load diagnosis and ?'s Blue dot and HS-7 in .357

[anothernewb]

Thanks in advance

Anyone use these much?

Basic background, These are the powders I have been able to come across lately, HS-7, HS-6 and blue dot. I was looking for unique, and haven't seen any for a looong time, and have missed every darn opportunity to get some. just too darn slow with the credit card online, lol. SO... I have 2# of blue dot, and one # of each of the others to work with.

I am trying to create a lighter magnum range load in the 1000fps range or so. I fell into a bunch of bowling pins that need some serious knocking around!

Trying to diagnose some things I observed last night.
Gun: 6" GP100, stainless

First off the blue dot:
9.8gr
158 lead SWC
loaded to 1.590
std primers

load performed fine, no sticky cases, but quite a bit of smoke, and a healthy recoil. I was aiming for midrange magnum velocities. I had no chrono with, but based on the bowling pin's reaction, they were moving along at a good rate.
Most of the load data I found pushes blue dot and lead to over 10 grains, which is way hotter than I'm looking for. but I've also heard blue dot doesn't burn well lower down. How "low" is low? under 9 grains perhaps?


HS-7.
24 rounds each at
9.3gr 9.5gr, 9.7 gr.
158 swc
1.590 COL
std primers

By far and away the 9.3 was the most comfortable to shoot, Seemed like a light level magnum to me. and definatley the level of recoil I was looking for.
but all loads produced a bit of leading, and had a serious level of unburned powder left in the case, which did not improve as I moved up in powder level. Accuracy was really really good. 2" groups off hand at 50' which is as good as I can shoot on a good day anyway.
the unburned powder is bugging me though. these are messy loads. left the cylinder absolutely filthy. the darn GP looked like a blued one when I was done. Does anyone know if this is perhaps a difficult to ignite powder? Would using magnum primers potentially solve the unburned flakes and soot issue?

 

[USSR]

Can't help you with HS-7 or blue dot .357 loads, but I have used 9.0gr and 9.2gr HS-6 loads in .357 Magnum with my hard cast 165gr lead HP's. Didn't chronograph them, but they were not full power .357 Magnum loads.

Don

 

[tyeo098]

I just loaded up some blue dot 357 loads as well for my dads M92 in 357.

I'm using a 158gr RNFP Lee 358-158-RF 50-50 WW/PB Gas checked using PB checks.

I havent shot them yet, and I dont recall load charges of the top of my head. (9.3-9.4 I think was my starting load working up to 10.1)
I didn't have any small pistol magnum primers so I used SRP

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I shoot a 158gr to 160gr LSWC bullet over 9.2gr HS-6 and like said above, it's not a full power .357 Magnum load but I think it's what you are looking for.

HS-7(W571) is even slower than HS-6(W540) and will generate even more velocity in a .357 Magnum. I wouldn't get too attached to HS-7 though, it's been discontinued for a while now so I doubt you will be seeing on shelves much longer.

 

[Slamfire]

I tried Blue Dot in my 357 with lead bullets and the barrel leaded badly. Blue Dot only worked well at magnum loads with jacketed bullets.

 

[jmorris]

I really like 2400 for full house 357 loads.

I use my stock piles of HS-7 for my major 9 USPSA loads. Not a lot of people use it these days because it was discontinued around 10 years ago.

 

[TfflHndn]

I use Blue Dot in .38/.357 loads, but only with jacketed, not lead, for the same reason suggested by others - it works best at close to full-power loads. You may need to stick with the HS-6 or go to Green Dot or Red Dot or another faster powder for mid-power loads. Both have been pretty available in my area and on line.

 

[huntershooter]

As others have mentioned, HS-7 is a great powder for magnum pistol and +P 9mm/.38 Super.
Like HS-6, it is a poor candidate for reduced velocity loads. I've had "medium" range .357 loads accumulate so much powder residue under the extractor star the revolver would bind up after 6 rds.
I've found that magnum primers (in revolver cartridges) and small rifle primers (9mm/.38 Super) help with that in less than max loads.
My limited experience with BD was not to my liking; varying charge weights due to bulky granules led to erratic velocities and mediocre accuracy.

