Light .25 bullets for deer hunting?

[jlacy]

I have a 11 year old daughter that may (if she holds her end up) get to deer hunt next month.
She is very recoil sensetive, she is about 5' and maybe 100lbs.

I have a 257 Roberts she shoots well with medium loads and light bullets. (M77)
I have shot deer with this rifle before, but only with 100 to 120 gr. bullets.
It also preformed well on yotes with the 87 gr seria spitzer at about 3100 fps.
But she says these loads kick to hard.

What do you think about deer with a 75 or 85 gr Barnes X or on of the various 80 to 87 grain sp Spitzers in 25 caliber like the Speer Hot-Cor ?
These would be pushed to 2700 fps or so. Maybe a little faster on the 75 gr X.

Shots will likely be less than 100yds.
From a supported position in a blind, or at the vary least a hasty rest or shoting sticks, on texas whitetale.

Thanks in advance for you input.

 

[dodgestdshift]

I would think that the best place to get answers would be to call the people who make the bullet you are thinking of using. They could probably help you out. I know for a fact that Speer has an email site and address that you can write them.

http://www.speer-bullets.com/

Then click on the "contact us" on the lower bar.

 

[hoghunting]

If you want to use the lighter bullets, stick with the Barnes. It will stay in one piece and will work well on Texas whitetails.

 

[RON in PA]

You want to use a bullet designed for deer hunting and not for varmints. At one time there were some 87 grain bullets for the 250/3000 that people used for deer, but usually 100 grains is the lightest weight for deer. As was suggested check what the bullet manufacturers say. You owe it to the game to use a bullet that will put it down as fast as possible and that means penetration not a bullet that will blow up and create a shallow wound.

 

[uk roe hunter]

bullets

I use a .243 win. I have tried 87 gr hornady spitzers and 105 gr speer spitzers. the 87s are not very good (imo) and deer will run on with them even through the heart. the rifle (a ruger 77) is more sccurate with the bigger bullets.

steve

 

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

If you can afford it, I would suggest buying her a rifle in 6.5 X 55 Swede Mauser. This is a potent cartridge for deer, very accurate and has a mild recoil. Buddy of mine's daughter is about the same size as your daughter. She hunts with a Swede Mauser he converted into a sporter (He's a gunsmith.) She does really well with it and loves having her own rifle.

Dave

 

[Grumulkin]

The Barnes offerings should work fine. In fact, the Barnes manual suggests using a lighter weight Barnes bullet than you would a bullet of another brand. Even their light bullets will hold together.

If you want a very light recoiling deer gun, you could go for a 22-250. After taking a couple of deer with one (as well as one with a 222) using 53 and 70 grain bullets, I have a hard time considering a .25 caliber with 85 grain bullets light for deer. I would also like to point out, that the late Bob Milek considered the 257 Roberts (with the heavier bullets) adequate for elk.

 

[tikkat3]

It depends what species of deer you are shooting. Here in the UK there are different rules betwen Scotland and England - England no deer species under 100gr 0.240" calibre. Scotland, roe and smaller maybe shot with .22 centrefire (I fiorget the minimum bullet weight). Having said that, bullet placement is everything.

I personally would be unhappy shooting a larger sized deer (anything above rose in size) with anything under .25-06 with ballistic tips (100gr). I know smaller bullets will do the job, but what if you are slightly off target...

Just my personal opinion. If we shoot game, it HAS to go down first shot and ideally where it stands. A decent sized bullet is key to this.

 

[uk roe hunter]

bullet wieghts

Hi Tikka 3,
The wieght of the .243 bullet thing.... i am sure that is in scotland in order to shoot reds?

Steve

 

[cabowabo]

Here's my 2 cent

I loaded up an 85 grain Barnes Triple X with 44 gr of im????(look when I get home) out of a tika t3 light .243. My 12yr old son (last year) and my nine year old daughter all 80 lbs have no issues with the recoil. That round has taken 10 deer and 4 yotes and I'm going to use in < 300 lb pigs this year. This combo is goooooood.

A 25.06 with a smaller bullet would be similar.

As far as being off target there is no substitue for good CONTSTANT technique and range time. IMO

Good luck

 

[BigFatKen]

Just down load the powder charge from book with reduced loads and use the 100 gr bullet.

 

[tikkat3]

Hi UK Roe Hunter,

My typo! I meant 100grs for anything larger than Roe (not Rose!!!) in Scotland. The smaller spieces can be shot with .22 centrefire in Scotland, but not England and Wales (yet - new legislation possibly on the way!).

To clear up what I meant, here is the wording from the Home Office guidance to the police:

14.8 (Deer Scotland)
a) For the shooting of deer of any species, a bullet of an expanding type designed to deform in a predictable manner of not less than 100 grains (6.48 grams) with a muzzle velocity of not less than 2,450 feet per second (746.76 metres per second) and a muzzle energy of not less than 1,750 foot pounds (2,373 joules) must be used.
For the shooting of roe deer only, a bullet of an expanding type designed to deform in a predictable manner of not less than 50 grains (3.24 grams) with a muzzle velocity of not less than 2,450 feet per second (746.76 metres per second) and a muzzle energy of not less than 1,000 foot pounds (1,356 joules) may be used.

