Tactical Lights for HD... why?

[Geronimo45]

Didn't seem to find any threads specifically on this issue. My search-fu may be broken.
Anyways:
Tactical lights are strongly advocated for CC folk. Absolutely understandable. You may be outside or in a strange part of town, or or or...
But for HD, they seem kindly... superfluous to me. Unless your BG cuts your power and moves in (pretty unlikely?) you ought to have your lights and switches for same working. With all due respect to Surefire, it seems to me that normal light fixtures will cover a wider area instantly... isn't that what you're after - finding the threat ASAP?

I'm ignoring the whole weapon-mounted versus hand-held light business and weapon choices, just focusing on what I believe is the light's goal - revealing the intruder.

Could somebody say why/how Surefires and such would do a better job for normal HD purposes?

 

[enfield303]

Geronimo,
In answer to your question, have you ever been hit in the face with a beam from one of those things? It SUCKS!!! If you are playing Ninja in a dark house, it will blind you. if you can't see, you can't really do much. besides, having something other than the lightswitch can be a big advantage, YOU control when the lights come on, and don't have to do it from a doorway. those are the reasons I can think of. VERY good question though.

 

[Jdoc]

The way I see it....

If the BG just broke into the house through the living room window and your bedroom or what ever room you are coming from is down the hall and to the right you come out flicking switches and turning on lights would give away your position in the house. Which may or may not be a good thing depending on the situation and intentions of said BG. And a bright flash light lights up whats in front of you and makes the person behind the light a bit harder to see. I may be totaly wrong but thats how I see things.

 

[shouldifail]

My understanding (however limited it may be) is that Iwould use the flashlight to put light on the intruder, while limiting the intruders view of me.
Not only that, but high powered flashlights can be quite disorienting if shined in a persons eyes when they have acclimated to the dark.

My wife got me a surefire G2 for christmas, and in the process of "trying it out" in darkened rooms, I nearly blinded myself.
just my 2 pennies.

 

[Blacky]

Remember the Hitchcock movie "Rear Window" when Jimmy Stewart hit 'ol Raymond Burr with his flash bulbs?

I rest my case.

 

[theken206]

for the same reason the the "real" folks use em. I like tactical superiorty in any form i can get it in, be it volume of fire or a bright shiney light.

 

[Blacky]

Surefire X300 Back In Stock, get um while they're hot.

 

[ShackleMeNot]

White light from a high intensity flashlight is a powerful tool and it can give you an advantage in a fight if used properly.

 

[KowBoY_NE]

lights, why not?!?!?!?

Geronimo45,
please read the story posted here(this is for everybody who continues to insist that anyone in there home is a threat) about the man who shot his brother-in-law!
sad story...

nuff said about lights to identify who you are fixin on destroyin'

 

[Fred Fuller]

White light source = Target identification/target discrimination. From the THR Library:

RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED

RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY

RULE III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET

RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET

You cannot be sure of a target you cannot SEE. The light source is pretty much irrelevant, its use is not.

lpl/nc

 

[mc30707]

My brother in law has a $500 surefire light on his AR15. It is very bright and really lights up what area you shine it at, but in my opinion it also makes you a target. I don't think I want to give away my position like that. I often think that while hes shining the light around I could easily pick him off with my stock AR or AK. Do the advantages out weigh the disadvantages of giving away your position?

 

[Kingcreek]

I know my house better than anyone (except maybe my wife). I know the floorplan and the placement of the furniture, etc and I can move through my house in the dark. I want the option of flooding any part of it, and anybody in it, with lots of bright light- instantly and only with my total control of that light. A quality hand-held light is the best tool for that job.
My wife and I have G2 at each of our bedsides. Next to them is a Glock 23 (and extra mag) on my side and on her side is a Colt Diamondback .38 (and 2 full speedloaders) that my wife handles very well. Also nearby and fully loaded is an 870 and an AR15 (with mounted light/laser). Of course with 2 dogs and a good security system as primary layers, the chances of getting into an inside shootout are pretty remote.

 

[rjohnson4405]

I want a pressure switch activated light on my HD shotgun for this reason. I can turn it on or off quickly without shifting grip depending on what I want. In my head it plays out like this: I move through the house, and hopefully because I know it better, can get a pretty good idea where the intruder is by noise or whatever. Then flash him with the light, ideally mostly behind cover, blinding him long enough for me to identify him and his threat and decide what action needs to be taken.

