lights on during nighttime HD situation?

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carterbeauford

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I had a false alarm last night. Setting is a rural farm with close proximity to a major interstate highway. I am lying in bed half asleep about 1AM when I hear a noise that sounded like glass breaking. I was waiting for one of the door/window alarms I installed on the first floor to go off, if a window had been broken with plans of opening it. I grabbed my bathrobe, PT145, 870, turned on the Surefire 6P mounted on the 870 and did a quick search of my home. No windows broken, no intruders. False alarm. Went back to bed.

Best conclusion I can draw is a piece of silverware slipped and crashed into a glass in my sink of dirty dishes. Sounded remarkably like glass breaking.

Lying in bed but with heart rate still elevated, I couldn't sleep, so I did some thinking. Would there be a tactical disadvantage to simply turning on all the lights in one's home in such a situation? I didn't turn on a single light, even upon searching the garage. The main disadvantage I thought of would be allowing the BG's eyes to adjust to the light and not being able to blind them with the Surefire. Not so sure it would give away my position any more so than running around with a flashlight turned on, though.

Then again turning on the lights would allow a quicker, easier search. Notable is that my home is only about 800 square feet and almost all the lights can be turned from switches in a 12' radius. Curious to read your opinions. I think I will stick with my current tactics if this situation ever arises again, if anything I think a brighter flashlight is in order. 65 lumens blind temporarily in the dark but I figured 240 will blind worse.
 
To be honest, I don't think you should even get to "lights on or off." You shouldn't leave a room that you know to be safe, in my opinion, unless there's something that absolutely must be retrieved to garauntee safety. In my mind that means your firearm or your kids. You had your firearm, and didn't mention any kids. You would have been much safer staying put. That would also spare you your second-guessing about the lights.

That said, if you have to go out there, turn on all the lights on the way. The BG's eyes are probably already adjusted to the darkness, so make them readjust and give yourself the advantage of being able to see him all at once, as well as other important things. Like stairs.

A surefire is bright enough to mess with a person's eyes even when they're adjusted to normal indoor lights, let alone if their eyes are already trying to adjust to another light level.

Last time I had a close call, also started with the sound of glass breaking downstairs. I grabbed my shotgun, checked the lock on the door to my room, and stood adjacent to the door behind my dresser. Someone coming in wouldn't see me right away, and would have to break the lock, and would then have to deal with being blinded by a surefire and probably slapped with buckshot at zero range. But I was very safe where I was.

Turns out it was the cat knocking over a water glass.
 
Would there be a tactical disadvantage to simply turning on all the lights in one's home in such a situation?
Click to expand...

I wrestled with the issue of illumination in my apt. My kids room has a big glass sliding door, and is closer to the front of the apt than my room, so I essentially have to "clear" the house, (As good as I can, I am no SWAT guy, and I have had only the briefest MOUT training in the Corps.) I can't afford expensive Sure-Fire lights, and I want my hands as free as possible, so I decided on room illumination. I bought a bunch of $5 L.E.D. night lights from Target, (They plug in and swivel direction for aiming them,) and placed them around the apt as strategically as I could. I darken my approach as much as possible and illuminated the living room as much as possible. I also placed pictures on the wall that gave me a view of of the living room, (Reflection of the glass,) but did not allow a view of the hallway I would be approaching from. I tried to backlight where an intruder might come from as much as possible.

But ideally I could turn on the lights remotely, while still remaining in an obscured location, not sure I would set that up, but I can't play with the house wiring in a rental anyway.
 
I don't plan on searching my house: I'll hunker down in the bedroom and wait for the BG's to come to me, while I call the cops. That being the case, I leave a light on in the living-room all night. I reckon if a BG gets in, it's likely to be in a location that forces him to come through the living-room to get to my bedroom. Thus, his eyes will be accustomed to the light, and he won't be able to see into my dark bedroom very easily - but he'll be silhouetted against the light from the living-room, making him an easy target for me.
 
