Looking at getting a more accurate .223, suggestions?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Swampcrawler;

I guess I'm going to be the odd man out here, and stay within your guidelines :D.

They've already been mentioned, but I'd think either the CZ527 or the Tikka would fill the bill for you quite nicely. I've got the CZ in .223 and am very well satisfied with it. I also find it to be far more enjoyable to shoot, and clean, than an AR. I have several Tikka's, but none in .223. Nonetheless, they are all very accurate guns that have served me well over many years.

I'm with you in that I simply have no taste for modern Savages, and so what? It's your choice and your money. If you don't want to spend it on something with a goofy looking barrel nut that breaks, has a trigger in a goofy place, a bolt that allows crud to fall into the magazine well, and a bolt head that the military despises, it's your right to spend it in other places.

900F
 
If you don't want to spend it on something with a goofy looking barrel nut that breaks, has a trigger in a goofy place, a bolt that allows crud to fall into the magazine well, and a bolt head that the military despises, it's your right to spend it in other places
Click to expand...

You're describing something other than my Savage. It has none of those things. First it doesn't have a magazine. It's a single shot. And the barrel bolt is far less pronounced when combined with a bull barrel. I don't even know what you mean about the trigger being in a weird place. I have a 1990 110. I don't see any such thing on it. But here's the Savage I'm currently talking about. I think you'll see the barrel nut does not stick out at all. The image is from Buds web site. I'm pretty sure they will like the advertising here.

Oh as for the military they have been so locked into Remingtons than they aren't likely to like much else. And although I thought seriously about buying a Remington when I bought my Savage I wouldn't blink an eye about getting the Savage now. Remington quality is down as we all know. Sure the military has the means to get their rifles up to snuff but a Savage comes that way out of the box.

43536.jpg
 
Fella's;

Like I said, you spend your money how you want to. But I'll bet a nickel that the example set for us is just a bit beyond the budget guideline the O.P. set. If that 30" barrel wasn't a Savage original, I know it's beyond.

900F
 
If that 30" barrel wasn't a Savage original, I know it's beyond.
Click to expand...

Savage sells rifles with 30" barrels. New price is above the listed budget but used prices get pretty close.

Here's the rifle that was probably mentioned:

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/12FTR

MSRP is over $1500 but out the door prices are around $1250. That's close to the same out the door price of my 12 LRPV. I got mine for just over $900 slightly used. And I found this used LRPV for $778. That's well within the budget mentioned.

It isn't exactly easy to find one of these rifles used but they do exist. I bought one that probably had less than 10 rounds through it. That or someone took the entire rifle apart and cleaned it to make it look brand new. Considering some of the nooks and crannies are made by cast metal that just wasn't what happened. The rifle was very lightly shot. And I bought mine a few years ago now. I'm sure a person could find a used model for under $800 with some effort.

I don't think you'll find another $800 rifle that will shoot as well either. Let's talk about this for a minute. It's a .308 they're using but the .223 does very well also. It just doesn't do it at 1000 yards as well. I read reports of 300 yard groups that are .5 MOA or smaller consistently. My rifle shoots that well pretty much all the time. The wind starts to become a big factor past 300 yards but that's just going to happen with any .223 rilfle. With practice it can be controlled pretty well. I probably average 4"-5" groups at 500 yards with my best group being under 1" at that distance. If you can show me a rifle that will shoot better than that I'll sell my Savage and buy it ASAP.

There certainly are great hunting rifles in that price range. But there are reasons varmint rifles are made the way they are. The heavier nature of the rifles makes nervous twitching almost a non-factor. The rifle practically shoots by itself IMO. I just point it where I want it to shoot and it goes there. I'm not bragging abot my shooting capbility I'm talking about a rifle that makes me look like I'm a lot better shooter than I am. Yes they are heavy but they aren't designed to be carried around unless you're in A1 physical condition They're made to set up with a shooting table and a chair and have at a p-dog town or whatever. They will shoot extremely well for that.
 
I've got 3 AR(s), 3 CZ(s), and 3 Savages.

I'll bet on the Savage 12(s) or LRPV(s) all day long.

For the OP(s) price range, I'd pick a 12 BVSS.
 
CeeZee

I recently cut a M12 precision 30 inch savage barrel (308 Win) down and threaded the muzzle for a suppressor. All my work revolves being concentric with the bore. I will dial a barrel in coaxially to within .0001"

Look at the end of this thread protector and tell me how far off the bore is to the OD of the barrel.


IMG_3411_zpsy2cm7ptk.jpg

Holes can not be bored perfectly straight, they all will have some deflection. Usually a few thousandths.
This savage barrel has a huge deflection.

BTW it's .065" off
 
Hey no firearm company is perfect. There are problems with all of them sometimes.
 
I'm with you in that I simply have no taste for modern Savages, and so what? It's your choice and your money. If you don't want to spend it on something with a goofy looking barrel nut that breaks, has a trigger in a goofy place, a bolt that allows crud to fall into the magazine well, and a bolt head that the military despises, it's your right to spend it in other places.
Click to expand...

