(Long Winded) Thoughts on Magnums, Guns, and Random

[MagnumDweeb]

Mind you a disclaimer. I live in Florida, we are not an open carry state but a concealed carry shall issue permit state. For this I think my views on the .357 magnum have been shaded. Don’t get me wrong, I’ll always carry a .357 magnum in either a Rossi 462(so long as it is made), Ruger Sp101(got the 3 1/16”, want the 2” version), but in anything larger I don’t think I’ll be too great a fan. If I lived in an open carry state I’d probably get one of the newly produced 6”, 8 shot 627s if I could confirm they could handle a steady diet of .357 magnum 158 grains at 1250-1400fps for a long period of time.
I’m not saying the .357 magnum isn’t a great workhorse that’ll be around for next few hundred years or longer(assuming humanity and liberty are still around). I just think as the technologies behind metallurgy and ammunition improve, other calibers will in time surpass the .357 magnum. I’ve been in a quandary quite lately, ‘do I get a Ruger GP100 4”’ ‘do I get a .454 Casull’ ‘do I get a 627 or 628[have had a few opportunities to get one for less than $400 in great condition’ ‘do I get another 1911 so I can shoot .460 Rowland.’ In the midst of all this I’ve done the research on calibers and performance. Now mind you I qualify ‘magnum performance’ where you push a 142 grain round at 1200fps or higher. Just to list Corbon I think is sufficient:

PowR’Ball
.357 Magnum, 100-grain, 1450 fps, 467 ftlbs energy, 4 inch barrel( I can’t imagine the performance out of a Ruger Sp101 3” be any less than 1300 fps)
http://www.dakotaammo.net/Glaser-PowRBall/357-Mag-100gr-PowRBall/PB357100-20/600/Product

10mm, 135-grain, 1400 fps, 588 ftlbs energy, 4.6 inch barrel(I’m thinking the Glock 20, I’ve got two and love them, with this I think you get magnum performance with a trade of weight for velocity)
http://www.dakotaammo.net/Glaser-PowRBall/10mm-Auto-135gr-PowRBall/PB10135-20/600/Product

.45 Auto, 165-grain, 1225 fps, 550ftlbs energy, 5 inch barrel(I’m thinking any 1911 that the folks behind the .460 Rowland think is a good choice could handle this ammo)
http://www.dakotaammo.net/Glaser-PowRBall/45-Auto-165gr-PowRBall/PB45165-20/600/Product

.40 S&W, 135-grain, 1325 fps, 526 ftlbs energy, 4 inch barrel(I’m thinking the Glock 23 would make a nice pistol for this ammo)
http://www.dakotaammo.net/Glaser-PowRBall/40-SW-135gr-PowRBall/PB40135-20/600/Product

9mm, 100 grain, 1475 fps, 483 ftlbs energy, 4 inch barrel (I’m thinking the Glock 19, I’ve shot it out of my Taurus PT 92 and love it, double taps are a breeze)
http://www.dakotaammo.net/Glaser-PowRBall/9mm-Luger-Plus-P-100gr-PowRBall/PB09100-20/600/Product

So on the point of the PowR’Ball ammo the .357 magnum and 9mm seem on par following the idea of light and fast like with my Tokarovs and the 7.62x25. I haven’t had a chance to test any of this ammo in jugs but hope to in the next few months soon as I can find another property to shoot on in Central Florida. I really like the .45 auto, at 165 grain and 1225 fps, with a sturdy .45 like my Ruger P345 or 1911 that can handle the .460 Rowland, I think you get performance on par with that of the midly(I think light is 1150fps-1200fps with a 158 grain, hot is 158-180 grain at 1300fps to 1450 fps) loaded .357 magnum. Gets the right mix of velocity, weight, meaning good penetration and energy dump and possibly good expansion. The .40 S&W don’t seem to be too far behind in performance likewise. I’ve just ordered some for my Glock 23 to see how it handles.

Corbon Self-defense JHP

9mm Plus P 125 grains, 1250 fps, 4 inch barrel
http://www.dakotaammo.net/Self-Defe...ORBON-Self-Defense-JHP/SD09125-20/100/Product

.357 Magnum 110 grains, 1500fps, 4 inch barrel
http://www.dakotaammo.net/Self-Defe...RBON-Self-Defense-JHP/SD357110-20/100/Product

.357 Magnum 140 grains, 1400fps, 4 inch barrel
http://www.dakotaammo.net/Self-Defe...RBON-Self-Defense-JHP/SD357140-20/100/Product

.460 Rowland 185 grains, 1425fps, 5.5 inch barrel
http://www.dakotaammo.net/Self-Defe...RBON-Self-Defense-JHP/SD460185-20/100/Product

.44 Rem Magnum, 165 grains, 1300fps, 4 inch barrel(probably wouldn’t lose much in a 3” I’d think and give that hotter than .44 spcl but not punishing like true magnum performance I'd think some of us would like)
http://www.dakotaammo.net/Self-Defe...RBON-Self-Defense-JHP/SD44M165-20/100/Product