14.2 (Deer England & Wales)
Section 4(2) of the Deer Act 1991 prohibits the use of certain types of firearm
for the purpose of taking, killing or injuring deer. These are set out in Schedule 2:
Firearms: any smooth-bore gun; any rifle having a calibre of less than .240 inches or a muzzle energy of less than 2,305 joules (1,700 foot pounds); any air gun, air rifle or air pistol.
Ammunition: any cartridge for use in a smooth-bore gun; any bullet for use in a rifle other than a soft-nosed or hollownosed bullet.

 

[GooseGestapo]

Your .257Roberts is an excellent choice for a beginners rifle. I've been shooting and reloading for the Roberts for 25yrs and have had excellent success with the lighter bullets on deer.

In the mid '80's, I was using my Roberts for deer control work on a public airport that due to city ordinances, only State Wildlife personnel were allowed to discharge firearms for such work. I assisted the area Wildlife Tech. (Same agency, different division- I was L.E. division.). A former Agency Director was the inventor of the drug-dart gun known as the "Captur-gun" widely used by research biologist and zoo's world wide. He was a strong proponent of the .222rem cart. and used it extensively for hunting deer, and controlling pest and varmint populations on the Mgt. Areas throughout the State for many years.

However, we had found out the the .243 and .257's were even better using the frangible bullets. We also found out that they perform much like regular big-game bullets at extended ranges where velocities had dropped off significantly.

I have shot whitetail deer with the Hornady 75gr HP, Sierra 75hp, Hornady 87gr SP, 85gr Nosler B.T., and the Sierra 90gr BTHP.

My only mule deer dropped to a Nosler 85gr Ballistic Tip, as I'd gotten a bad lot of 117gr BTSP that I'd loaded and taken on a Montanna Mule deer hunt. I'd taken a much larger quantity of the Nosler 85gr B.T.'s for shooting prararie dogs after the deer was collected (max. load of H414 @3,500fps). Bullet penetrated both shoulders, broke the spine and exited leaving a 3"dia. exit wound. I got similar expansion and performance at similar ranges with 75gr Hornady HP. Range was just under 400yds.

Oddly, I've never recovered a single one of the above bullets from a deer, though I've recovered some 100gr and heavier. But, then most of the deer we were shooting at the airport were 200yds or beyond, and we disposed of them by taking them to the County prison for their use (required by State Law and Dept. Reg's at the time). However, the gaping exit wounds were hard to miss. Most after the fact observers thought we were using some kind of "Magnum" rifles.

NOT!

I used the 85gr Nosler over the starting load of H4895 for my two daughters for their first deer. They weren't particularily recoil sensitive, but were 12 and 13 when they took an interest in hunting (it was the boys at school that got them interested, they WEREN'T interested in what I did!).

For my wife, I just used the regular 100gr load, and she didn't even notice the recoil when she dropped the "hammer" on the deer. (What was wrong with the rifle, It didn't kick like its supposed too? was the answer). In the excitement, they won't notice the recoil.

Use either of the 75-87gr bullets over 35.0gr of H4895. It'll give you about 2,800fps which will kill deer like "lightning" if hit with a reasonable hit. Recoil will be mild, and accuracy excellent.

BTDT

(I didn't mention that the rifle is a m98 Mauser sporter with lt wt. bbl and weighs 7lbs with Leupold VariX II scope. I cut down the stock to fit the girls and refit the recoil pad. Stock fit is very important regarding felt recoil)

 

[Oldnamvet]

In addition to caliber and bullet, have you investigated all the new high tech recoil reducing devices and pads? Also, the stock has to fit her to give minimum recoil. I have had ill-fitting guns of mild caliber knock the $not out of me.

 

[jlacy]

Great input.

Oldnamvet : You are on to something there. I will look in to one of the new recoil reducing pads for it. It is a Ruger M77 with the stock hard ruber pad. That may be exactly what is needed for her.

goose: I think you are right on with the 257 rob. I have used it on lots of game and have had great results. I normally use the 100 or 117 grain bullets and hand load them to the +p levels.
I think most people that just use the roberts with the weak factory ammo do not see its full effects. Everything I have shot with it has had little time left on its feet. I think one of the reasons for this is the recoil or lack of. This allows very easy shooting and practice. Many people over look it for the new stuff like the 25-06 but I think it holds it own. For a big game / varmit rifle the roberst is hard to beat when handloaded. If I had to keep only one rifle for use in the lower 48 it would make the short list.

I think with the 87gr bullets and a new pad she will be fine. I will try to get her some more range time in the next few weeks.

Thanks to all for your input.

 

[Sunray]

"...she shoots well..." Leave the load as is and get a slip-on recoil pad. Or a shooting vest with a built in recoil pad.
I'm guessing that deer season in Texas is a bit warmer weather wise than Ontario. Cabelas sells an adjustable slip on(the body) recoil pad for $27.99 that should fix the problem. (They also sell infant sized camouflage clothing. Geeuz, now there's a 'tactical' baby.) http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...01044&parentType=index&indexId=cat601044&rid=