Breaking into a gun safe - UL testing

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Usually drilling holes into a fireproof safe must be done in a manner specified by the manufacturer, otherwise you get a non-fireproof safe. Best call the maker of your safe to find out where they recommend drilling to install the goldenrod.
 
Thegiff;

C'mon, you don't really expect the pro's to tell people how to drill a safe on an open website, do you?

900F
 
If I may put my .02 worth here. Growing up I knew a lot of guys that were druggies and did B&E for drug money. They would jimmy a window,force a door to get in. Then go thru the house and grab as much stuff as they could carry. In and out 5 min or less. No B&E guy wants to be caught with their hands in the till so to speak as in home owner walks in on them.
Unless you live in a very high end neighborhood your odds of a PROFESSIONAL safe cracker in your home is slim.
I'm not saying you should buy a cheapo safe and that's it. Get something that's well made and heavy. Bolting the safe to the wall or flour is a good idea. I have a safe that's fair sized and weighs in at 400 pounds,no B&E artist is goiing to bother with trying to move it and it's not bolted down. I live on the 2nd floor and it to good sized guys to get it in the house. Also what kind of explanation is our B&E guy gonna come up with if the cops see him moving a large safe on a dolly down the street at whatever tiime in the AM.
I understand you wish to protect your valuables but I think you are over thinking this a bit.
 
Well not really, though I figured there would be some discussion on other methods of securing it or maybe that the general advice would be that it just isn't really necessary given it weighs close to 3000 lb. I've been thinking the easiest way to secure it withoud drilling would be to weld in place a shield around the bottom so that it can't be pried upward and a pallet jack couldn't be slid under it. I had a professional safe company move it in, the guys said they didn't think it needed to be bolted down even if it did have the holes. So I guess what I'm really looking for is a second opinion on that.

I forgot to add, they didn't have a way to get it off the 4 X 4's, so it sits with a 3 1/2" gap under it. I borrowed a pallet jack from work to move it around, it was pretty easy but of course on flat concrete.

Regarding the goldenrod, should I suppose my best bet is to hire a professional and let them drill it? Or forget using a goldenrod and go with a desiccant? Might be cheaper I suppose. Anyway, I'd appreciate any advice.

I had one more thing to add, the reason I bought this one, a used TL-30 X 6, AMSEC, vs. new costco, home depot or walmart locker or RSC, was from reading the various discussions here, mostly by CB900F and a1abdj, so I wanted to thank you both for the advice you post so freely (except for security related stuff, which I understand).
 
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When I got my first big safe it is a C rated unit, with a 1" thick solid steel door & 1/2" solid steel body, I was using a large can of dessicant. Turned into abig hassle for me as it seemed like every week the thing needed another few hours in the toaster oven to dry it out. I eventually bought a paper humidity reader card (which by color on the card will tell you how humid it is in the safe) and after that I broke down & drilled a small hole & installed the goldenrod. Since that time I have aquired several more safes & installed the goldenrod into them as well.
I wouldn't worry about your 3,000 lb safe walking off while you are out, I think you are very well protected as it is right now Giff
 
For most of us casual firearms enthusiasts, living in suburbia with neighbors in close proximity, it's probably money better spent to buy a RSC at Costco and spend a little of the difference on a alarm system.

I keep a couple of Harleys parked in the garage. Burglars probably won't even enter the house....
 
My neighborhood, what I think is a lower middle class area, has had 26 known home break-ins in 6 months, and my neighborhood has about 125 homes total. Lately, this activity has dropped off, the pro crew was caught. The same guys had been caught before, and when released were back in our neighborhood again.

One neighbor a couple streets down was, quite stupidly I would add, cleaning his shotguns with the garage door open, and was seen. No safe, no RSC, no alarm, no protection at all. One of the bad guys found his home phone number and started calling once or twice a day. When he didn't answer, knowing he wasn't there, stole them, and rode away on a bicycle. So happened that that neighbor came home and saw him riding away, tried chasing him down and lost him. Police knew who he was, and didn't have enough "evidence" to bother to get a warrant and search the bad guys trailer.

The same robber was part of a professional crew, not that they can take a 3000lb safe. They had up to 3 guys, they'd case the neighborhood, and had an older white van with some business lettering on it. They lived close by, and I'm sure memorized the vehicles in driveways, and the patterns of these vehicles. I'd seen them more than once, early morning or in the evening, they'd memorize your vehicle, if driver is male or female, etc. as part of casing the neighborhood. Then, ring doorbells and knock on the door, no answer, the guy checks the house out close, and in our case broke a back window to get in since my wife doesn't answer for strangers. When he found she was home (he broke one pane of the double pane window and was working on the second pane), and he took off. Anyway, when one of the guys casing for homes found one, he would call the others, and they'd park their van in the garage and load up everything of value, and turn the whole house over. Maybe 5 or 10 minutes total to do this, in the middle of the day, most people at work and indistinguishable from a legitimate work crew to the casual onlooker.

