Locking doors when pulled over

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This thread has been enlightening and I'm changing my attitude a bit. I might modify the way I respond to LEO when stopped. Rolling the window down just a couple inches instead of all the way down seems like a good idea as does removing and pocketing the keys then discretely locking the door if asked to exit the vehicle. But I'd leave the window down just those two inches so I don't seem paranoid about it... that's more of a psychological thing, I guess. The window wouldn't be down far enough allow them quick/easy access for an illegal search anyway.
 
Discussions like this are useful, but I'm wondering...how does one gain experience in responding to getting pulled over? Why would would one want to? As noted by Friendly, wouldn't it just be better to avoid doing those things that get one pulled over?
yes ide imagine it would......but in todays world....you can be pulled over for just about anything.


In any case, many would deem it unwise to engage in any sort of "I know my rights" demonstration during a traffic stop. Cooperate, observe the officer's behavior, and note his or her badge number if you think something's amiss. Take it up later with the Department. You might not get anywhere, but you certainly won't get anywhere during the stop. Well, maybe jail

well its always wise to cooperate with the officer.....

but as a matter "i know my rights".....ide imagine that would depend on the current situation...and just how invasive the officer wanted to get.

if youre on your way to disney world with 2 hrs to closing time and a car full of screaming kids, and the officer just wanted something mundaine.....then yes, its probably easier to just give him what he wants and be done with it...

but if you happen to be on your way to have a friendly visit with your lawyer....and you get pulled over, and he wants to search your person/ car....wants all sorts of info.....ect ect... without cause......then i wouldnt be so adverse to "flexing your rights" so to speak.
 
"how does one gain experience in responding to getting pulled over?"

I learned from others, it was lot cheaper than getting tickets. My father was a state trooper and his cousin was the county sheriff.
 
There is nothing in my car that would be construed as illegal in any way, shape or form.

This is the naive answer often given, but is dangerously wrong. There doesn’t have to be anything illegal in your car, there need only be something that could be used for illegal purposes. The powder scale you’re loaning to a friend- it’s for measuring illegal narcotics, which makes you a dealer. Do you know how illegal drugs are produced? If the spring from a ballpoint pen is used in the manufacture of meth (hypothetically) then the one that you lost under the seat can give the cop PC to search even more thoroughly, and even arrest you.

A woman driving through (I think it was Georgia) was pulled over for “erratic lane travel” and her car searched. The officer noticed a cover-plate that hides the fuel tank connections was missing (left off by the mechanic), decided she could have used that space for transporting drugs, and not only arrested her, but confiscated her car. The police know the law- anything used in the production or distribution of drugs can be confiscated and sold; the money buys new police equipment. They have a motive for searching.

I always love how people buy the lane, “Would you mind if I had a look through your car?” It’s leading right from the beginning. You may not mind, but you should never consent. He isn’t searching your car for your benefit. He will never say, “Sir, I noticed your seatbelt it a little frayed down here at the bottom, better get that checked”. He’s looking for anything that, given the time or place, provides the nexus to illegal activity. No officer gets points on his performance report for how many frayed seatbelts they found, or burned wires on your power seats; they get high marks for making arrests. So if his motive is to arrest you, and he has made it plain to you that he wants to try, why would you help?!
 
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The last time I was pulled over it was late at night. I was coming back from a basketball game with my daughter. Cop pulls me over. We put on the interior light and put the windows down.

Cop saw nothing was amiss, told me where the speed limit change was and where another was. ("be sure to slow down, we are working that section of highway too") Probably was looking for drunk drivers.

No warning...just a "good night".

Another time I took a wrong turn and ended up in a housing area. Cop pulled me over for allegedly running a stop sign. (It was actually a skin tone thing. Wrong color guy in the 'hood)

In that case I stepped out of the car while he ran my license (the real reason for the stop). I locked the car and put the keys in my pocket. Doubt he noticed but again...I handled it smoothly, without drama. In the end I got directions and a friendly wave.

While these discussions are good, most of the time, if it is going to go bad it is either A-inevitable or B- helped along by the motorist not being smart.

