Looking at getting a more accurate .223, suggestions?

[dubbleA]

Three photos of a REAL Mod 12 Precision Barrel...including the muzzle, breech, and Savage ID






I don't know what you had there dubbleA...but I'm not buying it for a minute.

RugerOldArmy, I can assure with my life it's a Savage Precision M12 barrel from a single shot target action I cut down.



I did find some pics. Do you think this is a REAL savage barrel?

(HINT...you can see the "warning" scroll mark ahead of the threads.


Does the muzzle look familiar?


This is the section where the barrel was cut. I have a trained I and recognized immediately the bore was non concentric

Quote:
...I recently cut a M12 precision 30 inch savage barrel (308 Win) down and threaded the muzzle for a suppressor. ...

I question it, for several reasons:

- First, no Model 12 I've ever seen, or is currently listed, had a thread protector, or more reasonably a brake, on the muzzle. (From the factory).

- If he also cut down the barrel, at the breech, there are several problems with that section. First: it isn't threaded on the outside. Second: it isn't beveled like the ones in my pics. Third: Look at what would have to be the throat, in relation to his fingers. The throat would be more than .308. Fourth: Look at the color of the steel, and the finishing, in relation to an actual Model 12 Precision barrel.

So I conclude that he made an honest mistake, concluding that some 'Bubba' aftermarket barrel section, or third party thread protector, was a stock Savage item.

Reading comprehension goes along way. Read my original post again s l o w l y and try to understand what I typed.

Hint...this guy got it!

BTW I thought the barrel mentioned was cut down and threaded by the poster and that's when he noticed the bore was off.

 

[RugerOldArmy]

I'll grant you this dubbleA, those last pics do look like a real Model 12 barrel.

So you're saying that you threaded the barrel and machined a thread protector from a chunk of the muzzle of that barrel, and then noticed it was that far off?

All my work revolves being concentric with the bore. I will dial a barrel in coaxially to within .0001

I'm a bit skeptical, since the heavy barreled Savages shoot well in my experience, and I've shot in BR and Varminter matches, and have been a part time RO, for many years. Most of the 12's I've seen are 1/2 MOA or a tad better, with factory barrels.

But hey, I'm sure a bad barrel gets drilled now and again, and it gets through QA. Remember when Sako/Tikka had that bad batch of stainless barrels?

 

[Cee Zee]

Just for the record it's possible the bore could have been off and the rifle could have still shot accurately. The trick is getting a straight line and not just a bore that is perfectly in the middle of the barrel. Or at least it seems that way to me. But what do I know. I'm no gunsmith. I just know "my" Savage 12 shoots fabulous.

 

[farmerboy78]

I too have a savage 12, savage 12 vlp dbm with a 1-9" twist that I had rechambered to 22 middlestead. ..the thing just flat out shoots with a 75gr berger vld...have taken many deer over 300yds with it that fall dead right there...my furthest was 386yds and the deer just dropped right down with a double lung hit...I have 3 savages total; the 12 vlp, 10 pc .308, and a 12 lrp 6.5Creedmoor and all are 1/2 moa or better...best factory rifle made IMHO!

 

[Cee Zee]

best factory rifle made IMHO

I really like my Savages but the best made??? I don't go that far. There are some really nice (but expensive" guns out there for sale. Let's talk Accuracy International, Sako, etc.. But I can't afford those and for what I pay my Savages are the best. Well actually my CZ might be a little better come to think of it. My 12 is a great rifle but the 110 and MkIIBTV are very good but have their problems. I won't be selling either but still. I also have an old Stevens that is a really nice rifle. It's from the 1950's.

 

[RugerOldArmy]

I really like my Savages but the best made??? I don't go that far. There are some really nice (but expensive" guns out there for sale. Let's talk Accuracy International, Sako, etc.. But I can't afford those and for what I pay my Savages are the best. Well actually my CZ might be a little better come to think of it. My 12 is a great rifle but the 110 and MkIIBTV are very good but have their problems. I won't be selling either but still. I also have an old Stevens that is a really nice rifle. It's from the 1950's.

I'm of a very similar opinion. What I like about the Savages are the Heavy-Barreled 10(s)/(12)s, and the bolt and barrel design. I have a Classic in .270, that original came with standard sporter barrel (replaced) that was only a fair shooter, but decent for a hunting rifles.

On CZ's, I've loved my .308 550 Varmint, and my .22 452 Varmint (bedded, with the brooks trigger.) They're well built guns, and shoot better than 1/2 moa. I did replace the plastic magazines 452 with steel ones, and still hope to get the forged trigger guard, instead of the factory stamped one, then it will be 'perfect' in my mind. Short of an Anshutz, the 452/453s are always my recommendation for a bolt .22.

