That reminds me... I was going to send off a donation to the California Rifle and Pistol Association.
If you haven't already, *PLEASE* join!
http://www.crpa.org/
Tim
If you haven't already, *PLEASE* join!
http://www.crpa.org/
Tim
Lockyer Wants Handgun Ammo Branded
- Thread starter Deathwind
- Start date
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Waitone
Member
And just what is Lockyer's plan supposed to accomplish?
Seems to me ballistic fingerprinting tanked so now plan B is dusted off.
I still don't understand what the plan is supposed to do.
Seems to me ballistic fingerprinting tanked so now plan B is dusted off.
I still don't understand what the plan is supposed to do.
Sistema1927
Member
This is not about combatting crime.
It is another end-around attempt to penalize firearms owners by making "legal" ammunition prohibitively expensive. Just how much is a box of this ammo going to cost? $50? $75? $100?
Never mind that it will be impossible to stem the flow of "illegal" ammunition coming into the state (How difficult is it to get cocaine in LA?).
Another example of the fact that common sense isn't.
It is another end-around attempt to penalize firearms owners by making "legal" ammunition prohibitively expensive. Just how much is a box of this ammo going to cost? $50? $75? $100?
Never mind that it will be impossible to stem the flow of "illegal" ammunition coming into the state (How difficult is it to get cocaine in LA?).
Another example of the fact that common sense isn't.
Cosmoline
Member
His plan is supposed to make it impossible to buy ammunition in California, what else? These people aren't as stupid as they appear. None of them seriously thinks "smart gun" technology or bullet "fingerprinting" is going to work. They view the measures as giving a death of a thousand cuts to gun ownership.
2nd Amendment
member
I want Lockyer branded.
I'm taking suggestions on what to brand him AS...
I'm taking suggestions on what to brand him AS...
Deavis
Member
Why don't gun companies just boycott California? So what if you lose a revenue, the wake-up call to those people who think the rest of us "live in an alternate world" would be well worth it. I just got back from a trip there and other than the weather being nice, I still think the Bay area is a cesspool of sprawl matching Houston and then they have those sorry right hand freeway entrances!
Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
Suddenly, the entire point behind this scheme becomes apparent: more leftist extremist anti-Second Amendment bigotry from the People's Republic of California.
For that matter, what about frangible handgun ammo?
(Hmm, maybe Jamie and Adam of Mythbusters should check out the feasibility of serial numbers micro-etched onto "ice bullets" and "meat bullets".
)-twency
________________
How many of you believe in telekinesis? Raise my hand...
El Rojo
Member
Good luck finding a complete piece of a V-Max bullet.
wolf
Member
i feel safer already..
so mark ridley thomas (LA politician)is doing backflips..he submits a bill almost every year for a per bullet tax..now he can team up with this new idea and add his bill with it...its only a matter of time before it passes..who cares how much a box of ammo is anyway...another sin tax..like smoking & liquor...if you dont drink or smoke what do you care how much it costs to buy a six pack...
will other states adopt this method...bet to it...and bet heavy
of course it dosent have to make sence...it has to make $$
wolf
so mark ridley thomas (LA politician)is doing backflips..he submits a bill almost every year for a per bullet tax..now he can team up with this new idea and add his bill with it...its only a matter of time before it passes..who cares how much a box of ammo is anyway...another sin tax..like smoking & liquor...if you dont drink or smoke what do you care how much it costs to buy a six pack...
will other states adopt this method...bet to it...and bet heavy
of course it dosent have to make sence...it has to make $$
wolf
erikm
Member
If this 
ever goes through I predict quite a number of people will become very interested in things like combustable cased or (especially) caseless frangible ammunition. Dynamit Nobel, could you please start the production lines?
I think that whoever thought this up watched the court scene in Judge Dredd once too many times before feeding the tripe to Lockyer.
Cheers,
ErikM
ever goes through I predict quite a number of people will become very interested in things like combustable cased or (especially) caseless frangible ammunition. Dynamit Nobel, could you please start the production lines? I think that whoever thought this up watched the court scene in Judge Dredd once too many times before feeding the tripe to Lockyer.
Cheers,
ErikM
Shalako
Member
I want to know how much money Lockyer wasted on this POS study!!!
We barely have enough money in this state to conduct vital public safety projects on flood control and infrastructure. I get the third degree every year on my funding requests for essential flood system upgrades and this douchebag flings money around willy-nilly studying hair-brained schemes to track freaking projectiles?!? ***'nF?
What a complete tool!!
:banghead:
We barely have enough money in this state to conduct vital public safety projects on flood control and infrastructure. I get the third degree every year on my funding requests for essential flood system upgrades and this douchebag flings money around willy-nilly studying hair-brained schemes to track freaking projectiles?!? ***'nF?
What a complete tool!!
:banghead:
Ewok
Member
The good news is Lockyer is on his second and last term as AG. The bad news is he has two years left.
