OPEC--plain and simple. OPEC is comprised of the following countries:

Algeria, Indonisia, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Libya, Nigeria, Qatar, Saudia Arabia, United Arab Emirates, and Venezuela. NONE of these have any interest in seeing gas prices low for the USA. In fact you might see that prices are headed back up now and as of Nov. 1, they will go higher. Has NOTHING to do with us as to what gas prices are. 10% for refining, 20% taxes, and 10% marketing and distrubition make up the rest. Some people are actually claiming that gas prices are high now---------NOT TRUE. At about $2.15 per gallon today is is historically low. 2005 was $2.28, 1985 was $1.90, 1980 was $2.59.
 
Yep. It's all those nutty Liberals bombing black churches, synagogues, and gynecologist's offices. Not to mention those evil Agnostics molesting the nice Catholic choir boys.

Yeah, sure. Just tally up every last such incident, over the last 50 years in the US and it is NOTHING in comparison to the killings done in Liberal strongholds of DC, NYC, Chicago over the last 3 months.

The recent spate of church arsons was of both black and white churches by teenage punks... No Religious Right there.
Oh, were you referring to this bombing:
http://afroamhistory.about.com/od/16thstreetbaptistchurch/a/16streetbombing.htm
IN 1963? 43 years ago, and the "religious right" factor was..... where?

Abortionist killings by bomb or gun? How many again?
And would you care to CITE any Christian Churches or Ministers, or Catholic Bishops sponsoring or approving of that stuff?

Liberal laws already tax the snot out of me. No escape from that.

Liberals make my local concealed carry laws a real PITA, and if I were dressed in California, or Illinois exactly the same as I normally do , make me a felon.

I would feel safer in Texas as a sodomite, than I would in California as a gun owner.

Liberal advocacy of non enforcement of immigration laws has brought millions of illegal aliens here who use welfare, (illegally) commit crimes, bring in diseases which we haven't seen in generations.

Liberal appeasement attitudes mean that not even the Republican side of our politics is not getting its head in the game and recognizing the danger of world wide Jihad.

We have seen MANY video incidents of campus commies heckling and mau-mauing conservative speakers who are invited, and even physically assaulting them on stage. Would you care to CITE such similar incidents when liberal/socialist/Jihadist speakers are at universities? Do you have even ONE?

"Equally Threatened"?!

You just sound silly.

--Travis--
 
Oh my, lots to think about.

It frightens me that I am surrounded by people who do not see that governments are simply organizations of people, not God-annointed bodies, and that if something is wrong for an individual to do (e.g. theft or coersion), it is wrong for a government to do.

I would prefer to do as geekWitha45 suggests and scatter the seeds of ideas than to cut off half of my community, much as that is a temptation. I wish I felt like I was making some headway with the sowing, though. I'm about all out of rhetorical finesse.

I sorta feel as if I should go to some sort of finishing school for libertarian-minded ladies, where I could learn the fine art of arguing for gun rights and the abolition of the income tax while smiling prettily and serving tea and crumpets. Kidding, but some training in the art of debate would be useful. I just know what I believe and I'm baffled by some of the twisted logic I hear used to defend what seems to me wrong at the most basic level.

The religious right . . . I don't live in a state where they even have a foothold, and I don't see a grave danger of a loss of civil rights from that camp. However, I would feel very differently if I saw some encroachment, even if the group whose rights were being encroached upon were not a group I had an affinity for. However, just now I'd have to agree with Travis Lee that I'd rather be gay in Texas than a gun owner in Kali . . . oh, wait, I am a gun ownder in Kali.

Maybe I should move to Texas? No, not enough hunting, and husband likes to hunt. Idaho? Montana? Wyoming, my friend?

Looks like I'd best get to Cabelas.com and stock up on Thinsulate.
 
Wyoming, to be sure.

I eat lunch every day with a group of budding anthropologists, leftists all. I never bring up politics, but if the subject arises I don't pull any punches. Don't know if I've changed any minds yet, but I've at least provided a counterbalance, and they still eat lunch with me.

They are the enemy, in an abstract sort of way. They want to take my freedom away through force, with the government acting as their proxy. What keeps me civil is that they really do have the best intentions. They really don't understand the consequences. If I thought for one moment that they understood the consequences of the policies they espouse, I wouldn't associate with them. But since they do have good intentions, if I can show them where they're wrong maybe they'll change their minds.
 
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