The world is full of people with different opinions. Many don't like Tikka plastic bolt shrouds. I don't like them, because they are cheap and below my expectations, but it shouldn't impact accuracy.

What I find interesting is that some items listed in this screed, are actually items that contribute to Savage's accuracy.

The Barrel Nut, I originally found lacking in terms of aesthetics too. Now I love them. What they do is give Savage several competitive advantages. First, it allows for the rifles to easily and accurately set with minimal headspace, keeping the bullet and cartridge better aligned with the bore. It seriously reduces machining cost, which allows Savage to invest more in a decent barrel. One of the best advantages is that it allows the owner to easily swap to a new, often Custom barrel, without machining and a gunsmith.

I'd LOVE to read a link to why the 'military despises' the Savage bolt, or hear an explanation of the military's embrace of accuracy. For most purposes, a few MOA is good enough for the military. Hathcock and Kyle are specialized users, using equipment well beyond this budget.

The Savage floating bolthead is actually an advantage. You don't need to lap the lugs to on a Savage. Floating bolt head almost always gives very high lug to receiver contact. Remy will probably be one lug barely touching. So in stock form, Savage will take much more pressure. In theory a well machined solid bolt, like a Remington is stronger. In what they churn out, I'll take the Savage. This probably only impacts a suicidal reloader.

barrel nut that breaks, has a trigger in a goofy place, a bolt that allows crud to fall into the magazine well
Click to expand...

This is just completely without merit, and biased.

If you want to knock a Savage, the valid points are utilitarian fit/finish, aesthetics, and fewer aftermarket triggers.

I can cast those same valid points against the Tikka.

Personally, I've no interest in the Tikkas, but the classic three lug Sakos are sweet...and well beyond the OP's price range.
 
CZ 527 Varmint, 223, 1/9" twist, laminate (or bedded kevlar) stock. On a good day, holds under 1 inch at 200 yards with 69 gr Sierra HPBT Match over 25.3 Varget. Single set trigger, if that makes a difference. For a bolt action 223, factory, accurate out of the box, hard to beat. Mine is modified with a flush mount trigger plate, 3 round mag, and with a single shot loading mag adaptor (good idea if you want to reload, and seat bullets to COL longer than the factory mag with the Mauser action). Some potential problems with bolt handle clearance for scopes with larger rear bells. Mine wears a Sightron 3-12X42 mm with no problems. Probably the most accurate rifle I own, and I own several. Thought hard about a Savage. The model I would have wanted (Stainless Steel, Weather Warrior, bedded composite stock, removable mag, and AccuTrigger) was out of stock everywhere I looked. Ended up with a CZ-527 instead, and glad I did.

P1000536_1.jpg

PS: All CZ's have a cold, hammer forged steel barrels, not bored barrels. While hammer-forged barrels are not potentially as good as a high-end bored rifle barrel on, the one hand, you will never get a "bad" hammer forged steel barrel, on the other. For the money, bolt action CZ rifles are very hard to beat. I have the 527 Varmint laminate in .223, 550 Varmint, Kevlar in 308, and the 550 FS in 6.5x55 SE. All are extremely accurate and fun to shoot.
 
Last edited:
Three photos of a REAL Mod 12 Precision Barrel...including the muzzle, breech, and Savage ID

IMG_0012.jpg
IMG_0011.jpg

IMG_0010.jpg

I don't know what you had there dubbleA...but I'm not buying it for a minute.
 
I do like the single-set trigger.
Click to expand...

I have the same trigger on my CZ 453. It's a very nice trigger. So is the Target AccuTrigger that comes on some Savages. It's adjustable down to a few oz's. Very nice trigger too. Overall I prefer the Savage trigger.

BTW I thought the barrel mentioned was cut down and threaded by the poster and that's when he noticed the bore was off. Whether it's possible to make the bore off kilter by doing a cut down and threading the barrel is beyond my knowledge.
 
BTW I thought the barrel mentioned was cut down and threaded by the poster and that's when he noticed the bore was off.
Click to expand...

If you look at the section dubbleA posted, where he said:

...I recently cut a M12 precision 30 inch savage barrel (308 Win) down and threaded the muzzle for a suppressor. ...
Click to expand...

I question it, for several reasons:

- First, no Model 12 I've ever seen, or is currently listed, had a thread protector, or more reasonably a brake, on the muzzle. (From the factory).

- If he also cut down the barrel, at the breech, there are several problems with that section. First: it isn't threaded on the outside. Second: it isn't beveled like the ones in my pics. Third: Look at what would have to be the throat, in relation to his fingers. The throat would be more than .308. Fourth: Look at the color of the steel, and the finishing, in relation to an actual Model 12 Precision barrel.

So I conclude that he made an honest mistake, concluding that some 'Bubba' aftermarket barrel section, or third party thread protector, was a stock Savage item.