Kamicosmos
Member
Anybody else worried about this statement:
Uh....so if Joe Smoe, law-abiding handload, gets caught with his handloads, which were not marked at the Factory in Berlin, and he has no papers to show....he gets sent to prison?
Uh.....
Uh....so if Joe Smoe, law-abiding handload, gets caught with his handloads, which were not marked at the Factory in Berlin, and he has no papers to show....he gets sent to prison?
Uh.....
Brett Bellmore
Member
Exactly; But it goes further than that... That brick of .22 in your closet becomes contraband, if it doesn't have the markings. Why grandfather it in, when ammo has such a short shelf life anyway? And when the manufacturers decide that it just doesn't pay to set up parallel production and inventory systems for every round they produce... Suddenlly a lot of gun owners who never even considered handloading find that there isn't ANY legal ammo for their guns.
deej
Member
The company's web site leads the reader to believe that ALL testing was done on...CHIPPED RUBBER TIRES. There isn't any mention of test results on body armor, ballistic gelatin, or anything else. Just CHIPPED RUBBER TIRES.
Of course, one test did feature a seven-inch cardboard box filled with newspaper in front of the CHIPPED RUBBER TIRES; nevertheless...
Of course, one test did feature a seven-inch cardboard box filled with newspaper in front of the CHIPPED RUBBER TIRES; nevertheless...
Jim March
Member
This is DOA. Ain't NO way this is going to fly. It's pure grandstanding.
Let's look JUST at the technical problems with JUST handgun ammo:
1) Lead bullets. Gee, where you gonna mark those? The tail end will be eaten up by ignition, the sides by the lands/grooves, the front by target impact. Which leaves? Ooops. Lead bullets are a common form of cheap practice ammo and also used for hunting (hardcasts).
2) FMJ. Many of these use a lead-exposed base - can't engrave that. The front? What if it hits something hard and wipes the number?
3) Frangibles, as mentioned, forget it. This includes the "clean air green ammo" for use in indoor ranges for strict EPA airborn lead and other heavy metal standards.
Only "total metal jacket" types and any JHP that covers the base (Gold Dot, etc) is even partially compatible with this tech.
It gets better:
DATABASE PROBLEMS!
Holy crap! You're going to set up a database at DOJ HQ that will track every box of ammo to every buyer at every shop!?
That cost issue alone will kill this thing deader'n'Elvis.
Then you've got range theft (or just mixup) of spent shells. Shells in some calibers, esp. low-pressure stuff like 38Spl, 44Spl, 45LC, etc last a LONG time - 10+ reloadings are common when we're talking about practice-grade (or CASS/SAS) performance levels...and they'll often go through multiple hands.
Shooting ranges sweep up the spent cases and either reload them on-site (selling the results in baggies at the front desk) or use a local reloading house to provide cheap range fodder. Given their sale at ranges, this stuff accounts for an ungodly amount of the total practice fodder market and none of the reloaders involved can afford this kind of tech.
I could go on for miles but if Arnold wouldn't sign SB1152 (ammo registration) he's guaranteed to choke on this crap.
Let's look JUST at the technical problems with JUST handgun ammo:
1) Lead bullets. Gee, where you gonna mark those? The tail end will be eaten up by ignition, the sides by the lands/grooves, the front by target impact. Which leaves? Ooops. Lead bullets are a common form of cheap practice ammo and also used for hunting (hardcasts).
2) FMJ. Many of these use a lead-exposed base - can't engrave that. The front? What if it hits something hard and wipes the number?
3) Frangibles, as mentioned, forget it. This includes the "clean air green ammo" for use in indoor ranges for strict EPA airborn lead and other heavy metal standards.
Only "total metal jacket" types and any JHP that covers the base (Gold Dot, etc) is even partially compatible with this tech.
It gets better:
DATABASE PROBLEMS!
Holy crap! You're going to set up a database at DOJ HQ that will track every box of ammo to every buyer at every shop!?
That cost issue alone will kill this thing deader'n'Elvis.
Then you've got range theft (or just mixup) of spent shells. Shells in some calibers, esp. low-pressure stuff like 38Spl, 44Spl, 45LC, etc last a LONG time - 10+ reloadings are common when we're talking about practice-grade (or CASS/SAS) performance levels...and they'll often go through multiple hands.
Shooting ranges sweep up the spent cases and either reload them on-site (selling the results in baggies at the front desk) or use a local reloading house to provide cheap range fodder. Given their sale at ranges, this stuff accounts for an ungodly amount of the total practice fodder market and none of the reloaders involved can afford this kind of tech.
I could go on for miles but if Arnold wouldn't sign SB1152 (ammo registration) he's guaranteed to choke on this crap.
Waitone
Member
First off, Elvis ain't dead!
Second, since when does technical reality bother people like Lockyer? These people are psych majors, philosophy majors, and polysci types. These people can create their own technical reality.
Second, since when does technical reality bother people like Lockyer? These people are psych majors, philosophy majors, and polysci types. These people can create their own technical reality.
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