I'm absolutely sure these guys would walk off with a 1000 lb safe if it were not bolted down, though I also think they wouldn't attempt to break into any safe that were. Also, I think the area or neighborhood has little to do with where a pro crew hits, just about everybody has electronics, guns, cash and jewelry. Pro just means that robbing is how they make their living, it doesn't necessarily imply that any real sophistication is needed.

I've had two attempts that we know of on my home, my wife is a stay-at-home, and was home both times. Not counting the door knocks the pro crew did a couple other times where my wife let them know she was home through the door. They like to hit in mid-day. It was only after the second attempt on our home I was able to convince my sweetie that we really needed a safe.:banghead:
 
Adding this to your overall security plan eliminates a thief's ability to spend any time on site. I purchased my system for less than $400, installed it in 30 minutes, and pay $15 a month to monitor, with no contract. I'm not affiliated with the company, but have been very impressed for the two months I've owned mine.

http://simplisafe.com/
 
Say what you want, you ain't getting into my Sturdy safe with like 7 or 8 gauge steel easily.

Using a torch will touch off the black powder that is stored inside. A sad day for whoever is running the torch. It will also destroy anything of value kept inside the safe, making the exercise pointless.

Using hand tools is going to take a day.

They are positioned in such a way, and bolted down, so that it would be easier to just pull it out through the wall and drag it away. But that would also severely damage the contents.

Anyone with the real skill to open it without damaging the contents isn't risking jail or being shot for the small value of what I own...

I think the average person is fine with a one or more Sturdy, Amsecs, etc. that cost a couple grand each.
 
In addition to a good bolted down safe, alarms and big dogs are good to have. My main purpose for the safe is twofold: keep the youngins safe, not to get shot with my own weapons by a burgler who is still there when I get home. Don't forget insurance. I'm a big fan of Browning and Fort Knoxx safes.
 
I'v heard about sturdy--do you have a picture of it
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You should contact a guy named BTN13. He is a Sturdy expert, and owns one himself. It appears that he's located pretty close to you, so you probably wouldn't need to go too far to see one. He may even be within walking distance. I think you missed him here by about 6 months, as he was banned, even though he bragged on another forum that he opened another account here and makes the occasional post under a different name.

I just searched the forum, and found that your first post also happened to be in a thread about Sturdy safes. You wouldn't happen to know old BTN13 would you?
 
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Worked in a pharmacy long time ago.

Owners insurance said any theft from the safe had to 'show visible signs of entry'. The pic above qualifies, Id think.
 
a1abdj said:
you should contact a guy named btn13. He is a sturdy expert, and owns one himself. It appears that he's located pretty close to you, so you probably wouldn't need to go too far to see one. He may even be within walking distance. I think you missed him here by about 6 months, as he was banned, even though he bragged on another forum that he opened another account here and makes the occasional post under a different name.

I just searched the forum, and found that your first post also happened to be in a thread about sturdy safes. You wouldn't happen to know old btn13 would you?
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do you have a real picture of a stURdy safe
 
I have a Champion, and I know you could cut through it pretty easily. However, anybody who tries better not touch off any of the powder I got stored in there. I'll lose everything in the safe, they'll lose everything!
 
do you have a real picture of a stURdy safe
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I do, but there are several on their website. They are a very simple design, and aren't using anything design wise that hasn't been used multiple times in the past by other manufacturers.

Was there anything in particular that you wanted to see that they won't show you themselves?
 
a1abdj said:
i do, but there are several on their website. They are a very simple design, and aren't using anything design wise that hasn't been used multiple times in the past by other manufacturers.

Was there anything in particular that you wanted to see that they won't show you themselves?
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i want to see a real picture instead of an ad pic. Does it have the extra lining inside, do the walls feel solid, can it be compared to an bf (as far as wall strength).
 
I've been looking for a long time and still have not made a choice as yet but belived i'm ready now. i see that you sell safes are you now selling sturdy and also do you have some used safes--thanks
 
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Shrock said:
I've been researching safes on and off for years. I cut, weld and bend metal for a living and I know I could easily get into most gun "safes" in a few minutes. I can't imagine gathering up all my most valuable things and putting all my eggs in one of these straw baskets.

