loading 357 for rifles

[SSN Vet]

Are .357 magnum loads for use in a lever action rifle any different than the loads for use in a revolver?

If so, where can the rifle loads be found?

I've heard people on the rifle country forum state (as if it was widely accepted) that the .357 cartridge gives similar performance to the .30-30 cartridge out of lever actions.

I'm scratching my head over this one.......

It doesn't seem like an apples to apples comparison to take load data tested in a 4" or 6" revolver and compare it to load data tested in a 18" rifle.

I shoot a .357 revolvers (6.5") and a .30-30 (20") and based solely on felt recoil & report there's no comparison.

 

[cobra1414]

buffalo bore ammo has some good rifle load data on its site, vs. pistol

ammo is the same, except no fmj or pointed tip stuff

30-06? not a chance

 

[hoghunting]

Back in the 70's some of the manuals had a little different loading for the 357rifle than the pistol. Most of the powder companies now use the same load info for both.

 

[JJE]

For a handgun, you can get by with a "fast" powder loading .357, but for a rifle, you absolutely want to use a "slower" powder. Example: You can find lots of .357 loading data for Win231, but you wouldn't get maximum performance out of a rifle-length barrel with 231 - you'd want to use something like Win296 or Alliant 2400, and even these probably won't get you top performance.

Some manuals (I think Speer #13) have a separate .357 chapter for rifles.

 

[Uncle Don]

I agree completely with JJE. You don't really get any value with a fast burning powder in a rifle. I prefer Blue Dot for rifle as it's a much slower powder and gives good velocity from a rifle. Use it in handgun loads and you get a good ball of fire, but it's only because the majority of the powder burned outside the muzzle where it didn't do any good but give a light show.

 

[Steve H]

I think the Lyman 47th edition has what you wnat to know.

 

[SSN Vet]

here's what I fount on the Hodgdon load pages.....

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

in .30-30
you can push a 150gr bullet with 30.5 gr of H4895 and get 2,390 fps

(not to mention the performance obtainable when Leverolution bullets are available to reloaders)

or....

in .357 (pulled off the RIFLE load page)
you can push a 150 gr bullet with 16.5 gr of H4227 and get 1,775 fps

is it just me, or does this not sound like "equivalent performance"?

 

[Brian Williams]

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.



Get some Lil'Gun and reload some 158gr LSWC with Gas Checks(must use either Hard cast or gas checks). load up some with 18 grs of Lil' Gun and watch what happens. Or try some 180Gr with 15gr of Lil'gun. These actually have some kick in my Marlin 1894C and shoot like a house afire in my S&W 65.

 

[GooseGestapo]

You get a 500-600fps increase in velocity going from the 4-6"bbl handgun to the 20" rifle barrel with the slower burning powders of the heavier bulleted loads from the .357mag.. Since muzzle energy (Kinetic energy) increases by a square function, a modest increase in velocity nets a substantial increase in energy.

For instance, I get about 1,375fps from my 4" Ruger Sec.6 with 17.8gr of Hod. LilGun under a 158gr jacketed soft point. Run it through my Winchester M94 with a 20" bbl. and it gets 2,050fps.

Consider that most factory ammo in .30/30 with a 150gr bullet chrono's at 2,250fps from my 20"bbl Marlin Mod. 336. (Handloads can safely exceed 2,400fps with Reloader 15).

The larger bullet diameter of the .357 offsets the slight velocity difference. The much more frangible nature of the .357" bullets intended for handguns also gives both a larger temporary and permanent would cavity. (though typically less overall penetration)
Consider that you typically get 14-17" of penetration with the .357 in rifles, and 24-28" with the .30/30 (In deer, not ballistic gellatin- I see many more deer running around than cannisters of ballistic gel, hence I shoot deer.........) A typical whitetail deer measures about 10-12" through the ribs, so with an average shot placement you get complete penetration with the .357, and occasionally I nail two deer with one shot from the .30/30. (we have very generous limits and long seasons in the sunny south)

The .357 does lose out to the .30/30 as the distance increases because of the slightly higher muzzle velocity and the significantly higher sectional density and ballistic coefficients of the .308" bullets. Inside of 100yds, the advantage goes to the .357mag. Having killed a fair number of deer with both, I can attest to this.

Factor in reloading for the .30/30 as well, and the excellently constructed bullets (such as the Remington CorLokts), I agree, the .30/30 is somewhat better, but you -"Ain't exactly tossing nerf balls"- with the .357.

It's just that the .357mag from a rifle is somewhat better than we had always been lead to believe when fed some of the better bullet/loads available today.

Things change.
Learn how to manage change !!!!
Change "can" be good.............

 

[Ben Shepherd]

As Mr. Williams noted, with a little pushing the 357 in a rifle can, in fact, come close to the 30-30 in the *thump* factor.

Effective range will still be shorter with the 357 though, due to the bullets offered for that caliber having much worse ballistic coefficiency.

Two things to remember when loading 357 in a rifle:

1. A slow powder for that caliber is best for maximum preformance.
2. C.O.L. is much more critical with a lever action rifle than with a revolver.

 

[115grfmj]

Ditto on the Lil'Gun

Also chronied the buffalo bore stuff (158Grs + 180grs), and it does do what it promises (wonder what powder they use, Hmm....). My pet commercial load is
Sellier & Bellot 158grjsp, this gets an average of 1850fps out of my Marlin 1894c. The same load yeilds around 1250-1300 out of my 686.

With the 180gr BB stuff, I have gotten complet penetration of a 300ish florida hog