I also have a 550 FS in 9.3x62 and a 527 Varmint in .223 Rem These have been decent guns. The 9.3x62 will likely only be a MOA gun, even if I fully bed it. The 527, even with the 1-9" twist, still prefers 40-50Gr bullets (maybe .66 - .75 MOA, and is only MOA with 69 SMKs).

I look at CZ as a gun with quality construction, and a ticket in their wood lottery. Not the accuracy equal of a heavy barreled Savage...especially the ones with the three bolt target actions.

AI? That's on an entirely different level.

 

[RugerOldArmy]

Let's talk Accuracy International, Sako, etc.

AI is just a wonderful platform.

Sakos, from years gone by (pre-Berretta), were very nice guns.

When I think Tikka/Sako now, I associate the exploding stainless kaboom barrels (both share a common barrel line/factory), the cheapo Tikka plastic trigger guard, the chinzy plastic magazines, and the plastic bolt shrouds. None of these things, do I want any part of.

 

[d2wing]

An awful lot of shooters really like the Tikka T3. One of the best guns you can buy at any price. I see the above poster doesn't like them but he only speaks for himself. Otherwise I would go Remington. I have always disliked Savage since a bought one and it was defective and ugly.

 

[RugerOldArmy]

An awful lot of shooters really like the Tikka T3. One of the best guns you can buy at any price. I see the above poster doesn't like them but he only speaks for himself. Otherwise I would go Remington. I have always disliked Savage since a bought one and it was defective and ugly.

That is true. Tikka/Sako has a following. I also stated my opinion, speaking for myself.

This thread was about finding an accurate rifle, at a price point, where what matters really, is the expectations of holes downrange.

Are there good Sakos? There were. In my opinion, that started in 1961, and ended in 1972. Look at the old Finnbear L61(s), especially the Deluxe models. They had better barrels then, too. Now compare them to the T3.

One of the best guns you can buy at any price.

That is a very strong statement. It may speak to brand loyalty, which is admirable. But in terms of accuracy, take the best Sako makes now, say a TRG-22.

You can get a rifle from Kelby, that will run circles around the TRG for accuracy.

http://www.kelbly.com/rifles.html

...and there are others out there, that will do the same. Would your really rather have a TRG? Or a Blaser, Kelby, or an AI?

Do you really think the average T3, would outshoot a Model 12 Savage? And if you want more accuracy, how much of an investment will it take to put a good custom barrel on the Sako? How much for the Savage? Put a Shilen or a Pac-Nor on a Savage (say $400), and you might have a rifle that shoots in the .2(s).

And as I posted above, there are aspects I don't like about Savages too! For the money, how they shoot, usually isn't one of those aspects. Will a Savage ever be a Kelby, nope. But you can start with the target actions, and get something that shoots almost as well, relatively cheaply.

 

[RugerOldArmy]

One of the best guns you can buy at any price.

One more option for you, on that. Pick the best Sako, a Deluxe, and compare it to one of these. All aspects. Aesthetics, Accuracy, etc.

http://cooperfirearms.com/

Like the legendary Model 70, the best days of Sako (and their budget alternative Tikka), are long past.

 

[Cee Zee]

Like the legendary Model 70, the best days of Sako (and their budget alternative Tikka), are long past.

A guy at the gun club used to beat me every time with a Sako rimfire rifle. I was shooting a Savage MkIIBTV and I was shooting pretty well at that time. Not long after that I started winning competitions but I never did beat that Sako. I shot 4 rounds through that Savage and at 50 yards the group measured .073". I tried to complete a 5 shot group with different ammo because I ran out. I ended up shooting a .3" or something like that. But that rifle put 4 bullets into a hole that looks like one bullet made it. And that Sako was beating me every time. Maybe it was a lot older than I thought but it seems like the owner said it was just a few years old at the time. It should be less than 10 years old still. Maybe it's only 5 years old. It was about that long ago I was shooting against that rifle.

 

[Peakbagger46]

Savage 16

200 yards with 69g SMK reloads.

 

[Peakbagger46]

And 500 yards, fighting the wind and 3-9 scope.

 

[Cee Zee]

And 500 yards, fighting the wind and 3-9 scope

Yep. That's about what my 12 will do too. I don't have photos of my groups at that distance because you have to shut the range down for 20 minutes to get down to where the targets are. I generally shoot what's left by others. I shoot a lot of clays, pop cans, targets someone else has left. One day a person painted a target that was about 5" across on a rock they had stood up. The rock was only about an inch thick. I shot every bit of the paint off that rock by knocking chips off the rock. I had to hit it about 10 times to get all the paint off. It took me about 15 rounds to do it. The last few were harder because there wasn't much paint left.