Lights On? Lights Off? I vote "On" via a master switch located in the master bedroom (outdoor security floods plus selected interior lights). I want them gone or lit up before I go downstairs to see whats up.

A better question to pose is... Dog On? Dog Off? Just about any type of canine will tell you bad ju ju is present or en route. But you know that.
 
As a contractor, one trend I have noticed it a central "command" set of switches being installed usually either at the kitchen living area and/or the MBR area. Here is not uncommon to have a series of light switches that control all the lighting in the house, or a great deal of it. The pattern seems to be two Quad boxes with the top box controlling all the exterior lights. Run your hand across the top and all the outside floods come on, the bottom box has all the main interior switches coming on, front and rear hall, stairways, LR KITCHEN etc. The general idea is that most criminals are like cockroaches, turn on the lights and they scatter.
 
With my X-10 controllers, I can turn on living room/kitchen lights, while leaving bedrooms dark.

Give me a HUGE advantage, because I'm in the shadows, while the BG(s) are dealing with 500 or so watts of light.
 
The fact that you should just stay put and wait for the po po aside.

Why would you even the playing feild by turning the lights on? It's dark you know your house better than he knows your house. You know he's there, he doesn't know you know he's there. You have the option to use a tactical light when you want do for the final target identification, which will also interupt his OODA and partially blind him much more than the lights just coming on.

Just my 0.02
Chris
 
You shouldn't leave a room that you know to be safe, in my opinion, unless there's something that absolutely must be retrieved to garauntee safety.
Click to expand...

Turns out it was the cat knocking over a water glass.
Click to expand...

So how did you find out it was the cat? Did you call the police and they checked it out for you?

More likely, you waited some period of time until you thought you didn't hear any more noise, and then looked yourself. So when you looked, did you take your gun? Did you turn your lights on, or leave them off?
 
I would say the majority of burglars, when confronted with bright lights, will run out of instinct. Obviously, if the guy is on PCP, is a serial killer type, or your ex-wife hired him to whack you, he might stick around despite the lights. However, I still think the lights on gives you a tactical advantage (especially in a two story) as the perp now has to travel up the stairs in full illumination.

Of course, I'm thinking of my place which has an open foyer with a high ceiling. Your response probably depends more on the layout of your house.
 
I had the same debate with myself too. If it is a definate break in. Then I'll defend the top of the stairs leading to my family's bedrooms and calling 911. It's the "could be something, or could be nothing" things that got me concerned. My plan is to grab my Kel-tec P3at (the only thing I have that I can stick in my Pajama pants pocket without them falling down:eek: ) and taking a peek downstairs. Calling 911 every time I hear a noise would not make the township happy. I debated if I should do this with a flashlight or just turn on the lights. Actually I'm having an electrician coming in to move a few switches. I like the Idea some of you guys brought up regarding a master switch upstairs to turn on all the lights downstairs. I'll have to get a price on that. Meanwhile another option is I guess dog, unforunately my kids and I are allergic :( . At least if your dog gets "squrrielly" you know something is not right.
 
I settled this debate in my mind. I would prefer to leave the lights out. I have my reasons.

1. I can see in the dark rather well and so can my dog.
2. Turning on a light can give away your position.
3. Turning on a light will kill the BG's night vision, but it will also kill your own. I'd rather be able to see and use a weapon light to blind him and not me.
4. Turning on lights will kill your element of suprise.
5. Turning on lights makes the BG an easier target, but it makes you one too.
 
I live out in a rural area, the nearest house is about a 1/4 mile away.
I have had nieghbors ask why I don't leave lights on outside at night. My response is always so I can see them. I use the same principle in the house when I go check a noise, the darker the better. With my yard/home dark a flash of light is very noticable even in my sleep. A BG will need some sort of illumination to navigate my yard/enter my home. I you have to walk around with a flash light on, you make a very good target.
 
Since I am not LEO, or Military -

I'm not going to be wandering around looking for Trouble. My plan is take cover, dial the Authorities on a DIRECT Line and give them my Situation, Where I am in the structure, and Codewords.