Know your rights, know the proper verbiage ("reasonable articulated suspicion" for a search), be ready to mention in a non threatening way that you have legal representation "("I wouldn't care if you searched but my wife is an attorney and she would ride me like a rented mule")

But whatever you do, don't fuel the situation with attitude or anger
 
"how does one gain experience in responding to getting pulled over?"

In my case, it took a long rural commute, and a lack of appreciation for speed limits.

I've been pulled over five times with my pistol; since I am in a "must inform" state, that is what I have done. It has only been an issue once... I got the "step out of the car, I'm taking your gun to run an illegal search on it" routine once.

Basically, they are going to do what they want to do. If you get violated badly enough, lawyer up and sue them... what else are you going to do?

I don't see how locking your doors would prevent anything. If they want in the car, they are just going to ask you to unlock it.

IMHO, it doesn't matter what the Supreme Court says. The S-C is not standing in front of you with a .40 S&W in his holster with everyone in his department willing to back him up. I'm NOT implying that most LEO exhibit rogue behavior. I'm say SOME do and, if they try to search without permission or do anything else out of the ordinary then the one in front of you, with a .40 S&W in his holster, is exhibiting rogue tendencies. Antagonize him at your own risk.

There is still a pretty big difference between rogue behavior, and murdering motorists on camera on the side of the road... is that what you are insunuating? Cop has a .40? Great, I have a 9mm. Who cares.
 
I try my best to not get pulled over in the first place, then I don't need to wonder if I should lock my doors. Personally, I would not lock my car doors if I were asked to step out of the car. There is nothing in my car that would be construed as illegal in any way, shape or form.

The guy last week who did your annual car inspection accidently had a "seed" fall out of his pocket when testing your brakes. Try telling officer Roscoe that it's not yours. Or that long blade fillet knife that was in your trunk from your past fishing trip with no other fishing gear. Maybe that still has fish blood on it.

The 4th Amendment of the Consititution ratified 15 December 1791 says, "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Our forefathers were genius. :)
 
@Davek1977 They brought the dog in later into this incident. The cops nor the dog that trashed my truck found anything. But they were kind enough to leave dog hair, ripped leather and scratched paint on my truck.
 
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There is still a pretty big difference between rogue behavior, and murdering motorists on camera on the side of the road... is that what you are insunuating? Cop has a .40? Great, I have a 9mm. Who cares.

No, I'm not talking about murder. I'm talking about those few LEO's who, for whatever reason, have an attitude. What I'm saying is don't "cop" an attitude with a cop... especially one who is already agitated. If the LEO wants to "get you" then he already has a plan and everything he needs to do so and make it stick. Being uncooperative will only make matters worse in many cases. Like it or not, we are at their mercy whether they're playing "good cop or bad cop".
 
If the police want to search your car, all they have to do is call out a drug dog, and then lie and say the dog hit on your car. This gives them the right to search your vehicle without consent. This has actually happened to me, which leads me to believe that it's a not uncommon occurrence.
 
If the police want to search your car, all they have to do is call out a drug dog, and then lie and say the dog hit on your car. This gives them the right to search your vehicle without consent. This has actually happened to me, which leads me to believe that it's a not uncommon occurrence.

now heres the question.......do you have to stay and wait for the drug dog...?

unless you are being detained or arrested......you should be free to leave....

and they cant detain you without a reason......

and they wont have a reason without a drug dog.......

also.....wouldnt they still need a warrant to search your car?

unless i am missing something here?


it sounds to me as though you got snookered into an unjust search......
 
it sounds to me as though you got snookered into an unjust search......

the problem is, the unjust search has to occur, and then a judge has to declare it unjust.

As someone said above, if they want to detain you, they are going to detain you. Isn't that a beauty? Your rights have to be violated before anyone can say that your rights are being violated, up until then it is all just "police procedure"
 
I would say that locking the door behind you might or might not be a smart and effective thing to do, depending on the circumstances of being ordered out of the car. Sometimes if it is cold or raining or something, the cop will order you out and have you sit in his car while he checks your papers. In this case, it would be fine to lock your car... it would be more of a precaution than anything.

