Liberty & AMSEC reviews from owners

[Tryjo]

I have been reading over the various threads and specs offered up here in these forums. However, I'm still a little bit torn between these two companies. I've had a retailer offer me a Liberty PX50 for $4500, and I have another retailer that can get me an AMSEC RF6528 for $4600; AMSEC BF7240 for $2500. The cost quoted for the Liberty includes in home delivery and setup, while the AMSEC cost does not include this.

As this will be my first time to purchase a "safe" for my weapons/collectables, I wanted to get some feedback from actual owners of both models if possible. I would like to have the "safe" inside my residence, but if I purchase the RF6528, it will have to go in my garage due to its weight (3500lbs & I am responsible for getting it there). The Liberty PX50 or the AMSEC BF models can be placed inside, but I'd have to set the AMSEC myself since it doesn't include delivery either.

The RF6528 is probably overkill for what I need, but I would rather have too much "safe" than not enough. I guess my main question is if the AMSEC is a better enough product over the Liberty model for me to try and place it myself? And, is the AMSEC RF model worth getting over the BF model if I have to place it in my garage since I'm not going to have "high value" items stored inside?

I would appreciate any and all input.

 

[heeler]

I own an Amsec BF66X36 and was seriously considering spending around $5-600 more for the BF72X40...I actually now wish I had because I am out of room in the safes shelf configuration for long guns and have had to put some lesser valued long guns in my older and smaller Amsec Highlander I bought several years ago.
If I were going to buy a Liberty safe it would be the Presidential.
Some of the pro's on the Presidential are:

1. Those patented 4-in-1 flex shelves which gives you four different configurations that suit you.
Most safes are not made with this setup as it is patented.
2. Liberty's super warranty as I have read and been told that it is one of if not the very best in the gun safe industry.
3. The outer body is 7 gauge or if you will 3/16ths.
That's pretty good and only premium gun safes come with this and of course you definitely pay for it.
4. A new and improved locking mechanism that pushes a bunch of 1.5 inch door bolts on all four sides of the safe door.
5. Decent paint if you like gloss,which I do but I really dont care for those dull marble colors they are now offering,but that's me.
6. Lot's of 5/8 of an inch fire rated rock for insulation,which is more than most gun safe makers offer.
7. The price that is being offered is good for a Liberty 50.
8. The safe comes with lighting and a nice full size door storage hanger.
9. American made!!

Cons.

1. Internal hinges that limit the door swing to usually 90 degrees and certainly no more than 100 degrees.
This gave me fits more than once with my old Amsec as it has internal hinges.
2. If the internal hinges ever sag or are damaged your pretty much SOL as it is doubtful this could be repaired satisfactorly.
3. Liberty does not offer an optional inner steel inner liner.
Certain models such as Fort Knox,Heritage,Sturdy,and American Security do offer this.
As was mentioned the price was good for a Liberty 50 but not inline with Amsec,Sturdy,and certain cutomized Fort Knox units.
4. Although Liberty offers a lot of fire wall protection fire rated sheet rock in the Presidential it is not as good as a cast and seamless concrete type of liner the Amsec comes with.
5. That composite door has very little plate steel in it.
I have no idea what the outer skin of the doors thickness is but I do know Liberty puts a 1/4 inch plate in the backing but looking at pictures I am not so sure that plate extends all the way out to the lip of the door where a pry attack is going to take place.
Fort Knox certainly does and I positively know the door face skin is 10 gauge steel and on their safes that compare to the Presidential the backing plate is a robust 3/8th of an inch.
6. Every Presidential I have seen I can stick a fair portion of my index finger into the gap of the doors edge and the door closing side of the jam.
That's inviting a pry attack and the Amsec BF does not have that kind of a gap.
And the Sturdy Safe is even tighter.

All in all I truely like the Presidential and I believe that if the gun safe is placed in a strategic strong point that does not allow or allows very little leverage for a huge pry bar attack then unless the criminal rat that has intruded your domain has real power tools or has unlimited hours to work then he/they probably wont get into the safe.