Haven't been there yet but that's how I'd like it to go. Moving one finger turns the light on, otherwise it's off while I move.

Lots of good advice so far, good luck!

 

[Robert Hairless]

Completely unnecessary unless you need one for seeing. If you know that you'll never need it, there's no point in having it.

Same principle applies to home defense guns. If you know you'll never need one, there's no point in having one.

If you're wrong or the unexpected happens, though, you might be in a lot of trouble.

 

[Elmer Fudd]

Our basement motion sensor tripped our alarm system at 4am. Pretty scary, because our system is very reliable. I can only remember one or two unexplained false alarms in 10 years. Wife got the kids in the bedroom while I cleared the house with a Glock 19 that I attached a Streamlight M3 weaponlight to. You absolutely need the ability to light up areas on demand. The lightswitch might be on the wrong side of the room. What do you do when you open a closet with no interior light? I want blinding light in anyone's face who might be inside. The light gives you a lot of flexibility. I have a handheld light also, but frankly am not as skilled with it as I should be. After shooting nightime IDPA (our club limits you to handheld lights only) a couple times you realize it is a lot harder than it looks. Plus you keep both hands on the weapon in case someone would jump you.

ETA: It was a mouse.

Tactics note: if I had heard someone I would not clear the house, just call 911/let the monitoring company call the police and hunker down in the bedroom with the family. But with only one interior sensor tripped and no noise it is probably a false alarm.

In a really weird coincidence, my wife and I own a remote property. It has a monitored wireless alarm system. I got notified that the door switch was tripped yesterday morning. I drove down and cleared the property with a rifle. The monitoring station calls the sheriff, but the gate is locked and the house a mile back, so all they do is check if the gate is locked, and of course they are gone before I arrive. It also was a malfunction, as the interior motion did not trip and there was no sign of any damage to the door. I have had that happen once before in four or five years. I replaced all the wireless sensor batteries and adjusted the sensor contact a little.

 

[tydephan]

Well, my fingers are tired this morning, so I'm going to resort to a worn-out horribly overused cliche (how bout that for verbal redundancy):

It is better to have it and not need it, than...well...you know the rest.

 

[1911 guy]

Directed light.

If I hit the light switch and turn on an overhead light, we're both equally blinded by it at 3:00 am. I want a bright, directed light to use at my discretion. Brighter is better. A 3 dollar flashlight makes you a target. A blinding white light makes you impossible to see and likely will cause the other person to look away momentarily.

 

[Sheldon J]

Turning on a room light at night burns your night vision so you are blind when you go to the next room, real bad idea when you are in a tactical situation. Strobing and moving with a high output tactical light gives you many advantages, most of which have already been posted here.

Faster Target ID and acquisition.
BG disoriented by bright flash.
Enhanced family security and safety.
Additional security tool at your disposal.
and the best for last...
Legitimate Excuse to buy a new High $$$ toy.

 

[PPGMD]

It is very bright and really lights up what area you shine it at, but in my opinion it also makes you a target. I don't think I want to give away my position like that. I often think that while hes shining the light around I could easily pick him off with my stock AR or AK.

It's not for use outdoors, NVDs rule the roost outdoors. But indoors high intensity flashlights work better, why do you think you see so many in Iraq?

 

[TexasRifleman]

But for HD, they seem kindly... superfluous to me.

Go read Jeff Whites thread on the guy shooting his brother in law.

And from the tactical standpoint you dont want to turn on the overhead lights in the house, those illuminate
both you AND the badguy.

Plus you can't turn them back off to gain adcantage there unless you take a hand off your weapon, never a good plan.

just focusing on what I believe is the light's goal - revealing the intruder.

And not reavealing much else. And having a light with momentary controls allowing you to "flash" the intruder, so you gain knowledge of where he is. Then you move. It is your house. You know the furniture, the doors, the hallways, he doesn't.

If you think an intruder is in your home, turning on the lights could get you killed.

Flash him once to ID, move, flash again and shoot. You turn on the overhead lights and you are on even footing. Why would you want to make a gunfight in your own home a fair fight?

A light with an easy to use momentary on/off switch is, to me, a huge advantage.

 

[sm]

Tactical.
I admit I detest the word "tactical" as how it is being used out of context so often and exploited by Marketing.

