Looked at a Nagant today

[Duckster]

I saw a Nagant at the Gun Shop today. I think it was a 9430, It is the long version without the bayonet on it. The sights go out to 2,000 meters so I thought that was neat. What caught my attention is that it is only about $150 and $5 for box of ammo. The gun store guys say it is a very accurate rifle. Does anybody have experience with this rifle? I would think it would be a real cheap and fun shooter. I was also told it is about as powerful a a 30-06, Is this true?
Any input would be appreciated.

 

[lee n. field]

http://www.mosinnagant.net/

http://www.russian-mosin-nagant.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosin-Nagant

Widely available and cheap. My particular one (an M38 carbine) is hideously innacurate. I'm quite tempted to get another.

 

[iamkris]

It's a 91/30. Do a search, there should be about 4,702,257 threads on the Mosin-Nagant at THR alone.

$150 is about 2X what you can buy them for on the net but then again, you get to see the rifle if you buy it from a shop if that is important to you. http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Russian_Model_91_30_7_62x54R_Mosin_Nagant.html

2000 meters...remember the time frame. Turn of the century armies still believed in volley fire...the sight markings have no relationship to what you will actually be able to shoot.

Very accurate? Remember, this guy is trying to sell something to someone that obviously doesn't know much about the product. Military accurate? OK, sure but "very" might be a stretch. Mind you, there are very accurate MN's out there (my 91/30 and M44 don't qualify but my M39 does)...just take what he says with a grain of salt.

The ammo used to be $1.88 a box on line (Czech silvertip) but it is closer to $3-4 a box now. You can still buy it in bulk (e.g,. 400 rounds or so) for $0.08 - $0.10 a round ($5 a box is $0.25 a round). http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Hungarian_7.62x54RH_147grn_Light_Ball.html

The 7.62x54R is in the 7.62x51mm to .30-06 class power range.

 

[George S.]

I have a 1931 Izhevsk 91/30 with a hex receiver. I picked it up at the local Big 5 Sporting Goods store a couple years ago for $79.95. In today's paper, they are on sale for $75.

Overall it's in good condition but the bore was pretty dark at first. After a number of cleaning sessions followed by a couple hundred rounds, the bore is much brighter and the rifling is now distinct although not as sharp as it was 75 years ago.

My rifle will shoot 8" groups at 200 yards using Czech 147gr silvertip ammo and that is just about what was expected of it by the Soviet military. The average Russian peasant conscript soldier most likely knew nothing about guns and some probably couldn't even read much less shoot.

I can still find milsurp ammo for about a dime per round, but some of the better ammo (Russian, Hungarian) does cost about twice that.

What's interesting about these rifles (besides the fact that the original design was from the late 1800's) is that they are stil in use today by some Afghan and Pakistani tribes fighting against (or for) the Taliban and various factions.

I just picked up a 1944 M38 and it's also in decent shape. I just now have to find a nice M44 to round out the cheap end of the Mosins.

 

[bartsimpson123844]

Please do not refer to the rifle as a "Nagant". The Nagant is a revolver that was designed by the Nagant brothers. Refer to it as the Mosin or Mosin Nagant because Leon Nagant didn't play a very big part in the design of the rifle, but Sergei Mosin did. $150 is too much, IMHO. I bought mine for $100 at a gun show and I thought I had overpaid. I would look for a cheaper one if you can find one. Also, as others have mentioned, ammo is SUPER cheap. $35 for 400 rounds: http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.../1387?osCsid=57df3d8eed665be8d03cd7d739d06329

 

[jem375]

I bought a mn 91/30 and a M44 at a gun show. The 91/30 was so bad that I gave it away at my gun club after shooting it. I still have the M44 and haven't shot it much, but even after the low rounds through it, no doubt will sell it. There are just too many better military surplus rifles out there to buy.

 

[bvchurch]

I'll chime in here with some more cents.

Anyways, I have three Mosin Nagant rifles, (and these were my first rifles that I had ever bought, or even shot). An M38 and an M44 (about the same gun, but the M44 has a bayonet on it) and an M91/30. I bought them because I know the history behind them, but after shooting them a few times they are fun to shoot. Accuracy, for an UN-experienced shooter (yes I mean I have no experience shooting before these guns , excluding pellet), is pretty decent. At 25 yards I was hitting a tad high (but at 25 yards this is good). At 100 yards I would often within a 6-8" range, even had one hit the corner of a 2" box. Being an unexperienced shooter, it may be me, but I would suspect that a good range would be 4 to 6" at 100 yards. I paid just under $100 per rifle, which is fine with me consider that I got all the accessories and what not. Basically my thing is, I pull the trigger, it goes bang, bullet flies, it works. My philosophy is to just continue working on accuracy.

Pros: Military rifle, works well, cheap, and has a lot of history behind it.
Cons: Recoil can be a bit much (I recommend a limbsaver), may be covered in cosmoline, and the trigger pull is strange. (According to my father he thought the trigger pull required a person to pull too far back).

EDIT: I should have mentioned that all my rifles still use the original open sights.

 

[rugerdude]

The mosin nagant is an okay gun. I love mine because it's cheap to shoot, and it's quite pretty now that I've refinished the stock. I was not impressed with accuraccy, but I really want to take it out again and seriously see what it can do because I think I can do better now.