Amsec BF 7240 Pro's
1. That heavy, beautiful 1/2 inch plate steel door.
Nothing like it with most or any other main stream gun safe makers that I am aware of off hand.
2. Much better fire protection with it's seamless cast Dry-Lite concrete type of material two inchs thick surronding the entire top back and sides and on the 2011 models even the floor.
3.Comes with an inner steel liner which helps on security especially once you look at the door closing side and see how the bolts go behind this liner and again the liner is reinforced with the dry lite concrete.
4. Comes with a good warranty and is built by a true safe company that builds real protection safes used by store retailers,jewelery stores,and industry.
They know how to make a safe work like a safe within the limits of it's design.
5. Very good fit and finish.
I especially like the gloss paint on several I have seen.
6. Interior can be ordered as a huge no lower shelf unit for maximum long gun storage or can be ordered as all long shelves as an executive and this can hold a lot of goods especially if your forte is pistols instead of long guns.
7. Price...I paid 2299.00 for my textured paint BF 66x36 in late 2009 and if you can get a new BF72x40 at the price you quoted,which is damn stunning, then the game is over between the Presidential and Amsec BF because the Amsec has better fire protection and quite possibly burglary protection and will be a full two grand less!!
8. American made!!
Cons.

1. Interior is not as convertible as the Presidential.
2. Inner liner is not as thick as other companies that offer this.
3. Previous models did not come with standard lighting as the Presidential but I am pretty sure the 2011 model BF's do.
4. Although Amsec's warranty is good it does not go as far as Liberty's in taking care of the customer.

Amsec RF6528 Pro's

What can I say,it's the ONLY UL listed TL-30 safe out there and due to the fact that Amsec uses this same safe without the carpeted gun safe interior for serious protection of clients assets they can offer this safe for a stunning low price so to speak compared to most other companies whose upper end gun safes cant even begin to stand in the shadow of the mighty RF.
Just compare the price of a similiar sized Fort Knox Legend against the RF.
2. Superior fire protection that 99.9% of all gun safes made cant even come close to.

Cons.
1. Weight...A lot of homes just cant take this sort of weight and moving this beast should in all practical terms be a one time ordeal.
Some people beat on gun safe purchasers for so called 20% percent protection at 80% of the cost of one of these bona fide safes but for me at least it's the huge differences in weight and last need.
Still though if one came to me as a gift or a very,very low price I would have a hard time saying no.

Hope this helps.
And even though I researched practically every gun safe made for two years before finally buying there are others here who have vastly more knowledge on these things than I.

 

[a1abdj]

Heeler pretty much summed up most of the high points.

AMSEC is not the only one who offers a TL rated gun safe. There's some safe guy that visits certain forums that has TL-30 and TL-30X6 gun safes available. Of course they are nicer than the AMSEC, and cost a bit more.

The price you were quoted on the RF6528 is very low. Somebody either quoted you their cost on accident, or is just a paper pusher who's happy to make a few bucks in order to make a sale.

Of the two, I'd take the RF6528. All other issues aside, it's a real safe. It offers protection that the Liberty couldn't come close to offering from both a fire and burglary standpoint.

 

[Tryjo]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the honest answers. I had initially decided to go with an AMSEC "safe", but it is easy to get persuaded into another brand by a salesman. This is especially true when one has no experience dealing with this type of product. As I stated previously, I will be responsible for transporting the AMSEC "safe" to my residence from the dealer. If I go with the BF, I can place it in my house. But if I go with the RF, I will have to place it in my garage.

With the RF being twice as heavy as the BF model, does anyone have any tips and tricks on moving these things around?

Oh, and the dealer I got these prices from is located in Gulfport, MS; in case you were curious.

 

[heeler]

Tryjo I cant understand why the dealer is not equipped to move the Amsec.
Surely in your region there is a safe and vault company out there who can do this.
I can tell you after watching a true safe and vault company move mine into my home and place it exactly where I wanted it I would not ever even try moving something of this much weight to save $2-400 bucks.
As far as the RF the only people who should be moving that much weight are true safe pro's.

 

[Ala Dan]

Quite honestly I have a [lot less expensive] Liberty RSC (Colonial Series);
and it suits MY needs perfectly. YES, I paid a little extra for the high gloss
[beautiful] paint job; but it protects MY firearms really well, from the small
little hands of my six year old grand-daughter too the "smash and grab
crowd" that roams neighborhoods. I have had this RSC (residential security
container) 'bout five years now; and like I said "it has served me well"~!

Add to that, the fact that I always try too keep someone home that
is trained in the proper use of firearms and self defense tactics. Plus, I have
a "state of the art" alarm system; and plenty of land sharks (although they
don't have Ti teeth, like those used by Navy Seal Team 6).