If Trouble comes to me I have "retreated" as the Laws of my state require I do, I have called authorities first, expressed a fear of immediate danger to me/others, and have a way to know by code words the authorities have shown up.

Lee makes a good point, as many have before - Dogs make great Security Tools.

Lights?

One can simply have ambient light "strategically" such to backlight the dog, the rest of the family, a guest or even trouble.

I mean even a simple thing like the light on the vent-a-hood being left on, plug-in hall lights, that decorative light left on.

One may fall asleep in the chair, or couch. For instance someone sick, recovering from surgery and it was light - they dozed off to find darkness has fallen and no lights left on...they get startled.

If one were to visit with local independent Security and Locksmith Places - all sorts of measures can be done...some one can do themselves - others may require more advanced knowledge or tools.

Emergency lights - someone pulls the switch on the box outside - emergency lights pop on. Battery Backup to already battery system and the
1) Weather knocked out power, and looters out
2)BG trips lever to use darkness to advantage
and

That business/ home/ apt/ dwelling has lights...best go find an easier target.

Remote control lights.

Hey, comes in great if recovering from hip/knee surgery and "risk for falls" means you can remote a light on - when you fell asleep and no lights left on.

Well - various ways to "remote" a light on. Might just be an extra lightswitch(s) in rooms folks go for cover as pre-planned and when flipped on turns on lights that are in the hall, foot of stairs...a bathroom...guest bedroom and empty...

Perception

---

Sometimes it is NOT about BGs and Zombies all this Strategy & Tactic.
Granted it used to be part of the Common Sense curriculi .

Example:

Remember I fired family [except one] and many so called friends.

Two Female folks [same last name, one by marriage and one maiden name] Were pregnant, and alone, when the power went out - including phone lines.
Both were alone and sleeping in the Recliners as - at this stage getting into and out of a bed kinda hard and uncomfortable.

Hear noises. Scared to death in front rooms, total dark, and one does not have a phone near the recliner , the other one did, and no dial tone.

Oooph! Get up, stub toes and try cell phones, lines out of service - there goes 911 to "save them".

Later I got my butt chewed and my fault. This is when they finally got ahold of me...and I actually chose to speak to them.

"You ever think of having a flashlight near you in the front room that has batteries and works?"

Did ya'll know Deacon's wives cuss and use the Lord's Name in vain - some do...this one did.

"What could have I done if it was not Emergency Folks trying to restore power and a BG coming in to rape me?"

"Well, for sure you were not going to get pregnant - again"

<string of expletives>

'If...If mind you, and I am going to use that "F" word - "Firearm" and all that other stuff I am "so wrong about" you could have waddled to retreat and taken cover".

It seems it was my fault for not having my Crystal Ball out and using it read their minds.

Stupid me was working a another 18 hr shift back to back with folks breaking hips and knees, having heart attacks and wrecking cars ...getting kidney transplants and other stuff not as important as bailing out stupid folks.
 
lonestar - I heard that poodles are non-allergenic? What I mean is if you are allergic to dogs you probably will not be allergic to poodles. If you don't have them shaved they won't look so bad and the full size ones get quite large. Let their fur grow out and they don't look at all like a poodle so you won't get teased and your kids will probably love it. Same thing for Siamese cats.
 
Yeah, because poodles don't have fur. They have hair that, like people, needs to be trimmed. Used them for hunting dogs. The thick hair keeps them warm in freezing water.
 
We have a high ceiling foyer with stairs up to second floor MBR. We leave a 40 watt decorative gee-gaw that wife likes on in foyer to backlight anyone coming up stairs inlcuding 24yr old boomarang man child. My SOP is if it is coming up stairs and I don't know it, it needs to rethink its actions.

Edited to add: Two shelties don't need the light to function as they even bark when boomarang man child comes home until they identify him.
 
You have the option to use a tactical light when you want do for the final target identification, which will also interupt his OODA and partially blind him much more than the lights just coming on.
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Yes, and then he will reset YOUR OODA loop when he starts firing as well because you have already decided that when you reset his OODA loop, you have virtually won the fight.