However, in the 150 dollar range, you can get a few other things instead:

Very nice yugo SKS (mine outshot my mosin 91/30......easily)

A very nice yugo mauser (cheap to shoot like a mosin, but higher quality IMHO)

A Lee Enfield No.4Mk.1 (not cheap to shoot, but it was probably the greatest battle rifle of the 2nd world war, certainly the best bolt-action)

A Swiss K-31 (I was finally convinced that I should buy one after a fellow here offered to buy it off of me if I didn't like it, they seriously have an unmatched reputation for acuraccy and quality)

The list goes on, but as far as quality, the mosin falls short of all of these listed.

Now, if you have the cash to spend and you can't order from the net or go to a gunshow, I would say get it. The mosin isn't a bad rifle, and it's an incredible value with lots of history.

 

[MCSandNW]

M-91 Accuracy

Dusckster,

Accuracy for the M91/30 can be very good, but usually only if you handload and then only if you cheat...

Most of the Eastern Block ammo is corrosive and therefore most M-91 bores are...well...pretty nasty. Mine was so rough I wondered if it would ever do anything and also was badly worn near the muzzle (I suspect from use of a steel cleaning rod). But the rifling was still all there and actually pretty deep in the first 2/3 of the barrel. I cut the barrel back to 20" and sperterized it into a rather heavy but still useful carbine sporter then tried to get it to shoot.

I started with the same 168gr .308 Match HPs I use in my M-1. Can you say "keyhole"? 6-8" groups at 100yds with clearly unstabalized bullets and almost gave up before I really got started.

Then I learned the secret to M-91 accuracy. Soviet .30 cal is .310", not .308" like in the USA. Add the loss of material from corrosion& cleaning and American 30 cal bullets simplty don't engage the rifling! Now I get 1.5" groups at 200 yards using Speer 180 gr .311" Spitzers depite a truely ugly looking bore.

Start low and work up with care, but the the tight-fitting bullets really pay off for acuracy.

WARNING: Most loading data was developed in M-91s with .308 bullets. The top loads almost certainly are NOT safe with the .311 bullet. My most accurate load is 41 grains of H4895 and while it shows no sign of overpressue, I'm pretty sure that's about at high as would be wise. There were definite pressure indications (somewhat flattened primer and a bit of tightness on opening the bolt) at 43 grains on a hot Texas afternoon when I was developing the loads.

 

[U.S.SFC_RET]

MCSandNW I am very inclined to believe just what you are saying about the venerable 91/30. I bore slugged mine and came out with about 311/ 312 and after I post this thread I am going to mike some of those Czech silvertips I just bought and see how close they are to that bore. If they are not close I will pull those bullets and empty the powder.

 

[U.S.SFC_RET]

I pulled a bullet out of a Czech silvertip, measured at the widest point and come up with just over .310. That should be good enough for my 91/30's bore.

 

[busy_squirrel]

My M38 did this at about 90 feet last Saturday. Not great, but definately fun. Top most hole is entry.

 

[dasmi]

Good gun, but don't pay that much unless it's absolutely perfect.

 

[Spiggy]

picked up mine from a fellow forumite for $150

'38 Tula arsenal, round reciever... best looking and working nagant I've ever seen. Bore is shiny and rifling is thick. Serials were forcematched though . Plus side, the bayonet was matched too, and FITS!


open sights and modern factory ammo, I can still pick a fight with a 8x8 steel plate at 150 yards

 

[mrmeval]

I picked up an M44 for 74+12S&H, the beater 91/30s go for a bit less, the better quality ones can go higher. 150 is a bit high but if it's in very fine looking shape with a good to bright bore and you have a good relationship with the store it would be a good deal. The ammo is a bit high but it's local.

Aimsurplus (and a bunch of others have it) has
ammo at 300rd Can: $29.95ea, it's corrosive but that's easy enough to clean.
They also have hunting ammo 20rd box: $8.95 for imported igman non-corrosive.

If there is no one else that has them you'd have to order one and have it shipped to a cooperative FFL and pay for the gun+S&H+FFL fee. It can add 30 or more to the gun. I bought mine on my collectors license and saved a bit. Actually enough to buy more.

 

[Ash]

Consider that if he doesn't have a C&R, the price becomes more reasonable.

$69.00 for the rifle.
$20.00 for shipping.
$15 for hand pick best one out of 5
$25 for transfer.
That's $130.

He would pay $20 more than that. Okay, so 20 bucks is 20 bucks, but it's still not a reaming by any means. Besides, he gets a much better hand pick choice than the average mail order guy gets. And, he gets to support the local dealer.

Ash

 

[iamkris]

$69.00 for the rifle.
$20.00 for shipping.
$15 for hand pick best one out of 5
$25 for transfer.
That's $130.

$69 for the rifle
AIM is usually much closer to $10-15 for shipping
$0 for hand pick...I've seen no discernable difference between hand pick and non-hand pick in the 25+ milsurps I've had
$25 for the transfer

That's $105

Then again, whether it is $20 or $45, many people will place a lot of value on being able to actually see the rifle...so you are right.

 

[mrmeval]

Even though I have been very lucky with mail ordering rifles I would not be opposed to paying extra for actually handling and looking at one. I've heard too many bad stories and I do support local stores.