 

[a1abdj]

Tryjo I cant understand why the dealer is not equipped to move the Amsec.

That's a great question. If the person wanting to sell you the safe can't support what they're selling, I would suggest shopping with somebody who would.

AMSEC used to limit those selling their products to people who could prove they were actually in the safe business, and capable of full product support. They're starting to slip in this area. It's getting harder to compete with those that don't have to carry the insurance, don't have to have the experience and training, or don't have to invest in the equipment to move their product.

I would normally say that a local safe company could be hired to move the safe. I will tell you from experience, that these companies may not want to move a safe sold by their "competition". It's certainly heavy enough that I would not advise you to attempt to move it on your own.

 

[Tryjo]

Tryjo I cant understand why the dealer is not equipped to move the Amsec.

I have contacted several dealers in my immediate area about AMSEC products; immediate being a radius of 90 miles. The first dealer, Merlin Lock & Key, offered me the RF model for $7985 + an additional $655 for freight to my residence. I would then be responsible for unloading and placing the product.

The second dealer I contacted was Discount Gun Safes, and this dealer is the one that is trying to sell me the Liberty PX 50 over the AMSEC. They are offering the PX 50 for $4500 which includes tax and delivery charges.

The third dealer I contacted was Lock Jock, but they have never contacted me back with a quote; its been over a week.

The last dealer I contacted was Dad's Super Pawn. This is the dealer that is offering the BF model for $2599 and the RF model for $4600. I assume that this does not include tax, and I know that it does not include delivery. I inquired about delivery and they informed me that they would help me load the safe at their shop but that was the extent of their delivery options.

I have a budget of about 6K to spend, but I don't want spend more than I have to either. And, as Ala Dan eluded to, the Liberty would probably meet my needs, but I can get a higher quality product for the same amount of money; there's just the transportation issue.

It's rather amusing... I am going to make this purchase, but these dealers don't seem to want to help the customer to make a sale.

 

[a1abdj]

I can tell you right away that your biggest problem is that you're not dealing with any safe companies.

Merlin and Lock Jock seem to be locksmiths, Dad's is a pawn shop, and Discount Gun Safe sounds like somebody operating a website out of Mom's basement (I don't see them on AMSEC's website).

Rolland seems to be about 70 miles away from the others you mentioned, but is a real safe company. I would give them a call.

I will tell you that the list price on that safe is $9,760. I'm going to point my AMSEC rep to this thread, as it is a great example of a conversation we were having the other day regarding their dealer network.

 

[Tryjo]

@a1abdj - Unfortunately, this still leave me in a dilemma. I will call Rolland Monday and get a quote on their AMSEC products. Based on the fact that one dealer quoted me the RF for $7985 (plus $655 freight) and another for $4600 (pickup only), there seems to be a lot of variation in the price. I will report back on what Rolland quotes and their delivery options.

As I previously stated, I've got about a 6K budget for this project and I have to stay within that dollar amount. If this requires me to get the Liberty or one of the AMSECs from Dad's Super Pawn (and I move it the best I can), then that's just what I'll have to do.

On a side note, do you think it would be possible for the RF to be placed inside my residence? I'm on a slab and I can place this safe on an exterior wall that will be supported by the slab and footer, or would it be wise to just place something that large in my garage?

 

[a1abdj]

I have no idea how they could quote you a price of $4,600, as it is below my wholesale cost. That also would not include the shipping to get it to me. AMSEC is trying to get rid of people who are quoting these impossible prices, and all of these websites advertising them should be starting to fade away after the first of next month when AMSEC's new policy goes into action.

With shipping (to a terminal), you should expect to pay somewhere between $6,000 and $7,000 for this safe. I can tell you that there are some other options as well in that price range, that are just plain commercial safes. If you are capable of installing your own interior, that may be an option as well.

A slab floor should support the weight fine if you wanted to place it inside. You always run the risk of concrete cracking over time, but we have safes much heavier than this sitting on a regular concrete pour without any issues. It will take somebody who knows what they're doing to move that kind of weight into a home without destroying your house or the safe.

