Longevity of Ti framed guns?

[willbrink]

Is there some estimation of the longevity of titanium-framed guns? Companies like Caspian must have a great deal of experience and feedback from people shooting titanium guns and I wonder if they find a shorter average lifespan of these frames or do they last essentially forever if well cared for like any other all metal 1911? Aluminum frames seem to clearly have a limited life span and the scandium aluminum guns have probably not been around long enough for definitive “real world” feedback, but Ti framed guns, in particular Ti framed 1911s, have been around a long time now.

There are always estimated life spans based on the known properties of a material, estimated stress levels, etc that often don’t reflect real world experiences. For example, when the polymer framed guns came out I recall all manner of estimations they would have a limited life span, but we have Glocks out there with 6 figure round counts through them without the frames failing.

So, what’s the general consensus on the longevity of Ti frames (mostly interested in 1911 specifically, but for sake of conversation any gun will do here) as far as estimated and real world?

I have a Ti framed Caspian Commander 1911 I shoot with all the time with thousands of rnds through it without apparent issues (e.g. obvious accelerated wear patterns, cracks, etc) and am curious about this. I have been given the advice by some that one should carry their Ti gun and shoot their all steal 1911 to reduce wear and increase lifespan of the Ti frame. Personally, I didn’t spend all that $$$ to have a safe queen gun and not shoot what I carry.

Thoughts and opinions? I am interested to hear from both the metallurgist expert type as well as the “I have put 1,398,098,398,00 rnds through my Ti 1911 and these people don’t have a clue” opinions.

 

[General Geoff]

Depending on the specific titanium alloy used, the metal may actually get stronger as you heat cycle it by putting lots of rounds through it, similar to annealing. As I understand it, titanium has a nearly infinite fatigue life, and should outlast even stainless steel, due to being utterly impervious to corrosion.

 

[willbrink]

Well that's good to hear. Many seem to be under the impression Ti will wear faster.

 

[JesseL]

I suspect titanium should hold up just fine, as long as it metallurgical properties are properly accounted for. If you got the wrong combination of alloys, surface treatments, or lubricant you could end up with a nasty galling problem - but that goes for any metal.

 

[willbrink]

My experience with that to date is, standard gun oils dont prevent galling and a good gun grease (Tetra, etc.) keeps the slide to frame fit slick and smooth. Ti framed guns do gall and like to be well lubed. So far, thats the major drawback I have found with it.

 

[jeepmor]

Entirely depends on the alloy, I'm reading Mark's Standard Handbook for Mechanical Engineering and the yield strength varies from 15ksi to 160ksi depending on the alloy. The mechanical properties of titanium and its alloys, particularly commercially pure titanium, depend markedly on the content of fractional percentages of C, O, N, H and Fe.

If you know which titanium alloy they use, I can look up the strengths in the charts for you. It's gotta be somewhere in the middle. The 15ksi type is too soft and would wear quick, and the 160ksi type would likely be to brittle and not handle the impact well. According to the tables, the lower strength material can take a greater V-notch Charpy impact (std test) than the higher yield strength materials.

The high strength materials have some content of chromium (2-11% by weight) in them and takes the strength above and beyond 130ksi. These titaniums also have greater than 1% iron content, where as most other alloys are on the order of .25% iron or less.

There are four alloys listed that are heat treatable and double the strength of the finished product. 20ksi to 40ksi in heat treated condition.

Does that clear it up for you? Didn't me, but it's straight out of the 2 1/2" thick engineering bible.

 

[distra]

Very timely thread as I have a Caspian Ti commander coming shortly. Any special lube to use? I use Miltec on my Sc framed commander.

 

[Zak Smith]

Considering that "some" Lightweight Commanders (aluminum) last quite long, and Ti is much stronger than Al in addition to its superior fatigue life properties, I wouldn't worry about cracking or strength. Galling needs to be prevented, but it seems like proper slide/frame fitting and proper lube use can avoid this. I didn't see any problems on my Ti commander. Used Tetra grease.

-z