At TR, the everything 'handiman' served as a bad guy for various force on force exercises. Clint would lament and smile how the oh-so tactical SWAT guys would come in and feel confident they would sweep the Terminator with some ease. The problem is, the 'handiman' is a fellow skilled gunner and carried no light. However, everytime somebody lit him up, he shot'em. As Clint noted, he doesn't lose often and more rarely when it is one on one. You see, the notion of blinding people doesn't work quite so well as it gives them a very defined target at which to shoot and they can spray and pray because they don't care if your family members get hit as well. The light works both ways.
 
The fact that you should just stay put and wait for the po po aside.
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Easier said than done. Two factors:

1) I can't be calling 911 everytime I hear something go bump in the night.
2) response times are unacceptable for the State Police barracks which would respond. Never had to call them in a HD situation, but it took 45 minutes to get an officer on the scene of a near-fatal accident in front of my house. The barracks is 6 or 7 miles up the road. They cannot be relied on, and consequently are not my first line of defense.
 
I live in very Rural area. Speed dial to PD AND neighbors. We take neighborhood security very seriously.

My house has full perimeter lighting IE; 500watt floods. They block all visible parts of the house from outside, lights on inside or not you are blinded by the exterior lights leaving tactics easily done from inside.

it took about 500 dollars expended when we remodeled the house 15 years ago for this. The way they are laid out I can exit by the rear door invisible to intruders. They will have also turned the lights on when coming up the driveway ay the 200 foot mark.
 
yeah the problem is 9 times out of 10 when you hear something go bump it's the hamster who's managed to escape, not a gang of thieves who have picked the lock to your front door. Generally when you hear something you're going to have to check on it, not crouch behind the bed with your Mossberg pointed at the blackened bedroom doorway for an hour or call the cops for the tenth time this month.

Your best bet would be to rig up a strobe light in the ceiling of each room and have a switch that will turn all of them on at once and lock all your doors at the same time while you hunt the intruders down one by one :what:
 
The light works both ways.
Click to expand...

I had never considered that. :rolleyes:

What sounds like is the people who thought they knew what they where doing had no clue as to the use of flashlights in low light. Strobe light on, id target, move.

It would be safer for you to just shoot at the threat. That being said target ID is still a nesscary requirement, ergo NVD's or white light of some sort is required. A quick flash of a very bright light to night adapted eye's is disorienting. Followed by immediate movement and not keeping the light on, allows you to ID the target with significantly less disadvantage than completely leveling the playing field by turning the room lights on. It also leaves the element of surprise which is completely gone when the lights come up.
 
All other factors aside I think it depends on personal preference. I do not like weapon-mounted lights, and instead prefer a separate handheld. Remote switches for flood and or spotlighting mounted in positions and directed away from the sleeping area of the home will give the defender advantage and place intruders at a disadvantage. Any intruder is confronted with being illuminated, and having light directed to interfere with a clear view and progress from any point of ingress. And the defender is either in shadow or has the benefit of all lighting being directed away towards the avenues of ingress towards the bedroom area.

I would refrain from calling the police unless I actually encounter an intruder and it becomes necessary, or after the fact to report the break-in. If you call the police to report an intrusion in progress it is unlikely that they will enter your home and "clear it" for you while you sit in the comfort of your bedroom. More likely is that they are going to ask you to come outside and meet them. Unless you have a convenient exit giving immediate access to the outside, you chance encountering any intruder(s) going out to meet them, and should any shooting start at that point you are in a very bad position.

Best to be and stay in command and control of your castle.

-------------------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org
 
I'm not going to be wandering around looking for Trouble. My plan is take cover, dial the Authorities on a DIRECT Line and give them my Situation, Where I am in the structure, and Codewords.
Click to expand...

1. The strategy dictated depends almost entirely on whether you have children spread throughout the house...right?
2. Remember New Orleans...:uhoh:

Rich
 
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