Definition : Characterized by adroitness, ingenuity, or skill., this definition is one I can accept and I do subscribe to.

Q. Why have a Light in the Home, or Business?
A. Mr. Murphy is always looking for a opportunity to screw you up.

Real Life has taught me, Evil likes darkness, and Mr. Murphy just cannot stand to miss an opportunity to screw with folks.

Personally, I ain't got a problem with a Mag-Light, be it a bigger one with multiple batteries, or AA, even single AAA ones.

I - on purpose - set up my Mom, and other folks with the disposable Garrity Lights.
These are Replaced twice a year, at the same time new batteries are installed in Smoke Detectors.

Evil has shown up in my life, at home, and at Office settings, with the power turned off intentionally, or due to Ice Storms, T' storms, Tornadoes, Floods, and Fire.

Heck, I go back to Chrome plated flashlights, with "Regular" Batteries, Glass lens and "intermittent" button, with a "loop" that unfolded at the base of the handle.

Cops carried similar lights back in the day as well.
Fire Fighters did too...

Identify Targets....

Real Life, and more than once for me personally.
My lights were not the current Modern, Heavily advertised lights.

I used a AA Maglight to exit from the 10th floor a Hotel Building and assisted others getting down the stairs.

Fireman coming up, smoke and they saw MY Maglight and these Firefighters - one cannot say enough good things...
"WE identified you because of that light!" - Fireman

It does not matter the emergency lights did not work in that stairwell and "were supposed to", Murphy showed up and these emergency lights did not work.

Flood hits, and I am tied with rope and going in to get a blind lady our of her duplex.
Water is rising, and one has to do what they gotta do...
One of "my kind" and it is dark being cloudy, overcast and rain coming down like crazy...so hard one could not hear...

I get in ( busted glass to do so) and this lady and I cannot really hear one another...
PRACTICED lessons WE and my kind do and she has slipped over her head that Garrity Light and I find her, atop a dresser.

Fire.
My kind Practices some lessons and have some simple, not expensive tools, one being that Garrity light , that is only for Serious Situations, and replaced twice a year.
Kids, do not play with these, or the other items.

Drill is : if the smoke alarm goes off, the Garrity is slipped over head as I have electrical taped a lanyard, the bandanna's go over mouth and nose ("like an outlaw") and door knobs are check, doors felt...Coaches Whisltes are used...other tools...

That light is not only for these folks to see, also to be Identified.
Pre-arranged plans and if a kid, gets out, they go to this spot(s) and and light lets First Responders find them.

In Rural Areas, Fire Depts (Volunteers) know these families and will look in spots and for these lights.

Identifying Targets extends to more than BGs and Guns.

Reality being, the probability of a Serious Situation being Fire, Tornado, Storms and the like - instead of BGs and Guns.

Personal Pet Peeve of mine. Everything is centered around a damn gun!
Folks have Gee-Whiz Guns and Exotic Ammo and Gun Equipment out the rear end...
And not a damn pre-arranged plan, or equipment to deal with Fire.

Baking Soda I can get 2 for $1 at the Dollar Store. I keep a box near my Stove for grease fires.
Yes I have a Quality Fire Extinguisher in the Kitchen, still I know from experience what a 50 cent box of generic baking soda will do for a grease fire on the stove.

The kitchen flashlight I paid $2 for - and it came with batteries.

$2.50 and I can ID something in the kitchen and put out a grease fire.

Electricity went out and I had the Kerosene Lamps I bought for $5 filled with Lamp oil to use in the house.

Gas Stove and cooking Bacon , Biscuits, Eggs, and making coffee for supper.
Neighbor come over, and my fault, I should removed cast iron from stove ,still just turned down fire.

Neighbor comes in, and wind from door opening blew a paper towel to skillet which caught fire...
Lamps, had enough light to allow me to do a "snag skillet with one hand and dump baking soda with the other" maneuver.

Well... tossing soda on my food was an option, but I do Eggs and Bacon really well and I was hungry. I chose to handle this "serious situation" this way. I still had back-up options and tools to deal with my mistake.

Neighbor came over to see if I had some kind of odd battery for a "tactical" flashlight his employer had given him...
I did not, but did have AA and an extra AA Maglight...


No tool is any better than user of said tool.

Identification of targets also means one may need to be Identified by having light on person.

