Loaded ammo in Vibratory tumbler??

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Thats for sure, AC.

I'm still in Albuquerque right now (vacation) so I will send a PM later. Should be back in LGB middle of next week.

Talk to you soon.

LGB
 
lgbloader, while you're there you should take a drive up into Jemez. They have a restaurant with the best berry pie in the USA.
 
Per Mike at Hodgdon. Tumbling can breakdown powder composition depending on how long it's tumbled. He recommends not exceeding 15 minutes.

913-362-9455
 
Those posts on snipershide just make too much sense.

as it is with most matters, you must look to the history of a thing to understand the fear of it. the concept of tumbling loaded ammo causing powder breakdown is no myth, it is simply another problem we no longer have. just as there was a time when the corrosive nature of primers meant that to forgo cleaning your weapon thoroughly after every season was a sure recipe for a pitted barrel, there was a time when powder would actually breakdown from excessive vibration. thankfully modern powder and primer technology makes these concerns relics of the past. denigrated to hand me down fears of the previous generations. if your ammo doesn't come from some third world stockpile, tumble it all you want and you'll not see any problems. i've tumbled my own freshly loaded masterpieces for years. i've yet to see proof of any ill affect.
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C'mon! We need to FEAR unless told otherwise! No, testing on our own (like Snuffy has done and posted) CANNOT be trusted. Because we are not "them" that we take marching orders from and NEED reassurance from "them".

Justin
 
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Still no one can give ANY evidence that Smokeless powder that is degraded into a finer size drastically changes its burn rate.
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First though, the tests I did and others have done, show no degradation to start with. Powder is tough stuff. It doesn't break easily, try it sometime. Crush some. How is the force necessary to do that generated INSIDE a cartridge case while being vibrated?

Then there's those that say the retardant is removed by the abrasive action of the powder. Feel powder some powder once. It's slick stuff, especially since some of it is coated with graphite. ABRASIVE? Not in my mind.

Then there's this; How is the retardant applied to the powder granuals? Hint-hint, it's tumbled on! Tumbling might transfer some retardant from one granual to another, but remove it?

Being cautious is a very good thing. If you don't feel comfortable tumbling loaded ammo, then don't. But don't get excited telling us that do it we're going to blow something up.
 
Never heard of any ammo that'd been clunking around war campaigns for the last 6+ decades ever having a problem, I think my rounds I let polish overnight will be just fine.
 
.... I hope your getting the full benifit of our milder weather this weekend for your vacation.
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Aw, it isn't that bad. I think it was colder at the Arizona / NM border off the 40.
I am probably within 5 miles away from you right now. My Mom's house is also in Rio Rancho off of Golf Course.

Thank you for the kind words.

while you're there you should take a drive up into Jemez. They have a restaurant with the best berry pie in the USA.
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Do you know the name of the place??

I am loading up with Green New Mexico Chili right now. Bringing back a sh*tload, too.

Hope it fits with all the deer and elk I have stashed... Might be time to invest in another freezer.

It's 80 deg in so cal this last few days. You'll be happy to be home.
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There are some good things about California after all... ;)


LGB
 
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.....Its always colder through there. I am heading to Winslow This weekend I think. I left a truck there in the blizzard Dec. 6th.

I drive through that way on average once a month.

Chuck W
 
If vibration does break down powder, perhaps military loads use special mil spec powders due to the rough field handling they go through?

Has anyone compared military ammunition powder with civilian powders?

Might be interesting to find out by tumbling both loaded rounds in the same tumbler for different lengths of time.
 
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It seems like you could load some rounds, maybe with rifle powder that has a distinctive shape, then tumble some and not others. Pull the bullets, examine the powder to see if the tumbled powder has lost some integrity (ie shape/size).

It also seems like powder breakdown/ loss of retardant, would show itself on a chrony because its burn rate would be altered. So you could fire 5 non-tumbled, 5 tumbled...if the velocities aren't different then perhaps there is no degradation.

If you wanted to be a super scientist you could do a time course of tumbling, 2hr, 4hr, 8hr, 16hr and see if there is a trend towards broken down powder or change in velocity.

I'm not motivated enough though, I just wipe my ammo down.
 
Didn't read the whole thread, did ya Rich?

It seems like you could load some rounds, maybe with rifle powder that has a distinctive shape, then tumble some and not others. Pull the bullets, examine the powder to see if the tumbled powder has lost some integrity (ie shape/size).

It also seems like powder breakdown/ loss of retardant, would show itself on a chrony because its burn rate would be altered. So you could fire 5 non-tumbled, 5 tumbled...if the velocities aren't different then perhaps there is no degradation.

If you wanted to be a super scientist you could do a time course of tumbling, 2hr, 4hr, 8hr, 16hr and see if there is a trend towards broken down powder or change in velocity.

I'm not motivated enough though, I just wipe my ammo down.
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I did just what you just described. Look at post #20 on this thread, then go to the linked thread that was on here back in nov. 09. Look at my test results---Any more questions?
 
Snuffy, thanks for conducting the comprehensive tumble and bench test! From what I read so far, the powder break down problem was with the older manufactured powders and the new powders won't have this problem.

Since I use carbide dies with no case lube for reloading my pistol loads, I do not have the need to tumble after loading. But as many have mentioned, this topic will continue to resurface over and over.

Excerpts from other threads regarding tumbling loaded rounds:

"Here's some 4350 powder that was loaded in IIRC 30-06 cases. One was a once fired case, the other was new. Notice the new case shows no breakdown of the powder granules. These were tumbled in a vibratory tumbler for 5 hours.

... I looked at it with a 10X magnifier, the powder looked the same even after 15 hours!

I also fired shells at 2,5,10 and 15 hours, five shots each, at targets, and over my chrono at the same time. Also a control set of rounds was not tumbled. Accuracy actually got better. Seeing no difference in powder appearance, I stopped tumbling at 15 hours.

I almost stopped the test after firing the 2 hr. shells. The velocity jumped about 700 fps in three of the five shots! It was high noon on a cloudless day, I believe I was getting some bullet glint, triggering the stop screen early. I took a break and discussed it with a shooting buddy. He said I was crazy if I continued the test. Well the appearance of the cases, and the recoil convinced me there was no problems. No primer flattening, and normal bolt lift. The next 5 were at 5 hours, they were the same area that the control group were reading. And the 10 hr. and 15 hours as well!

snuffy"


http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=489229&highlight=tumbling+loaded



"I was involved in some testing for this in the 80s at the Remington plant here in Lonoke. Ammo was tumbled in both vibratory and cylinder tumblers for 96 hrs. There was no powder breakdown under a microscope and velocity and pressure measures were the same as the untumbled control ammo. That was enough proof for me. And no one has EVER shown ANY proof that tumbling degrades powder.

cpermd"

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1386281&page=2
 
For the folks that tumble live ammo: do you use a different media to clean the lube off loaded ammo versus the initial deprimed brass case tumbling? Just wondering.
 
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