junkman_01
member
myke,
Some people shouldn't be ALLOWED to work on guns!
Some people shouldn't be ALLOWED to work on guns!
loading lever latch
- Thread starter kameron1858
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kameron1858
Member
"Putting the dovetail in exactly the right place" is the only part I'm worried about and as for gun smiths they are few and far between around here the closest one to me is 70 plus years old and just quit doing and real smithing beacuse of a stroke 
junkman01 - Yes, and some people shouldn't be allowed to use computers, either, but it's not up to me to judge that. What we can do is help those who want to take the step. I was there once, too, and I've boogered up a couple of nice guns in my time.
IF the epoxy doesn't work, and IF you don't want to take the trouble to look up a gunsmith (many will take mail orders so they don't need to be in the next county or closer), buy a short piece of 3/4" or 1" galvanized pipe, get out your hacksaw and files and start practicing - make your first mistakes on something cheap.
IF the epoxy doesn't work, and IF you don't want to take the trouble to look up a gunsmith (many will take mail orders so they don't need to be in the next county or closer), buy a short piece of 3/4" or 1" galvanized pipe, get out your hacksaw and files and start practicing - make your first mistakes on something cheap.
Smokin'Joe
Member
Practice on water pipe. Good Idea!
arcticap
Member
That's a good idea mykeal.
Natural gas pipe is made of thicker wrought steel that's black.
http://www.acehardware.com/info/index.jsp?categoryId=1267591
Natural gas pipe is made of thicker wrought steel that's black.
http://www.acehardware.com/info/index.jsp?categoryId=1267591
kameron1858
Member
thats what i was thinking to. I picked up some industrial epoxy just for metal it says good for up to 3300lbs of pulling force and hight temp resistant so we will see how that works. I also picked up a 32t hacksaw blade flat file and 60 deg triangle file just in case. I have always been more of a nut and bolt guy then a fab guy but working on the farm has got me more comfortible fabing things up. only thing is working on the manure spreader is a little different than working on my guns
BHP FAN
Member
I'd get out the water pipe and practice then. My prediction? Glue [OK, epoxy] isn't going to hold the latch lug for any length of time.
arcticap
Member
Since it was removed with only manual effort was the part simply a press fit from the factory?
How difficult was it to remove?
For most every Pietta 1858 the factory installed part would have lasted a lifetime without ever coming out or loosening up on it's own.
How difficult was it to remove?
For most every Pietta 1858 the factory installed part would have lasted a lifetime without ever coming out or loosening up on it's own.
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kameron1858
Member
I think it was silver solderd in it was verry hard to get off
Yes, but working on the manure spreader isn't much different than using the internet....
One last bit of advice about working on your own guns: I once asked a well-known gunmaker who did beautiful work if he ever felt bad about selling his hard work, and he said, "No. In fact, I didn't build any of the guns I own. I know where the mistakes are on the ones I build." This from a guy who had many prizes and was considered a top craftsman. The moral of the story is that, unless you do a really bad job of it, and you won't if you practice, only you will know what errors you make on the real thing. And if you don't tell us, we won't know how bad you think you did.
kameron1858
Member
thats the thing i dont want to know where the mistakes are on my gun i want to think its perfect loljunkman_01
member
Then quit your bellyaching and let a gunsmith do it already! Jeez. :banghead:
black_powder_Rob
Member
I think that guns with some imperfections have character.
Wanted to add that the imperfections I am talking about usually come from normal wear.
Wanted to add that the imperfections I am talking about usually come from normal wear.
BCRider
Member
Late to the party but here's my take on things.
Epoxy works best when there's lots of edges to hold onto. So coarsly scuffing up both surfaces will give a better bond. Also the areas will need to be totally degreased to a "T".
Having said this epoxy only forms a mechanical bond. Over time the use of oils, any cleaning solvents and warm water we use to wash away the BP residue will likely take its toll. So don't be surprised if the mount falls off some day. Especially since the primary load direction will be direct tension instead of shear.
Because of this and the fact that I'd want to only do such a job ONE time I'd likely go with either soldering or the dovetail.
Solder comes in a huge array of types from soft electronics solder that would not in any way harm the blueing up to silver brazing which requires a dull red hot heat to bond well and would obviously totally burn away any blueing. In between you'll find some manner of solder that has a good balance of strength and required heat. And likely it would hold a good fitting latch just fine and not result in any damage to the blueing around the latch. I'd trust a good solder far more than I'd trust an epoxy.
Finally there's the filed in dovetail option. There's a number of tricks you can do to do the job in ways that are just as good as a milling machine. It involves setting the barrel down between two supporting rails which act as file stops for cutting the depth of the dovetail. The stops, and some skill, will produce an accurate and flat base for the dovetail slot. The initial "hogging out" would be done using a square file. Then I'd cut the undercuts using a smaller triangle die sinker (straight sided instead of tapered) file that I put a safe edge onto one face. The safe edge would be down so the depth does not increase and I'd cut into the sides to produce the undercut while resting the safe edge against the depth stops. Along the way I'd check frequently and adjust cutting to the fore or back undercuts to shift the latch fore or aft as needed so it moves to a position that will mate up with the loading lever catch and comes out "just right".