 

[heeler]

As the consumer I can well understand trying to get the best price whether it's a truck,rifle,or in this case a gun safe.
Frankly I am really stunned that RF can be priced that low unless it's old stock from another dealer or something.
But still the BF7240 at that price would motivate me to find a decent safe mover and get this deal finished before something or someone changes their mind.
You will never get a deal like this ever again.
On the other hand the Liberty dealers price is more than fair due to the fact that the quoted price is the whole thing and set into your home.
And he's more than likely insured and bonded as well and has the equipment invested to do so.
That certainly is worth something right there.
It also makes me realize how much Liberty dealers in Houston are not much on discounts.
So the BF at the going price plus tax and if the negotiated delivery/setup is reasonable it would be the best deal financially and I believe it's a better safe.
But again,the Liberty safe place is really trying to get your business.
Please let us know how all this goes.

 

[Tryjo]

Update

*****Update*****

I called Rolland Safe Company today, and the prices they gave me have been the highest I have received thus far. The safe prices are as follows and does not include tax, freight, delivery and installation.


BF7240 - $5,416.00 (High Gloss Onyx) $4,688.00 (Flat Black Texture)

RF6528 - $8,868.00 (High Gloss Onyx) $7,808.00 (Flat Black Texture)

I called Dad's Super Pawn back today and questioned them about their AMSEC "safe" prices. They assured me that their models are not used or refurbished and that each of their "safes" are new models. Since they do not deliver/install their "safes", I am having them give me a price to have the RF6528 shipped directly to my residence. With their low price, I can hire a company to come move the safe for me once it arrives and still come out cheaper.

The gentleman I spoke with today stated that they have several BF "safes" currently in stock. I am going to drive down there in the next day or two and look at those models in person.

Once I find out more information, I'll report back.

 

[a1abdj]

I'm surprised Rolland was that high. I'd be happy to sell you one for less, and have it shipped to Rolland for delivery.

Of course I'm going to be higher than the pawn shop because I have product knowledge and actually have the connections to get it moved in place for you. That comes at a price.

The freight companies won't be able to deliver it to your home in most cases, as the lift gates on their trucks are usually not heavy duty enough.

I will still warn you to shop from a local safe company. I have a feeling you're going to wish you spent the extra when it comes to finding somebody who will move it for you, as well as service it later on down the road.

I have another retailer that can get me an AMSEC RF6528 for $4600; AMSEC BF7240 for $2500.

BF7240 - $5,416.00 (High Gloss Onyx) $4,688.00 (Flat Black Texture)

RF6528 - $8,868.00 (High Gloss Onyx) $7,808.00 (Flat Black Texture)

I ask this question in all seriousness.

Do you think Rolland is making $2,000 on the BF and $3,200 on the RF above and beyond the pawn shop's price? I'm sitting here looking at my price book, and am still trying to figure out how they quoted you those prices.

 

[heeler]

Well...I will just say this.
The difference between the gloss paint and the textured paint is only $500.00.
On a quick reference I checked just one online safe dealer out of California and they showed the msrp of the textured 7240 BF model at $5060.00 but they have it onsale thru the end of May for $3199.00.
Of course that's before delivery to you and getting a safe and vault company to set it in your home.
Still I know what I could have gotten the BF 7240 for two years ago thru my dealer and it was around $2950.00 for the textured model.
So given two years has past I could easily see the $3199.00 or even a few hundred more than that.
Time to start earnestly searching safe and vault installers and doing some heavy negotiating with dealers.
I wouldn't expect most store front small safe companies to give it to you at cost as they have to eat and pay bills too but what Rolland is charging seems way too high from my recent Amsec BF safe buying experience.
At least give a1abdj a shot at this but remember the Liberty safe dealer had an all inclusive price on that Presidential.
Man oh man now all of this is bringing back how much I agonized over my gun safe buying decision a couple of years ago.

 

[Tryjo]

Update #2.

I've located a safe mover in my area that can install the AMSEC RF safe. He installs safes for Gander Mountain and commercial safes as well, so I don't have any misgivings about him being able to move a 3500lb safe. I've also located a shipping terminal about 10 miles from my house to receive the safe. The kind folks there at the terminal even said that they would help load up the safe when whomever comes to pick it up.

I did call AMSEC today and talked with a Barbra in their sales department. She did tell me that the concrete filler did contain wire and rocks to make it hardened against side attacks. She went on to say that skin on the safe was 12 and 10 gauge outer and inner. I am fairly satisfied with this model, even though the only part of the safe that is TL-30 is the door, but...

I called up Sturdy today and got a price from them on a "safe". A 48" x 24" x 72" (W/D/H) model with 3/16" outer wall + additional 3/16" welded to top, back, and side walls on inside, fire insulation with inner liner, 5/16" door, #3 interior, key in dial mechanical lock was $4446 shipped to my doorstep.