.45 Auto, 185 grains, 1150 fps, 5 inch barrel (the velocity loss from the 165 grain, makes me think this is a good slug slammer, for good expansion and penetration, but not over penetration)
http://www.dakotaammo.net/Self-Defe...ORBON-Self-Defense-JHP/SD45185-20/100/Product

10mm, 150 grain, 1325 fps, 4.6 inches (I’m thinking for the Glock 20, with this I think the point of a semi-auto .357 magnum is supplanted, with this one I think the .357 magnum is inferior)
http://www.dakotaammo.net/Self-Defe...ORBON-Self-Defense-JHP/SD10150-20/100/Product

Here the .357 magnum meets ‘Magnum’ expectations as I think it should. The .460 Rowland gets the heavy hitting .357 Magnum of old I think, you can get the conversion for the 1911(not all makes, but Springfield and Taurus are allowed as I understand it). For the light and fast crowd there is the .357 magnum 110 grain that hits 1500 fps, I do like the option. Then there is the 9mm 125 grain that gets to 1250fps for those who likes the idea of fast and light in a high capacity platform in a compact semi-auto.
The technology has come to make the .357 magnum greater in some applications, but also help to make other calibers match it or supplant it in other platforms. To surpass .357 magnum performance I’d elect the 10mm when it comes to a matter of capacity but the 140 grain .357 magnum in a Sp101 3” would be a nice nasty little package, .460 Rowland for high capacity and magnum performance. On a side note .44 Remington Magnum, the 165 grain 1300fps makes for a nice and practical SD round.

These were just some meandering thoughts of mine. I don’t want to keep buying guns to scratch each of my itches. What I’ve got for my NRA Pistol Instructor classes I’ll keep and add to as time and the success of the little gig grows(putting stakes in the ground for an office front for a small business that has grown successfully beyond my expectations, so if there’s extra space to partition I might get an FFL) and good used firearms show up that are deals. I’m looking to specialize and streamline my concealed carry/ home defense options. So as to be an eventual master of some calibers than just a jack of trade of a bunch.

I’m looking to keep my Glock 20s and get a little better when it comes to shooting on the move(I get to practice on a private property), maybe finally get into competitions once I get some more money coming in and I can order 5,000 rounds on par with what I would use at the matches and for SD situations. Maybe retire my Ruger P345 once I get an FFL and go with a Springfield 1911 GI plain jane that I’d only add a ambidextrous grip to and a Crimson Trace laser grip. Also once things have better settled and another small operation I have going grows, get a 2” Ruger Sp101, get it with the spurless hammer and crimson trace laser grip. Keep the SP101 3”. Get another Glock 23(maybe a third gen.) besides the one I have for my classes, for those situations for where the 1911 or Glock 20 can’t be carried in a IWB holster but the Glock 23 can, I think the Glock 29 would be too small a package for the performance I want to shoot it reliably. Maybe get a S&W 629 3” once I get around to it. With all this in consideration I might only get a Ruger GP100 4” for my classes. If I could get a 686 7 shot at a good deal (98%+ for less than $450) that could be sent to a gunsmith to have it converted to an 8 shot, add a crimson trace laser grip and get a spurless hammer on it. I’ll keep shooting 9mm for my classes just to stay proficient as an instructor, there are too many other 10+ round platforms to use it for SD and in my mind an SD situation should be one where you are good enough to hit what you are aiming at with the first shot, at worst the second, and follow it up with at least two quick double taps, to carry more than five rounds is good, to need more than five is a worry.

Now I know plenty will say as I have read before, ‘don’t buy a bunch of low quality junk, if you are going to spend all that get a few quality pieces instead,’ but I’m not of that school of thought. I’m hard on what I own, I keep it working right, but they don’t stay pretty long. Pretty guns are a wasted on me. I’d like a S&W 28 4” but it’d sit in my safe collecting dust of little value to me. When it comes to rifles I’ll surely collect(should the fortunes allow) plenty of milsurp, FALs, and ARs in .223 and hopefully a quality 7.62x39 with time. Somehow collecting tons of rifles I’ll never shoot seems okay with but handguns I don’t know. With being an instructor I can justify used good deal handguns because my students will benefit from being able to shoot them as well as having an instructor who can shoot them proficiently, but for myself as a ‘shooter’ and an instructor I want some guns I can master. I don’t know, maybe this is just another random moment of thought for nothing but I like where it’s going.

 

[NMGonzo]

Sell everything but one.

 

[oldgoat46]

One thought about the 357 GP 100 with the hottest ammo you can buy (buffalo bore is great) ready, here goes......Home invaders wearing body armor. Capish?

 

[TexasBill]

I guess it's a fancy gun by your standards, but I would have a S&W Model 27 6-shot if I really wanted a revolver with which I could stretch the envelope. Back in my handloading days, it was the big N-frame Smith that was first to fire the hot rounds.