Anyway budgets vary, but here is my plan and reasoning.

I'm going to get two instead one one huge one. One will be a real safe, TL-30 rated AmSec RF6528. The other will be a decent/respectable. Probably Amsec BF, Zycan, or Sturdy safe.

How ever hard it is to get into anything, getting into two will be harder and take a lot longer.

The most valuable stuff goes into the TL-30 unit. The more commodity stuff goes in the other, AK's, basic .22's, pump shotguns.

After beating up Amsec for a while, I finally got an answer of the metal thickness on the TL-30 rated RF6528. I forget the exact number but is was around 11ga. I did not like that answer. You can't fake UL ratings though. I was told it was filled with a special high security concrete like material with chunks of metal and other secret sauce. I didn't really trust that. I know metal, but nothing about that stuff. (Note, the fill in this model is not at all the same as the fill in the BF series.)

Anyway, for anyone who has researched true high security safes, I found a gem. Here is a video of an actual UL labs TL-30 test taking place. You can see they get the outer skin off pretty fast, with a tool pretty similar to what I would pick. I was amazed at how strong that stuff underneath was though, even against two guys with two handed sledge hammers and well thought out power tools.

Here is the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtbGUbeM860&feature=BFa&list=FLO_x13y4Tw_zsKJWRHIe9BA&lf=mh_lolz
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Who can afford that on a average Joe income like said safe. It's like a $10,000 safe! Coworkers think I am crazy for spending $2,600 on a Sturdy w/ 7 ga. upgrade to the body.

They are like you could of bought a BIG fancy one from Cabelas. And my remark was those are imported and drywall filled and wouldn't take no time to get into with a good fire ax and couple of prybars!:rolleyes:
 
Who can afford that on a average Joe income like said safe. It's like a $10,000 safe!
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You can buy a burglary rated safe, large enough for guns, for half of that. And at only twice the cost of the Sturdy, you're getting many many times the security.

Of course you can't always just slap one of these big safes into a house. Sometimes lightweight safes are a better option.

i want to see a real picture instead of an ad pic. Does it have the extra lining inside, do the walls feel solid, can it be compared to an bf (as far as wall strength).
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Their ad pics are much more clear than the photos I have. I have seen both types of safes in person. The walls are not solid like the AMSEC or the Zykan B rate because they are not backed by anything. They are thicker steel than most other gun safes, but a dual walled composite safe will have a much more solid wall due to the structure.

Think of an empty thin aluminum can that you could easily crush with your hand. Try the same thing with one that is still sealed. That's the difference between a single wall, and a dual walled composite.
 
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While no one will argue with a great $10,000 safe, if you can't afford one, get a regular safe with a home alarm system and maybe a video camera or two. Do NOT hide your video camera. Hell, put it right on top of the safe with a sign that says "Smile, you're on candid camera". Functioning or fake, that might give them pause while the cops show up.
 
Fella's;

Where do some of these outlandish figures come from? I sell safes as a professional locksmith. I can sell a B rated safe that's 6 feet tall, 4 feet wide, and well over 2 feet deep, that's 2340 lbs. of plate steel & concrete for thousands under the ten grand number that's currently being bandied about on this thread. Makes me want to beat my head against the wall.

900F
 
These are the lowest prices I found online. I do not know if the vendors are good & reputable, a local or well know vendor may charge more....i.e. YMMV,
but this is nowhere near the $10K number being tossed around.

Amsec Gunsafe RF6528 TL-30
72x35x29 (Outside dims)
65x28x23.5 (Inside dims)
23.4 CuFt
3,455 lbs
$5,429.00 (delivered but not installed)


AMSEC AMVAULT TL-30 CF6528
72x35x29 (Outside dims)
65x28x20 (Inside dims)
20 CuFt
3,153 lbs
$4571.00

AMSEC AMVAULT TL-30 CE6528
72x35x29 (Outside dims)
65x28x20 (Inside dims)
20 CuFt
3,153 lbs
$4029.00 (delivered but not installed)

This is the same basic safe as the gun safe without the gun interior, and TL-15 instead of TL-30. TL-15 requires 1" thick A36 steel on body & door sides or the equivalent. One inch thick....let that sink in for a little while. The TL-30 Model was about $800 more, and likely overkill IMHO for a gun safe.

To the pros reading this, any idea why the OD's are the same but the ID is smaller on the Amvault vs. the gun safe model? Is this correct?


.
 
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