Load data for Precision Delta bullets

[crackleback]

I've been reloading PD 124gr 9mm JHP and FMJ for a long time using WW231. I've just bought some Titegroup and need to work up a load. Of course none of the manuals are going to list PD bullets so should I just use other comparable bullet's data and COAL.

I called Hodgdon and was told 4.1 to 4.4 but this certainly seems high in relation to other folk's loads that I'm reading. In addition I called PD and was given no data except the lengths on their loaded ammo is 1.100 on the JHP and 1.520 on the FMJ. I've never seen COAL recommendations of 1.520 on any powder.

Any input would be appreciated.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

I shot 3k of the 124gr Precision Delta bullets at my favorite load of 4.1-4.2 gr of Titegroup at an OAL of 1.1". They shot the same as all my other loads of 4.1-4.2 gr bullets, plated, jacketed, and what ever.

4.2gr is MAXIMUM LOAD FOR Hornady XTPs and the PD 124gr JHPs are very simular to XTPs.
I use 1.1" for a minimum OAL for this load.

I think 4.2 gr of Titegroup is or was maximum load for Titegroup in most manuals at one time for 124gr JHPs. (XTPs) I would not load Titegroup over that for any reason with a 124gr bullet.
I sounds like they gave you 115gr data.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

I called Hodgdon and was told 4.1 to 4.4

In my 49th edition of Lymans, that 4.1-4.4 is 115gr data.

 

[crackleback]

I shot 3k of the 124gr Precision Delta bullets at my favorite load of 4.1-4.2 gr of Titegroup at an OAL of 1.1". They shot the same as all my other loads of 4.1-4.2 gr bullets, plated, jacketed, and what ever.

4.2gr is MAXIMUM LOAD FOR Hornady XTPs and the PD 124gr JHPs are very simular to XTPs.
I use 1.1" for a minimum OAL for this load.

I think 4.2 gr of Titegroup is or was maximum load for Titegroup in most manuals at one time for 124gr JHPs. (XTPs) I would not load Titegroup over that for any reason with a 124gr bullet.
I sounds like they gave you 115gr data.

Yes, I thought I was given 115gr info also, but looking at Speer data for similar bullets they are showing 4.0 to 4.4????? In looking around the forums I've never seen a load that high.

So 4.1gr would work in the PD JHP or the FMJ? I would like to start as low as possible and work up. Would the OAL of 1.100 be the same? Speer is showing 1.135 on the FMJ and 1.120 on the JHP.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

No,
The full metal jacket and the PD or XTP are different bullet profiles. You can't do that. The FMJ is longer than the JHP so the base of the bullet will be deeper with the same load.

The OAL of the loaded round will be different and it needs to be. The FMJ is a longer bullet so if you loaded it to the same OAL as the PD or XTP, the base of the bullet will be deeper on the FMJ, causing a rise of pressure with the same powder charge
.
The OALs in the loading manuals reflect this and the powder charge for the same powder with different bullets, will be different when loaded to the same OAL.

You need to pay attention to the depth of the base of the bullets to keep from going over pressure. The deeper the base of the bullet the higher the pressure. Especially in a 9mm. The longer the bullet (because of the particular profile) the longer the OAL to keep pressure the same.

Remember the seating die will seat the same OAL and doesn't know anything about where the base of the bullet is.

What Speer manual did you get that load for Titegroup out of?

 

[kcofohio]

Their 124 gr. JHP is near identical to the 124 gr. XTP. The FMJ I have no experience with.

 

[crackleback]

No,
The full metal jacket and the PD or XTP are different bullet profiles. You can't do that. The FMJ is longer than the JHP so the base of the bullet will be deeper with the same load.

The OAL of the loaded round will be different and it needs to be. The FMJ is a longer bullet so if you loaded it to the same OAL as the PD or XTP, the base of the bullet will be deeper on the FMJ, causing a rise of pressure with the same powder charge
.
The OALs in the loading manuals reflect this and the powder charge for the same powder with different bullets, will be different when loaded to the same OAL.

You need to pay attention to the depth of the base of the bullets to keep from going over pressure. The deeper the base of the bullet the higher the pressure. Especially in a 9mm. The longer the bullet (because of the particular profile) the longer the OAL to keep pressure the same.

Remember the seating die will seat the same OAL and doesn't know anything about where the base of the bullet is.

What Speer manual did you get that load for Titegroup out of?

The data came off Speer's website and is for their part #3993 (FMJ) and 3998 (GDHP). I printed out the data file and have it in front of me and it shows 4.4 is max. I agree this sounds too hot to me.

Their OAL recommendations fall inline with what you are saying. See my post above. They recommend a longer COAL for the JHP.

 

[crackleback]

Their 124 gr. JHP is near identical to the 124 gr. XTP. The FMJ I have no experience with.

By "their" are you meaning Precision Delta?

 

[rfwobbly]

By "their" are you meaning Precision Delta?

Yes. I build specialty seating anvils. In doing so I noticed (actually measured) that the Precision Delta 124gr JHP uses the same ogive shape and angle as the Hornady XTP and HAP. Thus their bullet's shoulders are at the same position, giving them the same Max OAL in the same chamber.

The individual bullet lengths may be different, but their ogive profile is the same. Therefore, this statement (as it applies to ogive profiles)...

No, The full metal jacket and the PD or XTP are different bullet profiles.

Is in error.

 

[crackleback]

Yes. I build specialty seating anvils. In doing so I noticed (actually measured) that the Precision Delta 124gr JHP uses the same ogive shape and angle as the Hornady XTP and HAP. Thus their bullet's shoulders are at the same position, giving them the same Max OAL in the same chamber.

The individual bullet lengths may be different, but their ogive profile is the same. Therefore, this statement (as it applies to ogive profiles)...


Is in error.

Thanks, that's the info I needed.

"No, The full metal jacket and the PD or XTP are different bullet profiles." I've read that several times and I'm not exactly sure what titegroup tiger meant by it. Naturally any FMJ and JHP are different profiles. Not sure how he is using "PD" in this statement, since I'm talking about both PD JHP and FMJ.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

"No, The full metal jacket and the PD or XTP are different bullet profiles." I've read that several times and I'm not exactly sure what titegroup tiger meant by it. Naturally any FMJ and JHP are different profiles. Not sure how he is using "PD" in this statement, since I'm talking about both PD JHP and FMJ.

What i said was the PD (Precision Deltas) and the XTPs are the same profile.
The full metal jacket bullets are not the same profile as the XTPs and PDs profile. The OAL of the bullet is longer.
I am not in error. The full metal Jackets and the JHPs are two different length bullets. If the seating die is not changed to reflect this the base of the FMJ will be deeper and will raise pressure in the case.
I could care less about where the Ogive is with this issue.

So 4.1gr would work in the PD JHP or the FMJ? I would like to start as low as possible and work up. Would the OAL of 1.100 be the same?

No, it will not be. I am not wrong. The FMJs will be seated deeper because they are longer and will raise pressure above what you expect it to be. Maybe dangerously.

Again, this is not about where the Ogive is. It's about where the base of the bullet ends up and the FMJs being longer, will end up deeper and raise pressure with the same OAL.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

I'm using PD as Precision Delta's JHPs.