Inova key ring lights for $6 will do this, so will a $5 single AAA Solitare.

I have one light with "tactical" in the name, a Coast LED about the size of a Solitaire that came with 4 extra AG13 batteries. IIRC $9 at Academy.

My EverReady two AAA battery powered LED penlight I paid $6 for at the Auto Parts store, it has a pocket clip and came with the batteries.

This one is similar to the Ray-O-Vac and Everyready two AAA penlights with pocket clips - like Doctors and Nurses use - and I have used one forever.
Most times taking notes while lights are dimmed/off and Presentation on a screen is being done.
Enough light to see what I am doing, not enough to distract others or presentation.


I used one of those to distract a BG in situation once. I tossed it one way, and exited another...
$2 I tossed, still it was the best option and worked.

Strategy & Tactics to me is about thinking and how to go about doing something.

Not what the Marketing Hype says I gotta have.

 

[Gingerbreadman]

Warning: post may contain Mall Ninja/ Armchair Commando speak here.

You have to know how to use your equipment. If you can't shoot right, your gun won't work well for you. If you don't know how to use your light, it will screw you. Last weekend, I was at an indoor airsoft game (yeah, I know. bear with me) in what used to be an old warehouse that had many dark spots, even with the lights on. A quick burst of light into these mystery spots does wonders to show if someone is hiding there. On the other hand, it also alerted people that I couldn't see to my presence.

A year earlier, I found out just how hard it can be to face down a narrow beam of bright white light. I couldn't see the person behind it, and when I tried to focus on him, the light effectively blocked out everything else in the room. The beam worked when it was pointed right at me. Pointed to either side, it wasn't nearly as effective. If the other guy had it illuminated but not pointing at me, all it was good for was to be a beacon saying "shoot me."

I believe that a "taclight" is a great option to have available, but it doesn't turn you into a superhero. Just my $.02

 

[MrCleanOK]

1. I know how to get around my house in the dark, the bad guy does not. I'm not going to turn the lights on and make it easier for him.
2. My silhouette is easy to see in a door frame, especially if the lights are on elsewhere in the house. Light switches are invariably next to door frames.
3. Throwing the lights on in a room will have the same effect on me as it will on the bad guy.
4. 120 lumens that goes with me where ever I go and goes on and off when I want beats the heck out of a few 60 watt bulbs stuck to the ceiling that I can only control from a switch on the wall.
5. If your eyes are adjusted to the dark, taking a hit to the face from a high intensity flashlight will seriously mess up your vision for a few minutes.

Just as a test when I got my Surefire, I had my roommate sit in a chair on our front porch and shine it at me from across the street at night. Even with my eyes still used to the lights from inside our house (had only been out in the dark less than a minute), all I could see was a brilliant halo of light around a really bright source that completely obscured his body. He could have been pointing a full-auto death laser at me with his other hand and I never would have known.

 

[Blacky]

Or you could just keep a set of $4000.00 night vision goggles on your nightstand.

A lot of valid points and counter points. It appears to boil down to personal preference.

Personally I'm all for the light. Yes, if you turn on your $500.00 Surefire or $10.00 mag-light you can become a target - if you turn it on, verify your target (or non-target) and turn it off, your target wont see you as well as you've seen them. I'm just a hunter/enthusiast, I would be very interested to hear the opinions of a veteran SWAT officer or someone with a lot of hazardous breach experience.

The comment made by sm No tool is any better than user of said tool. Sums it up pretty good.



This is the first Friday of the new year so Happy Friday and hallelujah the holidays are over.

 

[possum]

finding a light switch in the middle of the night when i have an intruder in my house is a crazy and foreign thought to me. use the dark to your advantage. if you turn on the light he knows exactly where you are. when you hit the light you will momentarially blind him, ad if you have trained in low light shooting then after you shoot, you will cut the light and move. speed and viloence of a action is what i preach, wait bad guy let me turn on the light ok, now you and i know where each other is great. if you knwo how to fight at night than you have an advantage over the bg, simple as that. thie light is also key to id what or who exactly is your house. it is my drunk battle buddy needing a place to crash? well yes he is dumb for comming in without giving me a heads up but i would rather that than to shoot my battle buddy because i couldn't id my target.

the technique that i pracice is to this cadence. light on bang bang, light off, move, light on , bang bag, light off, move, etc until the threat(S)are elliminated.