 

[orionengnr]

With all due respect, you are on the wrong track.
--357 Magnum, 100-grain,
--10mm, 135-grain,
--.45 Auto, 165-grain
--.40 S&W, 135-grain
--9mm, 100 grain

In general terms, light-for-caliber rounds look far better on paper than they perform in the real world.
Once again, in general, stick with good SD rounds in 125-158 gr for .357, 180-ish for 10mm, 230 for .45acp, 160-180 for 40S&W, 115-147 for 9mm.

 

[oldfool]

just some sidenote thoughts re: 357s being "shaded", etc.

it's not the round, it's the gun
it's the gun that can shoot 38 wadcutter, 38sp, 38+P, and 357 mag
(and one than more bullet weight and style in at least three of those four, no reloading equipment required)

357 already meets or exceeds what most people can handle well;
it already pushes the envelope, for most folks, on how much felt recoil and muzzle blast they can competently handle, even moreso when fired out of CCW size revolvers
"shootability" counts at least as much, if not moreso, than terminal ballistics
it just maybe counts as much as round count

for those who can handle more power, there have been plenty of heftier choices available for either revolver or pistol for a long time now

but for practical versatility, the 357 revolver is real tough to match
which is why I do not think it is going to fade away, not as long as civilians own handguns; with a 357 revolver, irrespective of frame size and barrel length, you get to find your own "zone"
anything else that could do all that would just be a 357 clone by some newly invented "label"

make mine 6" k-frames w/ 38+P and j-frame snubbies w/ 38sp

 

[dom1104]

my brain hurts. this is a ramble. Cant read it it has no point. Its like a diary of a conflicted ... I dont even know.

sheesh.

 

[Mark F]

my brain hurts. this is a ramble. Cant read it it has no point. Its like a diary of a conflicted ... I dont even know.

sheesh.

.357 good...

There is medication available.

 

[NMGonzo]

.44 is better

 

[JTQ]

.40 S&W, 135-grain, 1325 fps, 526 ftlbs energy, 4 inch barrel(I’m thinking the Glock 23 would make a nice pistol for this ammo)

I wouldn't shoot overly hot rounds in a Glock chambered in .40S&W. There is no pistol I know of more associated with "kabooms" than Glock's chambered in .40S&W.

 

[fireside44]

I just think as the technologies behind metallurgy and ammunition improve, other calibers will in time surpass the .357 magnum.

Like .44 special you mean?

 

[FoMoGo]

.44 is better

Fully agreed.


Jim

 

[Buck Snort]

Orionengnr wrote: "In general terms, light-for-caliber rounds look far better on paper than they perform in the real world."

I'll stake my life on a 165 gr. Cor Bon JHP exiting my 4" 629 at 1300 fps.

 

[7.62 Nato]

165gr. Cor-Bon JHP from my 5" 1911.

 

[Snubster]

It is a ramble, but thanks for sharing.

I enjoy hearing your thought process.

 

[S&Wfan]

It is a ramble, but a lot of good thinking going on about the "specs" of various things.

The next steps? Go shoot some real bowling pin matches with your various ka-boomers and learn which calibers can be shot with the fastest times yet also drive those heavy, lead-filled bowling pins of that 10 yard distant table in the fastest, most efficient manner.

A 9mm won't cut it. A .40 is ok, but the recoil is snappy/punchy for what you get.

The .357 Magnum is excellent with decent weight bullets, as is the .45ACP.

The 10mm and .44 Magnum, IMHO, cross the threshold between table-cleaning efficiency and speed. It is hard NOT to get beat when your barrel is pointing at the sky much longer between rounds!!!

There's no secret why the .357 and .45ACP do so well for self-defense at speed. They are the best compromise at doing both. I prefer the firm PUSH recoil envelope of the .45ACP over the sting/snap recoil envelope of a .357 or 10 mm. My split times bear this out with electronic timers and match times . . . thus the .45ACP is my favorite defensive caliber.


LIGHT BULLETS . . .
Hmmmm . . . light bullets are faster and exit the barrel faster . . . thus changing the impact point of the bullet LOWER. If your gun's sights aren't regulated for the light bullets, you are gonna shoot low. Not good. Shot placement is most important, speed is a close second.

Thus, in all the G23 pistols I've shot, I've chosen 155 and/or 165 grain ammo (depending on the specimen), for that's what shoots best POA. To heck with light or heavy . . . give me a round that's gonna go where I intend it to go, whether hitting the tiny sweet spot of a bowling pin . . . or cleanly shooting spent .22LR cartridges off a log 10 yards away . . . or consistently sailing coke cans at 75 yards.

Worry less about the specs of the ammo and guns . . . and more about the details of where your specimen guns hit with the best ammo match for that gun.

Food for thought.

Again . . . get out and compete, and learn what WORKS!