Such "filing rests" were common fixtures way back when and something you'd find many of for doing various operations in any good machinist's shop. The design and use of such filing rests is identical to the stoning jigs used for doing various trigger jobs and such by gunsmiths. I like the idea of such a jig over the purely hand operation shown in the Midway video. For a one time use a jig of this sort doesn't even need to be anything all that fancy. A block of hardwood with a slot to hold the gun's barrel steady and that is clamped in a vise would do the job. Files cut wood so slow and poor that it would easily produce a "good enough" job on such a one off.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W60yBwzipKA&playnext=1&list=PLC3AA68115468CF99
Epoxy works best when there's lots of edges to hold onto. So coarsly scuffing up both surfaces will give a better bond. Also the areas will need to be totally degreased to a "T".
Having said this epoxy only forms a mechanical bond. Over time the use of oils, any cleaning solvents and warm water we use to wash away the BP residue will likely take its toll. So don't be surprised if the mount falls off some day. Especially since the primary load direction will be direct tension instead of shear.
Because of this and the fact that I'd want to only do such a job ONE time I'd likely go with either soldering or the dovetail.
Solder comes in a huge array of types from soft electronics solder that would not in any way harm the blueing up to silver brazing which requires a dull red hot heat to bond well and would obviously totally burn away any blueing. In between you'll find some manner of solder that has a good balance of strength and required heat. And likely it would hold a good fitting latch just fine and not result in any damage to the blueing around the latch. I'd trust a good solder far more than I'd trust an epoxy.
Finally there's the filed in dovetail option. There's a number of tricks you can do to do the job in ways that are just as good as a milling machine. It involves setting the barrel down between two supporting rails which act as file stops for cutting the depth of the dovetail. The stops, and some skill, will produce an accurate and flat base for the dovetail slot. The initial "hogging out" would be done using a square file. Then I'd cut the undercuts using a smaller triangle die sinker (straight sided instead of tapered) file that I put a safe edge onto one face. The safe edge would be down so the depth does not increase and I'd cut into the sides to produce the undercut while resting the safe edge against the depth stops. Along the way I'd check frequently and adjust cutting to the fore or back undercuts to shift the latch fore or aft as needed so it moves to a position that will mate up with the loading lever catch and comes out "just right".
Such "filing rests" were common fixtures way back when and something you'd find many of for doing various operations in any good machinist's shop. The design and use of such filing rests is identical to the stoning jigs used for doing various trigger jobs and such by gunsmiths. I like the idea of such a jig over the purely hand operation shown in the Midway video. For a one time use a jig of this sort doesn't even need to be anything all that fancy. A block of hardwood with a slot to hold the gun's barrel steady and that is clamped in a vise would do the job. Files cut wood so slow and poor that it would easily produce a "good enough" job on such a one off.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W60yBwzipKA&playnext=1&list=PLC3AA68115468CF99
kameron1858
Member
well VTI and DGW are both out of stock on the latch but I didnt cancel my order. I used the Epoxy for now. I closed the loading lever and tried as hard a I could to pop the post out and its still in thare If it comes out before I can get the new latch I might try some solder
kameron1858
Member
well epoxy is crap the post blew off the first shot today go figure. I called vti today they said at least 6 weeks on the latch
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kameron1858
Member
wow noone has this darn part i tried DGW VTI and NUMRICH anyone here know whare i can get one before the end of April?
arcticap
Member
That's too bad. At least you still have some options.
kameron1858
Member
mission accomplished thank you Taylor's!!!
Forgive my ignorance but could someone post an explanation as why the latch post was removed in the first place. I'm not familiar with a Kirst ejector nor how it mounts on an 1858. I think HH pointed out that the proper proceedure is to unscrew the barrel a bit to temporarily get the latch post out of the way. A picture would be most helpful here to give us a visual.
Another question I would have is how was the latch post removed in the first place? Heat to melt the solder?
Another question I would have is how was the latch post removed in the first place? Heat to melt the solder?
kameron1858
Member
the post was removed because on the 5 1/2 barrel you cant remove the cylinder pin with out removing the post. the ejector comes welded to a new cylinder pin thats why i had to remove the post. and for your last question ViceGrips. I know i did it wrong now but I thought I could just solder it back in good as new. but i guess to solder it right you need to get the metal dull orange hot and then would need to reblue the barrel. I'll just cut a dovetail instead. all this could have been avoided had I thought to turn the barrel instead of ripping the post off like a big dummy:banghead:
Oh, didn't know that the ejector is attached to a new cylinder pin that replaces the old one.
Did you call a gunsmith just for grins to see what he charges to cut the dovetail in install the new latch post? I was thinking about having a latch post installed for the Walker and have the gunsmith also install the latch/spring on the lever.
Did you call a gunsmith just for grins to see what he charges to cut the dovetail in install the new latch post? I was thinking about having a latch post installed for the Walker and have the gunsmith also install the latch/spring on the lever.
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