Whether it's possible to make the bore off kilter by doing a cut down and threading the barrel is beyond my knowledge.
Click to expand...

I don't believe such an operation would do that. You would likely have to turn the barrel off-axis.

Overall I prefer the Savage trigger.
Click to expand...
I'm not a blind Savage Kool-Aid drinker. I think they're one of the most accurate guns out there in their price range...primarily for their barrels.

The Accutrigger does its job. I personally prefer the CZ Set trigger, and on my Savages, have installed the aftermarket Rifle Basix. Not because it doesn't do the job, but just due to personal dislike of the blade in the trigger. It isn't a personal preference, and the Rifle Basix trigger can get down to a few Oz. safely.
 
Fella's;

My word, such impassioned rhetoric concerning Savage's faults! Completely without merit also! Hmmmm. Well, since my word isn't good enough, we'll just have to go to the facts. Better that way anyhow, the only person that can turn a viewpoint that embedded is the holder of it.

So, do google "Savage Barrel Lock Nut Cracked", I believe that one will direct you to the "Graybeard Outdoors" site. Accounts of the phenomenom exist on other sites as well, a thorough search will find those examples. Google "Cracked barrel nut" there are several images to be seen there. It may not be common, but to deny that it doesn't happen is disingenuous at best, and does no favor to the consumer wanting a unbiased evaluation of Savage's guns.

The military sees the interchangeable bolt face as a weak point. The connection simply isn't as strong as a single piece bolt where the head and body are integral. Under their use conditions it's a valid point. For Joe Average, maybe not so much, but the potential is certainly there. Simply google "Floating bolt head failure" to see images of failures.

900F
 
Last edited:
The throat would be more than .308.
Click to expand...

Some 12's are made in .308. I assumed that was what he was talking about.

BTW is it possible to cut down a barrel, add the threads, and put your own thread protector? I don't know what actually happened. I'm just guessing. This is the kind of thing I would take to my gunsmith to do. I don't know about such things as far as carrying them out goes.
 
Fella's;

We're speaking of SAVAGE cracked barrel nuts, not AR platforms. The Savage examples do exist. Trying to sideslip the issue is without merit.

900F
 
Trying to sideslip the issue is without merit.
Click to expand...

Sure thing. Happens all the time. Right. That pic of the one, old production 110, cracked nut proves it. Click the link next to that ONE pic, and read the Savageshooters.com thread tied to it, where a poster notes they never heard of such an even in his 69 years.

And obviously, a solid shaft, behind the actual lugs, is key, not lug engagement, Right CB900F? Is that so a suicidal handloader can pound open an action from hot loads or what?

And the military...their goals are the OP's goals...for accuracy? That is why the opt for AK(s), chrome-lined barrels, and FMJ bullets, eh?

Great points. Full of merit.
 
Last edited:
Fella's;

There's more than one image of Savage cracked barrel nuts. There's more than one account of the same on more than one website. Is it an everyday occurrence? No it isn't. Does it happen often enough to acknowledge that it's a concern? Well, I think so, and I'd think somebody looking at possibly buying a Savage would want to know about it.

Hmmm, I don't recall my mentioning chrome-lined barrels, but it must be relevant, right? I don't recall mentioning the AK platform either, and still can't figure out how the Kalashnikov relates to a discussion concerning Savages. Must be my tunnel vision.

900F
 
Hmmm, I don't recall my mentioning chrome-lined barrels, but it must be relevant, right? I don't recall mentioning the AK platform either, and still can't figure out how the Kalashnikov relates to a discussion concerning Savages. Must be my tunnel vision.
Click to expand...

It was a reference to your claim....

...and a bolt head that the military despises, ...
Click to expand...

As if a floating bolt head is was a negative to accuracy, (it isn't), or that accuracy is a military concern.

Regardless CB900F, I'm going to bow out of debating your opinions. I obviously don't embrace them.
 
Cee Zee;

Where to find the images has been stated above. Images & more images will get you there. And now I'm outta here.

900F
 
If you think "do a search" qualifies as proof for your argument think again. No one is going to do your homework for you but you can claim your dog ate it and just run for the hills I guess. Why bother with actual proof when a wild goose chase will do? You talk about one site and then "maybe" another then say "a thorough search". You do the search. That's how this works. We're not here to make your arguments for you. You think we're going to sift through 10,000 pages to find those few examples? Dream on.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

P
  • Locked
Looking for a .243 everything gun
Replies
11
Views
681
Sunray
S
A
  • Locked
best value .223 bolt action rifle combo? separate scope? bolt or semi-auto?
Replies
5
Views
2K
Jackal
Jackal
L
  • Locked
Looking for Compact Bolt Action - suggestions?
2
Replies
27
Views
6K
Samgotit
S
C
  • Locked
so i am getting a new rifle and have some questions
Replies
12
Views
416
chains1240
C
P
  • Locked
260 rem or 7mm-08
2
Replies
31
Views
2K
dullh
D
Back
Top