I've read the multitude of threads that have beaten this horse to death, and I'm in no way trying to bring up this issue once again. As heeler stated in his post...

Man oh man now all of this is bringing back how much I agonized over my gun safe buying decision a couple of years ago.

 

[heeler]

I commend you on your choice of the RF as that truely is a real safe for sure.
Are you going to get the safe in textured paint or gloss and what color did you chose?
Wow,what a safe!!

 

[a1abdj]

I did call AMSEC today and talked with a Barbra in their sales department. She did tell me that the concrete filler did contain wire and rocks to make it hardened against side attacks. She went on to say that skin on the safe was 12 and 10 gauge outer and inner. I am fairly satisfied with this model, even though the only part of the safe that is TL-30 is the door, but...

That is mostly true, but not exactly true. Everybody seems to think that you can have a highly rated door attached to any type of body, and it would pass the test. That's not the way it works.

As far as the Sturdy, don't even bother. As much as I think their safes are a decent option for those that want heavier steel than average without the additional cost of fire protection, there is nothing that they make that would come anywhere close to what the RF is.

Many people don't know this, but most modern day vault doors are only 12 gauge stainless steel. I can assure you that the 12 gauge steel only serves as the nice looking "box", and the material that keeps the inside air away from the outside air is a bunch of "concrete, wire, and rocks".

There is a lot of stuff that gun safe manufacturers do that impresses people. The reality is that real safe manufacturers not only do these things every day, but they have done it for years and years. Want more steel? How much do you want? 1/4"? 1/2"? 2"? You can get this all on the commercial side without blinking an eye.

 

[Tryjo]

@a1abdj : It's the old "have one's cake and eat it too" syndrome my friend. It's in our nature to want the latest and greatest, but we have to realize what we want and what we need are more often than not two different things. Of course I'd like to have a TL-30 x 6 which is also torch and explosive resistant; who wouldn't. However, I'm quite positive I don't have the budget to afford such a mammoth safe, and do I really "need" something on that scale.

 

[a1abdj]

If anybody knows, it's me. I can't tell you how many calls we get each day where somebody "needs" a safe, but they don't have any money. People tend to want more than they need, but end up with far less than they should have.

It's always easier to compare apples to apples instead of oranges. If you had a safe with a TL-30 rating, made out of the same steel as most gun safes are, it would have a 1" solid A36 plate body, and a door made of 1" A36 laminated to a 1/2" maganese plate. There are a few exceptions that use high strength alloys, but you don't see many of them.

 

[metakorn]

A little off topic, but which would better serve as a gun safe. A plate steel tl-15 rated safe or a composite tl-30?

 

[Tryjo]

@heeler - I'm probably gonna go with textured granite, black nickle hardware, and the key in dial locking mechanism. I'm going to go tomorrow, Friday, and place my order. If I win the lotto between now and then though, I might just get this safe.

 

[a1abdj]

If I win the lotto between now and then though, I might just get this safe.

It's interesting that they claim it's the only one on the market, when I have been building and selling them for over 3 years now.

If they want to be correct, they should say they are the second gun safe with that rating on the market. Each of mine is custom built for it's new owner, and I can usually get somebody into a TL30X6 for less than the AMSEC's TL-30 so long as we aren't doing anything fancy to it.

which would better serve as a gun safe. A plate steel tl-15 rated safe or a composite tl-30?

From a security standpoint, there wouldn't be much of a difference. Aside from that, one or the other may be better for your particular circumstances.

 

[heeler]

Good deal Tryjo.
I was a hair away from ordering my Amsec with the gloss paint when the reality check of this big steel box is a massive tool shed so to speak for my guns and to a lesser extent other personal things I dont want passed on to unwelcomed hands so I kept the paint price difference and basically used it towards the ugly payment reality of state tax for the purchase and the delivery and installation.
Lastly,good luck on the lottery system as one never knows when it will make friends with you.
It really happens.

 

[Tryjo]

***Update***

I've ordered the RF6528, and I'll post some pictures when it arrives. It should be here in a few weeks. When the dealer placed my order, I was in the room with him. He called AMSEC and asked to speak to Barbra. I could hear her over his phone, and this was the same Barbra that I spoke with the other day when I called. I thought this was rather amusing to say the least.