However, I have been pulled over several times with guns in plain view in my car, which makes some cops jumpy. In these situations, the cop ordered me out of the car very sternly with his hand on his gun, and told me to keep my hands where he could see them. As soon as I was out, he would handcuff me, take me to the back of the car, and search me. He would usually then seize the gun without permission, search it to find the s/n, and radio it in to dispatch.

In this situation, if you tried to roll up your window and lock your doors as you were getting out, the cop would probably order you to stop. When a cop is this jumpy and has his hand on his gun, it might not be the smartest thing to do things other than what he is telling you to do, or to disobey any of his orders. But even if you did lock the car, the next thing he is going to do is to handcuff you and pat you down. If he is already bound and determined to search your car without his permission, his next move would just be to take your keys out of your pocket and unlock it himself. At this point, you resist him at your own risk. In this situation, it seems like locking the car would not be likely to prevent a search from taking place, and would only serve to enrage the cop, who is probably already pumping a lot of adrenaline.

Also, locking the car really has no legal significance... it just puts up a practical barrier that might make it so much of a PITA to execute a search that the cop doesn't do it. It also might make a cop think better of executing an illegal search. But the Supreme Court cases on the motor vehicle exigency and the Terry line of cases do not make any distinction about whether the vehicle is locked or not. If the cops have a legal justification to search the car, they can do so whether it is locked or not. If you refuse to unlock it, they can gain entry with whatever means are available to them.

Incidentally, searches based on the mere presence of a weapon are unconstitutional. In a state where the ownership and transportation of weapons is perfectly legal, the presence of a weapon does not constitute reasonable suspicion or probable cause of a crime being committed. Also, to conduct a search/seizure under the Terry line of cases, the cop must have reasonable suspicion, based on specific and articulable facts, that the suspect is both ARMED and DANGEROUS. Obviously the "armed" part is met, since you have a weapon sitting there within your immediate reach, but the "dangerous" part requires a lot more than just an average joe on a traffic stop. The cop would need something else, such as the fact that you are a known gang member, or if you look like you are casing a joint for a robbery, or match the description of a fugitive, or if you just tried to elude the cop, or if you were acting very irately.

Apparently it is a common practice for cops to seize and search guns without the owner's permission on traffic stops though. I don't know if they are teaching them that this is OK in police academy or what, but it seems like some lawsuits are in order to get this practice stopped. I think next time a cop seizes my property and searches it in such a manner, I will file a lawsuit. I am a lawyer, so who better?
 
do you have to stay and wait for the drug dog

no you don't...but most people just wait anyway...they don't realize they can leave.

ask "am I free to leave?"

If they say "no" they have to give you a reason for detaining you.

If they call the drug dog...you call a friend with a video camera...bad cops (heck...all cops) hate video cameras
 
Well since post #28 was directed at me, Hoofan, can you kindly explain to me without one wit of evidence I could get anything at all to stick on the cop??
This aint got jack to do about"fighting for your rights" in the pre cell phone days of the 1980's when the police had far wider net to use at their discretion.
 
I don't see how locking your doors would prevent anything. If they want in the car, they are just going to ask you to unlock it.

If they ask, you may decline. Period.
If they have PC, they will search w/o your permission. Period.
That's how it works.

There is no benefit to inviting potential drama into your life.
As stated above, they are not searching, or asking to search, for your benefit.

You do not have to be a d^@k about it, as mentioned, just say, "my lawyer would be miffed if I let you search w/o a reason".

p
 
Well since post #28 was directed at me, Hoofan, can you kindly explain to me without one wit of evidence I could get anything at all to stick on the cop??
This aint got jack to do about"fighting for your rights" in the pre cell phone days of the 1980's when the police had far wider net to use at their discretion.

You can do whatever you like, it is your life afterall, but just because you don't have evidence doesn't mean you can't file a complaint. Filing a protest doesn't always have to be about actually getting the process resolved, it can also be about starting a paper trail, or making superiors aware of what is going on.

Maybe as many police superiors have been known to do, they would have sided with the officer. Maybe they would have had a chat with the officer and told him to tone it down.

If everyone keeps it to themselves just because they have no evidence, the situation certainly will never be resolved.
 
