Load suggestions please: Light Loads for .40 S&W

[pert near]

I have a H&K P30 that I have developed a good full power load using Longshot & Xtreme 180gr bullets.

I would like to develop a minimum load for this gun using 165gr Xtreme plated bullets. I'm looking for the lightest load that reliably functions with minimum recoil as a goal. I realize that I may have to tinker with minimum charges to get proper cycling. I'm looking for 9mm sort of recoil, if that is possible.

What powder(s) would you suggest for light loads in the .40 with the 165's? My only criteria is that the powder meter well through a measure. Light, economical charges would also be a bonus.

Your thoughts, opinions & experiences are most appreciated.

 

[Rule3]

Make right with 40 lite.

http://www.handgunsmag.com/ammo/ammunition_40lite_091806/

 

[1KPerDay]

If you want light recoil I'd go lighter bullets. But try WST if you have it.

 

[Blue68f100]

Heavy bullet and fast powders are the key to getting mouse fart loads to cycle.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

I haven't found load for 165's that I like much.
I prefer 180's with just enough Bullseye to cycle.

 

[z7]

I use 180g extremes and 3.5g of bullseye, it cycles all 3 of my glocks including a g27 and g35, it is lighter than the 9mm loads I dial up as wel
I found used alliant’s online data, started low and worked down, i stopped at 3.5g because it worked, was decently accurate and super soft recoiling

 

[snakeye]

I make light loads for my daughter in law so she can shoot my 40 cal guns and recoil feels like 9mm...3.7 gr of Clays with Xtreme 165 gr pills

 

[rsrocket1]

I've developed 40 S&W loads for my guns that will feel exactly like 120g 9mm loads at 1100 fps. I've done this with my M&P 40 while swapping between 40 and 9mm barrels and mags.

My bullets are Lee 401-175-TC's that weigh 180g. I use 3.0g Red Dot or Clays and get 770 fps. You can use Titewad or Clays and go as low as 2.5g for 700 fps, but I like the slightly higher pressures to get good clean burns with virtually no smoke or soot.

Since these tests, I've acquired 3 9mm guns so now if I want to shoot loads that feel like 9mm rounds, I shoot a 9mm gun with 9mm bullets, but it's nice to know what a 9mm version of a 40 gun would feel like without having to buy the 9mm version.

Using a lower charge of a slower powder will result in more smokey shots with more soot and unburnt flakes. You want the fastest burning powder you can get a hold of to get the low charge pressures up as high as possible. Other powders that would work are AA #2, e3, Clay Dot, Extra Lite, IMR Red, Nitro 100 or Trail Boss (although the TB is very expensive per grain compared to the other powders).

If you carefully work down your loads, you can safely do this without sticking a bullet in the barrel. Evidence of too-light a load will be failure to lock the slide back on the last round, failure to fully cycle the slide, stove piping. A stuck bullet will not cycle the slide. If you're starting to get these symptoms, stop and don't shoot any more of these loads, you are too low. Drop the mag, open the slide and make sure the barrel is clear. Don't hand cycle the slide.

 

[LiveLife]

H&K P30 ... like to develop a minimum load ... using 165gr Xtreme plated bullets.

... looking for the lightest load that reliably functions with minimum recoil as a goal ,,, 9mm sort of recoil ... criteria is that the powder meter well through a measure. Light, economical charges would also be a bonus.

lower charge of a slower powder will result in more smokey shots with more soot and unburnt flakes ... want the fastest burning powder ... pressures up as high as possible.

Make right with 40 lite.

http://www.handgunsmag.com/ammo/ammunition_40lite_091806/

40S&W was my USPSA match caliber and I used a lot of 155/165/180 gr bullets with fast burning powders from Bullseye/Red Dot to slower burning powders like WSF/HS-6/AutoComp/CFE Pistol.

IMO/IME, lightest (less than 9mm) recoil loads that are still accurate and reliably cycle the slide will likely be obtained with heavier bullets (Similar to 9mm 147 gr bullet producing less felt recoil than 115/124 gr bullets) using moderately fast burning powders (W231/HP-38/Sport Pistol and faster).

When using below published start charges, faster burning powders provide more efficient powder burn/enough chamber pressures to seal the case mouth with chamber for more consistent chamber pressures/accuracy. Using slower burning powders than BE-86/Herco/WSF with lighter charges will result in unburnt powder and poor accuracy.

For your "minimal" 165 gr X-Treme plated load, I would suggest testing W231/HP-38/Sport Pistol and faster burning powders and "work down" from published start charges in .2-.3 gr increment until your slide won't cycle reliably.

As to your criteria of well metering powder, W231/HP-38 will meter with .1 gr variance and Sport Pistol less than .05 gr variance for me. Other small granule powders like Titegroup, N320, WST, Vectan Ba 9.5, Shooters World, Bullseye will also meter with .1 gr variance.

How light you can go will depend on the recoil spring rate of your pistol (unless you use lighter rate recoil spring).

While linked article used 3.5 gr W231 with 170/180 gr bullets, my Glocks (especially G23/G27 with new RSA) did not reliably cycle 180 gr plated bullets below 3.9 gr of W231/HP-38 using 1.130" OAL.

BTW, 3.9 gr W231/HP-38 with 180 gr plated bullet is already less than 9mm recoil load.

 

[1KPerDay]

Lightest I've tried is 140 grain MBC over 4 grains red dot. Cycles fine in all my .40s.

 

[LiveLife]

Lightest I've tried is 140 grain MBC over 4 grains red dot. Cycles fine in all my .40s.

That's good to know.

When I initially did load development for Promo using Red Dot load data, 3.5 gr produced poor accuracy with 180 gr Lead TCFP and 3.8 gr produced mild recoil with average 4" groups at 15 yards. When the powder charge was increased to 4.4 gr, group size shrank to 2.5" - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...omo-reloading-range-test.518185/#post-6509911

I did not pursue 40S&W and Promo very much further due to snappy recoil it produced even at lower charges and kept using W231/HP-38 I was happy with due to 9mm like felt recoil loads at lower charges.

I have 8 lb container of Red Dot and could repeat the testing using lighter bullets.

40S&W average shot groups with Promo:

155 FMJ/4.8 gr - 10 yard 2" - 15 yard 3" - Firm recoil
155 FMJ/5.2 gr - 10 yard 2" - 15 yard 3" - Firm recoil

180 Plated/4.5 gr - 10 yard 2" - 15 yard 2" - Firm recoil
180 Plated/4.8 gr - 10 yard 2" - 15 yard 3" - Firm recoil

180 Lead/3.5 gr - Accuracy all over the 8x11 copy paper - Light recoil
180 Lead/3.8 gr - 10 yard 3" - 15 yard 4" - Mild recoil
180 Lead/4.1 gr - 10 yard 1" - 15 yard 4" - Moderate recoil
180 Lead/4.4 gr - 10 yard 2" - 15 yard 2.5" - Firm recoil