 

[Comrade Mike]

Blue dot only performs well up near maximum loads with jacketed bullets and a heavy crimp with .357. Anything else, forget it.

 

[anothernewb]

Loaded and fired several more rounds of BD lat 9.0 grains last night. Much improved. The gun was far, far less dirty surprisingly, but still a lot of smoke. probably still burning lube.

Also loaded up a few rounds with HS6 at 8.6 grains and magnum primers. vastly improved over the HS7. all rounds were clean, no unburned powder. The perceived recoil was less than the BD rounds as well. However, there was quite a bit of smoke with this load as well.

I got a reasonable group with both, but it was nearly dark out so I will have to try again with some real light.

There was a little leading, but I kind of expected that since it's a known that GP100 cylinders tend to run a little small for lead. I can deal with that since I do not intent to ream them out and redo the forcing cone at this time.

I'm going to try and drop the charges a bit again to see what happens. Thinking of taking the blue dot to about 8.5 grains and the HS6 to 8

If I can ever get ahold of a can of universal or Unique - hopefully the loads I can make with them will smoke less. Other than that, I'm pretty satisfied with these for now. There's likely room for some fine tuning, but at least I know these are workable for awhile.

 

[murf]

my load in a 4.625" blackhawk revolver:

158 grain lswc, 10.0 grains bludot, cci500 primer, healthy roll crimp, .004" case neck tension, 1250 fps, no barrel leading. mucho accurate!

tried 11.0 grains, got 1350 fps and real bad leading. went back to 10.0 grains.

murf

 

[Steve C]

For mid range loads with a velocity of around 1000 fps its best to use a mid range to fast powder but now supply has restricted many to what they can find.

The older Alliant data for 158gr LSWC and Blue Dot was a maximum of 10.3 gr using a Federal 200 primer for a velocity of 1,490 fps from a 5.6" barrel. Remember that lead bullets will reach higher velocity than jacketed bullets of the same weight using the same powder charge so it is likely your 9.8gr load is every bit equal to the typical factory loading with jacketed bullets at around the 1,250 fps range or more, thus the "healthy recoil". The smoke is mostly a function of the bullet lube with lead bullets rather than the result of powder used and you notice it more when shooting on an indoor range or when there is little breeze to disperse it when shooting out doors.

You should still get good burn with BD down to around 8.5grs but you may want to switch to a mag primer if you can find them.

 

[PO2Hammer]

My buddy bought 8 pounds of HS-7 before it was discontinued. One thing we learned is that you absolutely need magnum primers with HS-7. He had one failure to ignite (std primer) and velocity swings that you could hear and feel. It does make for a terrific carbine powder with jacketed bullets, but in a revolver it's a mess.
HS-6 is the better choice there. Again, magnum primers.

 

[hdbiker]

I'm with Murf

6 1/2 inch Blackhawk,10 grains of Blue Dot,158 grain hard cast SWC's , clean, accurate,minimal leading my favorite cast .357 load. hdbiker

 

[918v]

There was a little leading, but I kind of expected that since it's a known that GP100 cylinders tend to run a little small for lead. I can deal with that since I do not intent to ream them out and redo the forcing cone at this time.

What do your cylinder throats measure?

Why aren't you working up your loads from min to max?

 

[Rule3]

Blue dot only performs well up near maximum loads with jacketed bullets and a heavy crimp with .357. Anything else, forget it.

I am with Comrade Mike

Blue Dot is "flaming dirt" Unless used at max loads it is a spiky, dirty, poor performer, I will never buy it again with all the other powders out there.
At max loads it's fine.

But these days you gotta do what ya gotta do. I never have used HS7 so can not help you there.

Hodgdon nor Lyman cast list a load for the HS7

You are about the max listed by Alliant for the Blue Dot and a jacketed bullet so to use what you have 10% less than the 10.2 is around 9 so yes try that with the lead. Yes, it's dirty but you gotta clean anyway.

JMO, YMMV,

 

[Walkalong]

Somewhere from about 8.5 to 9.0 Grs will get you in the 1000 FPS range you are looking for. Whether it leads or not is up to many more factors than the powder.

Blue Dot has never been overly dirty for me at midrange .357 levels. I do not prefer it for that application, but for other reasons.