Back a few years ago my girlfriend's daughter asked if she could drive my BMW M3. I said sure. I got in the passenger seat. We went for a ride.
She was doing the speed limit then next thing we know light and siren and she gets pulled over. yes we ahd been exercising the car the way BMW intended it to be but there were no cops around.

Fairfax County Police Officer comes to the window and ask for license and registration which she gives him. I am scrounched down in the passenger seat with my hoodie hiding my face and hands in my pocket. She asks why she was pulled over. Officer says he had a report that the car was stolen. I then chimed in No it isnt. He said who are you I said the car's owner punk! And gave him my license and said notice name matches the one on the registration little boy. He said car was reported stolen. I said no it wasnt and this is the one and only one in this color in the world since the BMW Individual program did this color for me. He asked me to exit the car I said no and I would appreciate it if you get your supervisor here immediately. He said sir you need to exit the car I said No. Language cleaned up to make mods happy. Supervisor gets there and comes to my window ask if I will exit the car I say no. We chat. He comes back gives my license back to me and the registration to my girlfriend's daughter with her license. He says I expect to be hearing from your lawyer about this I said yes sir you will. I then heard him reaming Officer Dunkin out. County settled out of court. Officer is unemployed

My girlfriend's daughter is African American/Latina. She was pulled over for DWB( Driving While Black). I am white. It does happen. Officer was white and he wasnt looking for a piece. Some of you white boys need to realize stuff like this still happens. My CIO is an African American male and he gets pulled over a few times a quarter. All are recorded.

I was once pulled over sir we got you on laser doing 87mph. How fast were you going sir. Duh officer its the end of the month and you set up your speed trap here the same day at the same time. I was doing the speed limit. What's that under tarp in the back of pick up sir? A dead bodiesI said as I pulled away. Actually there were two dead sheep I was hauling to friend to be butchered to feed his dogs.
 
As noted by Friendly, wouldn't it just be better to avoid doing those things that get one pulled over?

Sounds good in theory :)

Some of us live in cars, I know I do. I'm on the road from Dallas to Ft Worth to Houston, San Antonio, Austin. something like that nearly every week.

Truth is it's just a matter of time before I am caught a few miles an hour over the speed limit, expired inspection because I haven't had time yet, broken tail light from truck gravel (that was my last LE experience), or any other number of administrative traffic nonsense that puts me in contact with an LEO.

And, at least in my experience, 99% of the time it's a generally no hassle pleasant experience. And I violate my "don't inform" rule 100% of the time if it's a Texas State Trooper because my experience with them has been perfect with a CHL involved. I couldn't have asked for better treatment from this particular LE organization. However, City of Houston is the opposite, City of Austin is so-so.

So yeah it would be nice to avoid attracting LE interest, but sometimes it just happens. I work for a company that deals with telephone equipment and sometimes I am in neighborhoods I would very much NOT like to be in the middle of the night because a lot of central offices are there. Nice vehicle in "certain" parts of town at 2am pretty much begs to be pulled over.

"Can I ask why you are in this neighborhood at this time of night?" is a question I've heard quite often in Houston and Austin.
 
I realize none of us can do anything can be 100% sure of avoiding a traffic stop. I've had a few myself, but each time I was doing something that warranted the stop and which I could have chosen not to do.
 
Guy,you wont get any traction around here with that course of action unless you have some really solid evidence on your side.
That's why you use a voice recorder.

The FIRST app I installed on my Android phone was Cop Recorder 2.
 
I realize none of us can do anything can be 100% sure of avoiding a traffic stop. I've had a few myself, but each time I was doing something that warranted the stop and which I could have chosen not to do.
My best friend's wife was pulled over taking me to the Amtrak station about 3:00am. The cop said she was "weaving". She wasn't. It was a lie. He was probably just trolling for drunks.
 
now heres the question.......do you have to stay and wait for the drug dog...?

unless you are being detained or arrested......you should be free to leave....
My lawyer practically says, "Am I free to leave, Officer?" in his sleep.

It makes them cut bait or fish. Combined with recording, it's a VERY powerful defense to abuse.
 
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